Posted by Fuscia on July 8, 2002, at 13:23:03
In reply to Re: Vitamin B's, TD, Milk Thistle, Coenzyme Q10 » Fuscia, posted by Kari on July 8, 2002, at 7:48:21
Hi Kari,
I'm glad you asked for I was pondering about some other actions of the B vitamins as well as acetycholine My mind goes too fast at times, but it is also a question and learning experience for me.
Firstly, not all of the B-vits are energizers. Some have a calming effect, such as inositol. Research has shown that high doses of inositol may help in the treatment of depression, obsessive-compulsive disorder, and anxiety disorders, without the side effects of prescription medicines. It also enhances REM sleep. My book here suggests 100 mg at bedtime. Large amounts of caffeine consumption may cause a shortage of inositol in the body.
Vitamin B 12 (cyanocobalmin) has also been shown to enhance sleep patterns, especially for those who fall asleep, with intermittent bouts of waking. It is also linked to the production of acetylcholine. Many of the mood disorder drugs have anticholinergic effects (depletion of acetylcholine) and can result in ticks, so B 12 would be a good idea in my mind to help counteract this by increasing acetylcholine. Constipation is another indicator of low acetylcholine.
It is best to take B 12 on an empty stomach, or better yet, take a sublingual form, which is a lozenge form that you allow to disolve under the tongue. I have KAL brand B-12 2000 mcg, lemon flavoured lozenges. I took one last night and I slept very well. Last few nights I haven't been sleeping as deeply.
Choline, one of the other B vits, is as its name implies, is a precursor to acetylcholine (made simply from choline and a two-carbon molecule called acetyl.)
Note: Choline is not to be used by people who are manic depressive, because choline (or any compound which is a precursor to acetylcholine, such as DMAE, lecithin) can deepen the depressive phase. In my book here, it does say that it is beneficial for disorders of the nervous system such as Parkinson's disease and tardive dyskinesia. Egg yolks is a good source of choline as well as legumes, meat, milk, and whole-grain cereals.
Vitamin B 5 (pantothenic acid), and vitamin B 1 are also essential for converting choline to acetylcholine.
Back to your question. I would suggest that you try Nutritional Yeast (I like the brand from TwinLabs for it tastes pretty good compared to others, and you only need 1 tablespoon mixed with liquid verses 3 tablespoons of other brands, especially of Brewer's Yeast.) This way you get all of the B vitamins in small amounts, plus amino acids. Then try adding a singular B vitamin that you think you might need and see how it goes. If you think you have low dopamine levels (Low D symptoms include: anxiety or depression, itching, weakness, obsessions worse, poor coordination, Parkinson's symptoms) then try 50mg of B 6. Or, try one of the above listed B vitamins, but only add them singularly, this way you can weed out any potential problems from any one type of vitamin B if one causes an increase in tics.
Here is something interesting: (http://www.priory.com/psych/ach.htm)Psychiatry On-Line
"Extrapyramidal symptoms induced by neuroleptic administration are believed to result from the same mechanism and the disturbance in balance between the striatal dopaminergic and cholinergic systems as a result of dopaminergic antagonism produced by neuroleptics is believed to be the cause of neuroleptic-induced EPS (Snyder et al, 1974). Thus, the treatment strategy utilized in the treatment of EPS is aimed towards restoring this imbalance."Since this is the case for you I would think your aim would be to find a balance between the two neurotransmitters acetylcholine and dopamine. How to do this through the use of supplements could probably be achieved, but you would have to experiment to see which works for you. I'd first try the Nutritional or Brewer's yeast first on its own taken for a week, then if you want try adding singular B 6, or the acetylcholine precursor choline with it's enhancers B 1 & B 5. I would try increasing acetylcholine first, but that is just my opinion. Since the yeast drinks are excellent sources of most of the amino acids, you would be getting an increase in dopamine as well as norepinephrine and serotonin. If you wanted to increase this even more, the singular amino acid L-tyrosine would be the choice as it is a precursor to dopamine and norepinephrine. It is suggested to take it on an empty stomach with a small amount of B6 and vitamin C to enhance absorption. I suggest folks take it for only two months, then discontinue for a month since singular amino acids are powerful substances, especially those that act as neurotransmitter precursors.
You might also try essential fatty acids for muscle rigidity and weakness. Black currant seed oil, flaxseed oil, primrose oil, and EPA from marine fish oil are all good sources. This is another supplement I take on occasion, which I take just prior to a meal. I have borage oil, primrose oil, flaxseed oil, and EPA/DHA efa's in our fridge.
I would also urge you to try one of the green drinks that are sold in most health food stores. You can also get them in tablet or capsule form. But these green drinks, which contain mostly barley grass or wheat grass, besides other vegie sources, are full of live enzymes that asist in practically all bodily functions, containing both digestive as well as metabolic enzymes. I keep mine in the fridge to keep the enzymes alive. Another good product is Infla-Zyme from American Biologics. You can order these from www.vitaminshoppe.com, and I think www.iHerb.com sells it as well. I didn't like Vitamin Shoppe brand barley green drink for it didn't dissolve very well in water and it has a strong flavour that takes some getting used to. Magma Plus by Green Foods is by far the best.
I hope this will help you if you do try it. Take care, Fuscia
poster:Fuscia
thread:111449
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020628/msgs/111751.html