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Re: aspirin and serotonin, and also opiods avid abulia

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 13, 2003, at 7:16:11

In reply to aspirin and serotonin, and also opiods, posted by avid abulia on July 12, 2003, at 21:47:05

> Hey, you guys are mostly a lot smarter than me here, but i've never seen this posted here, so i thought that perhaps i would tell you guys that salicylates (including aspirin) are inducers of tryptophan hydroxylase, the rate-limiting factor in the production of serotonin. It is occasionally successful in treating Tourette's syndrome, for that reason, and one well-respected expert on Tourette's, Dr. David Comings, published in his authoritative tome "Tourette's Syndrome and Human Behaviour" that his first recommendation to all new patients is to try taking two aspirin in the morning to see if that controls symptoms.

That's fascinating. I didn't know that. Thanks.

> So far as opiods go--i'm not a fan myself, i think mainly because i've used them for very severe pain (basilar migraines) in the past, but some people do quite well on them, and i'm not one to knock another's drug. And, incidentally, chronic (but not acute) morphine ingestation has been shown to induce tryptophan hydroxlyase as well... but, sticking to more practically relevant
> info here (i can just see it... "Doc, I'm depressed... I hear morphine might do me some good, though." "Uh-huh... well, I'm not that kind of doctor. You might try that old croaker down the road with a forged medical license, though.")... well, tramadol (a codeine analog with low affinity for mu-opiod receptors and serotonin and noradrenaline reuptake inhibitory properties) has recently been shown in several clinically trials in several different countries to be an effective, rapid-onset antidepressant for some people, and... I think it was in Australia, if i remember right... it is currently going through the approval process to treat depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and Tourette's syndrome. Unlike morphine, tramadol has very low abuse potential, and shows no immuno-suppressive effects. In fact, it actually enhances natural killer cell function.
>
> ~AA

About tramadol....

Yes, I've seen some reports of these trials, but I've never found anyone who used tramadol, and had a lasting benefit.

The rapid-onset antidepressant effect is quite startling. Hours. But use it every day, and the antidepressant effect diminishes, perhaps over two weeks. That's my experience, and the experience of everyone I've ever talked to, who tried it.

Bottom line, it may serve as an augmentative, or a "tweaker", but only for short-term benefit. That's anecdotal, of course, but I've never found anyone who could achieve long-term benefit from tramadol, buprenorphine, or any other semi-synthetic opiate antidepressants.

Lar

 

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poster:Larry Hoover thread:239530
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030708/msgs/241396.html