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Re: Effexor, Prozac, Zoloft...HELP!

Posted by jtc on July 1, 2003, at 7:52:58

In reply to Re: Effexor, Prozac, Zoloft...HELP! jtc, posted by zinya on June 30, 2003, at 21:48:14

> hi JTC,
> gosh, i'm just back to our line here and i can't believe so much time has lapsed since i last wrote and wonder what that itself says about where i'm at with this drug that i was so unaware of how many days had gone without touching bases here. Hm
> more on that in a bit or another post.
> I'm so moved by your situation, jtc. I was in a very emotionally and occasionally physically abusive marriage myself, eons ago now, but it is etched enough that i can't help projecting and feeling the trauma of your angst. But i also don't want to presume anything given that of course every situation is unique. (e.g., I had migraines the whole last 5 years of my marriage; they stopped about a month after i left. But i don't say this in any way to encourage separation; as you'll see in a minute i root for trying other things.)
> I saw that Cher had responded to you so I've also read her post first before writing and I quite agree with what she said, and will say a bit more in responding to her...
> But a few other reactions: Do you ever get more than the 5-1/2 hrs sleep a night you referred to? Over time, it seems that that could be a deficit that is making you never feel truly "fresh" -- and i realize, believe me, that even if you think that might be a factor, it doesn't mean there's a solution. Some people are truly great and fine on 5 hrs a night -- and i myself used to be for long stretches at least -- but i also know that some can convince themselves they're okay but in fact that just isn't enough sleep to not be taking a toll that might not be obvious but is there...
> Second, and if you've read me before i realize i might start sounding like a chamber of commerce for counselors or something cuz i keep making this pitch, but I sure hope you're seeing a marriage counselor that maybe you didn't mention ??? Your situation cries out for at least giving that a try -- and if your shrink hasn't even suggested that, i'd think less of your shrink if i were you (excuse the gratuitous "extra" :)) ... My husband refused to see a shrink until it was too late and i'd reached the point that i just left. Then he was not only willing but begging to try therapy and i did but it really was too late (although actually i think we simply were never a good pairing to begin with so it really didn't matter). But i would understand if that was your situation - i have married friends and know just generally too that it's almost always a man's reaction to drag his heels about thinking counseling/therapy would provide any answers. But i'd say it's a must, if i dare to speak so boldly without knowing you or your situation. Your kids need for you both to do it, and it's clearly a need for both, not just one of you, to undertake. My own preference would always be for a therapy situation where you occasionally meet the therapist together but also meet individually as well -- and it's important that you both at least respect if not outright like the counselor. I urge you to consider this if you haven't already.
> And part of it is that i get the sense that you are (as many women do) taking this all on as your problem that drugs alone will deal with when you have real communication traumas here on a daily basis that need urgent attention, it seems to me. And without shame or blame. NONE of us get marital communication training. Everyone (or almost) goes into marriage with expectations that are mostly unrealizable. And the result is old tapes of one's own childhood instincts about what spouses do, based largely on one's own parents' patterns -- which are always totally different than your spouse's parents' patterns were and thus lead to mismatched old tapes each of you operate on, largely unconsciously. And i think we all need and can benefit from outside guidance and perspective in order to try to figure out when half the time a husband is yelling at a wife, half of what he's angry about is old stuff from his own chldhood surfacing and turning "normal" disagreement into the over-the-top kind of stuff. And same for wives with husbands. Actually, my view is that in almost any relationship, when someone really Loses it, flies off the handle, "overreacts" to situations with excess anger or rage or disrespectful response (or "treating the other like a child"), that it's almost always cuz of something in their own childhood that is getting tapped. And that half the battle is taking the time and with guidance from a therapist to at least recognize those flash points as being largely about old stuff... and how it can sabotage a current dynamic that doesn't merit and won't survive such strain. (The ole 6 people enter a marriage bed "joke")
> I hope i'm not overreacting here myself to your situation, but this is what I hear and offer as my instinctive response to what you've written.
> Wishing you well, sending big hugs of warm support, and hoping I have overstepped,
> zinya
> p.s. One other suggestion: I think it is underestimated how important it is to LISTEN to one's children. If you haven't done this already -- or even if you have, doing it often is good too, I would encourage you to ask your 9 yr old to tell you her anxieties, what exactly she fears might happen, how she reacts when she hears the discord or sees you upset. Let her talk for as long as she can and wants without interrupting her or explaining or defending until she "runs out of things to say" and then first tell her back what you hear her saying, to acknowledge that you HEAR her so she feels heard -- that, imo, is almost as important as anything -- and THEN, only THEN, respond to her concerns and give her your explanations and tell her YOUR feelings (about what she has said), etc. I think this is an almost guaranteed way of helping kids know that they can tell you their fears without getting 'cut off' or shot shrift, etc. and kids need it -- to feel heard -- SO much more than adults ever realize or make time for. It's not something to feel guilty about, but to try to improve as soon and much as possible.
> (more 2 cents' worth from yours truly :))
> z

