Posted by Bob on July 11, 2002, at 10:43:38
In reply to Re: Real Depression, posted by cybercafe on July 11, 2002, at 1:08:05
> > I dont agree with you. I think most of the modern class antidepressants have a quite good side effect profile. What bothers me more is having to live in the "hell" of severe clinical depression. Thats ten times worse to me than living with some medication side effects.
-----The fact that, for you, the side effects don't bother you enough to stop the meds says nothing about other people. I've seen more than one article stating that antidepressants have worse side-effects than most prescription meds, save for maybe AIDS and chemo meds. That doesn't sound "good" to me.
-----> Yeah for sure there are no side effects so bad that I am willing to put up with severe depression for the rest of my life. And that includes movement disorders, .. or even growing a third eye... or if I found out meds took 20 years off my life.... (Discounting the existence of ECT,rTMS,MST, psychosurgery etc of course)...
-----You are talking about side effects that pose a significant and recognizable danger to physical health. I'm referring to side effects that reduce quality of life over the long term. Remember, I was trying to explain why I think people stop taking their meds, even when they're "working" so to speak.
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> However... I am sure that when people stop taking their meds they do not believe the symptoms are going to return. Or if they do -- they can't remember how serious they were -- just like when you're depressed it's difficult to remember the happy times in your life...
-----Yes, in a way I believe you are correct. I also think that what happens in many cases is, people start feeling better psychologically, and then they are left with mainly the side effects as problems in their life. They may have come to terms with the fact that they need some sort of med, but they figure there MUST be something better out there than what they're taking.
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> > Of course, there are a few drug side effects which are truly severe and unacceptable. Such as the EPS/TD movement disorders that atypical anti-psychotics can cause in depressives. Or blood sugar increases from Zyprexa or Seroquel that induces diabetes. Or MAOI hypertensive crisises. These are serious side effects to be avoided totally.
-----Again, you are referring to health destroying side effects, not quality of life side effects. How about chronic constipation, weight gain on the order of 10% or greater, reduced or eradicated libido and ability to orgasm, constant sweating, hypersomnia, tiredness and fatigue, apathy, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc?
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> Ummm... I would rather cut out aged cheeses from my diet then have no libido :)
-----Sounds like Parnate is working wonders for you. What if (and God forbid) it didn't work for you any longer, and you had to try Nardil, or the host of other antidepressants, where you would have to cut out aged cheeses (and other things also) yet you didn't have a libido and gained significant weight, and were dizzy and weak all the time?
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> > What I dont understand is people who think SSRI type side effects (weight gain, sexual dysfunction) are worse than living with the depression itself. I always come to the
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> ... I can't imagine that.... I think it's more likely they don't think their depression will come back.... now why severe bipolars, psychotic individuals, those with histories of suicide, etc have to dump all of their medication within a day or two... take extreme measures like flushing it down the toilet.... this just doesn't seem like a good idea to me
-----Well, it probably doesn't seem like a good idea because it isn't. However, one hallmark of mental illness is impaired judgement and irrationality. BTW, these diseases run the spectrum from minor disaffectation to full blown, "I'm going to commit suicide in the next 10 minutes" type depression. That's why many people aren't willing to put up with the way the meds make them feel. They have dysfunctionalities in their lives that they are trying to improve upon, but are not necessariy severely suicidal or physically incapacitated. Unfortunately, the same medecines are used for all conditions.
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> >conclusion that most of these sorts of individuals dont have very severe depression to make the decision to go off an anti-depressant for what I consider to be trivial side effects.
-----You may consider them trivial, but (if not most) don't. I don't hear very many people on an AD claiming that they love taking the drug and it is practically transparent for them. I just don't hear it. The side effects may seem trivial for you because if you don't take the med you know you will be facing suicide. Also you may be getting a pretty decent response from the meds. Many people don't.
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> Yep... ! Or to go take it even further... I have felt sorry for a lot of people who seemed to whine like they had serious problems... but when you offer them advice they just seem totally apathetic... like "yeah maybe i'll try that... or ... maybe i'll just do without medication... " DO WITHOUT MEDICATION?? ... the reason i'm on medication is because the only other option for me is suicide (or ECT etc etc)....
-----Yes, but that is not the case for everybody. Some people have mental problems that aren't necessarily causing suicidality, but are impairing their quality of life. It's a trade off that's as unique as the person taking the meds. No two illnesses are the same.
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> ... i just wish i had started Parnate sooner... i love this med :)
-----I'm glad to hear that med is working so well for you, and I hope it continues to help you.
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> .. that is why i am quite happy when i get a 20% response from a med... sure my life might still be in shambles... but at least i can go on ...
-----If you are happy with 20% response to meds, then you have obviously have given up on getting significantly better. I think the public expectation for mental health treatment is much, much higher than that. Progress has to be made.
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> > Oddly enough, I find my sex drive increases on antidepressants. What kills my sex drive is untreated severe depression.
-----I think having you sex drive increase on antidepressants definitely puts you in the minority.
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> ... this coming from another Parnate user of course :)
poster:Bob
thread:91928
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020709/msgs/112042.html