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Re: allowing discussions of illicit drugs (LONG!) » Maxime

Posted by lil' jimi on June 25, 2003, at 11:24:18

In reply to Re: allowing discussion illicit drugs, posted by Maxime on June 24, 2003, at 17:47:53

hi Max,

it has been very hard on me that you (continue to) repudiate the notion of permitting the discussion of things of which we disapprove.

when, especially as a professional, your level of vehemence would belie the compassion you feel for your clients.

IF
we were to imagine the possibility that our fellow poster, Craig,
could be
(if only for this discussion’s sake)
one of your clients,
who might be so misguided,
despite your best efforts,
and
that he were to come here
and
ask the question Craig asked,
.... ....
THEN would you really want us to ignore his plight
... ... his peril
... ... and just tell him to go away?
... ... ... would you suggest that he be blocked by Dr. Bob?

... ... can the fact that such discussion will make you mad be more important than the real threat to another person’s health and safety?
... ... ... can we allow our annoyance at another’s misguidance to disable our compassion?

... ... ... you have freely expressed how angry this has made you and i continue to be concerned that i not make you mad(der) .. ... i have respect for you continuing to post on this thread ... ... because i have not been able to express myself when i have been upset by this kind of situation where folks get wound up here ... ...

.... ... i have also tried to look inside myself to see if i could find anything that makes me feel the kind of mad you are ... ...
.... i surprised myself ... ...
... i have remembered one thing that does make me feel the way you feel ... ...

you have written:
> Fine. Do you know what I do all day? I work with youths with drug addiction problems. If they are lucky enough to have any family who cares about them, I work with the families as well.
> That is what I do. That is what I have my Phd in. That is what I have devoted my life to.
>
> I am losing "clients" all the time to drug ODs. Last week a young woman had taken some LSD and thought she could fly. She is now dead. I see young adults who are brain damaged from the amount of drugs they have taken.
>
> So yes, I have a problem when people ask what will happen if I take this with that. There are over 17,000 drug related deaths each year in the U.S.
>
> And I do believe that it should be out in the open. I do believe we should be discussing the problem and making it as public as possible. I don't think here is place.
>
> If you are taking illegal drugs, then I don't think your biggest worry should be what if I take it with an MAOI or SSRI etc. I do not see the logic in that line of thinking.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Max

me again:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>>>>> TOBACCO !! <<<<< (!!!!!!!!!!!!! !)!
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

i hate tobacco and i seethe when i observe tobacco smokers, cigarette butts on the ground, smell of ashtrays ... ... i despise the tobacco industry!!

... ... (i make the hypothetical exception of native americans’ uses for ceremonial purposes.) ... ...

i hate tobacco, especially cigarette smoking, because my father-in-law died from 2 forms of lung cancer which are only associated with smoking ... ... i will not go into how much i loved my wife’s dad because i choose not to cry today ... ... however he had quit smoking 20 Years before he developed cancer ... my beloved Father Bravo suffered 2 ½ years of torturous treatments (...”to save his life” ...) that destroyed him .. ... ... one afternoon my wife called me at work to come to his house ... ... when i got there i stood by his bed, held his hand and watched as he slowly suffocated to death ...

... ... AND THERE WAS NOTHING I COULD DO !!!!!!!

i miss him every day ....

Max, 400,000 americans die every year from tobacco related diseases ... ... i tell anyone who will listen (no one does!) that if a foreign power were to kill 400,000 americans a year ... ....we would go to WAR! ... ... ... and i would sign up ... ... we all would!

(and to add to KimberlyDi’s poingnant point, 50,000 americans die each year from alcohol-related auto accidents ... ... i lost both of my parents one year ago in an accident ... ... ... my grief is worsened by my suspicion the other driver had been drinking ... ... reaction time degraded ... ... broadsided and destroyed my folks’ lincoln on a clear bright day ... ... )

so, Max, i can feel the way you do .... ... i can be very angry.... .... i AM very angry ... ... i see how you feel ... ... in fact, these traumas i’ve mentioned are why i take lexapro everyday for my depression ...

but if i were to post here that i wanted to know about the effects of some, say, crystal meth, on my lexapro ... ... it’s going to make you too angry for you to let me get the feedback and guidance i would need to help me save myself from my ignorance .... is that right?

you wrote:
> So yes, I have a problem when people ask what will happen if I take this with that. There are over 17,000 drug related deaths each year in the U.S.

yet if by asking we could save one of those 17,000, should we not allow the asking and answering?

you wrote:
> And I do believe that it should be out in the open. I do believe we should be discussing the problem and making it as public as possible. I don't think here is place.

i have seen you offer no reason why, especially here, this should not be the place ... ... why not? ...can it be just because it offends you?

... ( i am grateful that Dr. Bob, in his excellent wisdom, sees his way clear to allow posts here about illegal drugs' effects ..... ... and i thank him for his welcomed post on that worthy policy: THANKS, DR. BOB! .. again...)

you wrote:
> If you are taking illegal drugs, then I don't think your biggest worry should be what if I take it with an MAOI or SSRI etc. I do not see the logic in that line of thinking.

... .. okay, try this: ... if we are blessed to have these illegal drug users get worried about ANYTHING, then we are morally obligated to use any such concerns as leverage to provide them the guidance to try to protect them from self-destruction .... .... at least that's a line of thinking we can use, right?

... ... ... you have defied me by implying that illegal drug users have any biggest worries other than getting more drugs OR anything like logic in anything like a line of anything like thinking .. .. ... i find such premises ... ... extraordinarily unlikely ... ...

... ... is it reasonable on your part to expect that illegal drug users are going to be using any logic in their “line” of thinking ?
... ... isn’t the addictive nature of these drugs inherently anti-logical
.... you know, it’s unreasonable to expect unreasonable people to be reasonable.

actually, Max, you have managed to perplex me in such a way that i have discovered an insight into my own depression ... ... that i am still unresolved (and very angry) about my dad-in-law’s death as much as i am about my parents’ deaths ... ... no one else has been able to afford me this insight ... .... and for as important as this is to me, i THANK you ... ... very much ... ... you have helped me and i do appreciate it.

god bless you, Max ... i admire your personal commitment in the war against human self-destruction.

... ... sorry this is so long ... .. . i got carried away.

THANKS !!!! and TAKE CARE !!!!
~ jim


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poster:lil' jimi thread:228754
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030624/msgs/236945.html