Hi Zinya,
I truly appreciate your input. I have suggested counseling for my husband and I but he thinks I am the one who needs to go to counseling and not him so I in turn get depressed and feel stuck in the situation and then have to start taking meds again. I am on klonopin right now, 1 mg a day. My psychiatrist suggested to just take the klonopin for a while rather than going back on antidepressant. I just stopped effexor about 3 months ago. Anyway my husband says that he has always "babied" me and he is just not going to do it anymore. He says that I need to stand up to him about things. It is almost as if he wants to make me mad but then he says he loves me and our girls very much. He just thinks there is nothing wrong with what he is doing. When his parents used to be married his father used to treat his mother the same way he is treating me, teasing her, etc. He is a lot like his mother and his father both. I have known them all a very long time, about 25 years. He is my only boyfriend, the only person I have ever been with or dated. We have too much of a history together to let it end. I am just going to have to try to ignore some things he says to me. That is what my psychiatrist has told me also, that I let things people say or do bother me too much. As for my daughter, I always talk to her at length about her feelings which is the opposite of what my husband does. He thinks I should not go on and on with her about things. He just pushes under the rug for later, and we all know what can happen later on if things are not dealt with. So I do not listen to him when he is trying to tell me how to talk to our daughter. I just use my best judgment which may not be the best thing but it is all that I know to do. I think my husband is dealing with a lot of childhood stuff, as I am also, but he will sit and tell me that his childhood has nothing to do with it. His parents were married for 35 years and then split up. My husband is 39 soon to be 40 and he just will not talk to me about anything that his mother or father are doing (such as their lives) because he thinks I am going to tell everyone and talk about them. We do not even live near them. They are in Florida and we are in North Carolina. He just does not trust me and I do not trust him either sometimes. I think we do need to go counseling. I am going to suggest that again to him but I am almost sure of what he will say, that I need to go and not him. It really is a money thing with him where he thinks it is just a waste of money and that the counselor is just trying to get you to keep coming back to get your money. Perhaps I will go when I can afford it. I think our real problem is money. We are in a house that we cannot really afford. He says we can afford it but we don't have finances to do anything else. He says he is happy to be in a nice house and I do like our neighborhood but it is getting to the point that I do not like the house anymore because of the money problems. I really don't like to say this about my husband but he is selfish. We were going to go the Florida Keys for a family vacation but he decided it was too expensive to stay there, we were only going for two nights and visiting family in Palm Beach, but the next week he bought a bought a 600.00 racing bike because he has gotten interested in triathlons which is great but if I had purchased something that was 600.00 it would have been a BIG problem. He said he would enjoy his bike so much more than spending 300.00 on a two night in the Florida Keys. If that does not sound selfish then I don't know what does. I better go before I get any more angrier. But anyway, sorry to keep rambling on and on. Thanks so much for your advice and I will think about it. I wish the best for you and keep me posted...

p.s. I think I am going to try to go back to school because if I had a better job then I would not have to ask him for money. He thinks I just spend money like crazy but it is all for my girls (clothes, books, etc..) I also thinks he likes having control over me with the money situation.

Also to Cher, Thanks so much for your advice. It helps me so much to read your postings and I wish the best for you also. Keep up the exercise, I have been running about 5-7 miles a week because I think I am going to try to do a 5K run in September in Wilmington, NC. Anyway take care and keep me posted, jtc




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