Posted by Rick on February 8, 2002, at 20:10:36
In reply to Re: Provigil- took test drive of abuse potential- none » Rick, posted by IsoM on February 8, 2002, at 13:20:31
Interesting thoughts, IsoM. Some comments and questions:
>I really wish I could find more information, studies, case histories, etc on Provigil (modafinil) & Olmifon (adrafinil).
If you don't mind sharing this, what is your current regimen for adrafinil and any other meds you're taking? Can I correctly infer that your desire for more info on a med you've already used awhile is part of a quest for better treatment response? Or is this more along the lines of general self-education, safety concerns, adraf vs. modaf, back-pocket info, plain curiosity, or ???
>Currently, the other available stims all have rapid action effects within an hour or less of dosing. Both Ritalin & Dexedrine affects me like that.
Even though I only take Provigil in the a.m., it has psychotropic benefit all day long, with the sheer "user-controllable-wakefulness" component winding down a bit as evening approaches. But I can really feel amplified benefits within an hour of dosing, particularly if I didn't allow myself enough sleep the night before. It clearly depends on the person taking it, what disorder(s) you have, and what specific benefits you're seeking. If I were taking it as part of depression treatment, I'd imagine that it might start helping soon, but not immediately. Or perhaps it would have an immediate impact followed by quick poop-up and then a more gradual theraputic ramp-up.
>
> But with adrafinil (& modafinil-Provigil works similar), effects aren't noticed for a week or more, much like standard ADs in time of action. It's actions are different than the other stims, & PET scans confirm this too, showing different areas of the brain with increased metabolic activityI wouldn't be so quick to bucket them together, despite that fact that modafinil is the primary metabolite of adrafinil. Some people on this board who have taken both reported significant variation in how the two different meds make them feel. Adrafinil seems to have the edge among Psyco-Babblers, although I seem to be seeing more and more Provigil proponents like myself.
One thing I think people neglect in assessing whether Provigil served them well is whether it's taken as monotherapy (I have my doubts that this would be effective for my social phobia) or with other meds -- and if so, which ones. I can see Provgil being synergistic with some meds and working against others. Even though Provigil *may* reduce GABA in selected areas of the brain, for me it perfectly complements the Klonopin and Serzone for a more-rounded antianxiety effect. The specific benefits Provigil adds to my SP treament are startlingly tangible and identifiable. BTW, I've never tried Adrafinil.
>Manowar (Tim) also takes Provigil & can confirm the slow onset of benefits.Again, I'm sure it depends on both the person and what effect you're looking for. Recently I've been seeing quite a few reports and formal studies on immediate and strong wakefulness-inducing qualities of Provigil, e.g. with soldiers who need to stay on duty and alert all night. And I also note that Effexor can provide very rapid benefits for GAD, typically one week, while for depression it can take the typical two-four weeks or more for the benfits to really show. Different people -- > diferent theraputic needs -- > different parts of the brain that need to be "jolted" -- > different progression of neurological changes that need to occur -- > different length of onset
> I hyprothesise that the reason a person can sleep or not when taking Provigil, eat or not too, is because for me, at least, these drugs don't "feel" stimulating.
Provigil does feel stimulating to me, but in a gentle, working-in-the-background kind of way. Unlike you, my baseline condition is low-energy. And when I'm less energetic or just plain tired, even Klonopin lets some of my noticeabe somatic symtoms start creeping back, notably vocal tremor, facial rigidity, as well as brain-lock and loss of assertiveness. That's why Provigil adds so much to my treatment. Unlike other stimulating meds I've used it makes me feel "up" and confident without making me feel wired. Provigil helps me build a fortress against the lethargy and apathy that would otherwise make me more vulnerable to "opportunistic anxiety," if you will. I see one of Provigil's main roles as analagous to an immune-system booster that helps your body fight off opportunistic infections that try to make their presence known when your're physically or mentally susceptible. I don't want any "cold sores" of anxiety breaking through. (Guess I've milked THAT analogy for all it's worth!)
>I feel normal instead (but I do have narcolepsy & ADHD - that may account for how I feel with the med). I actually have a slightly better appetite with adrafinil, but then I lose interest in food when depressed & very little tastes good to me then. With adrafinil, my taste seems to return to normal. It doesn't increase energy for me as I'm high-energy (the hyper part of my ADHD) when I'm alert & awake, but adrafinil keeps me from feeling eternally sleepy. I would normally need something externally stimulating to perk me up & when it was finished, I'd again turn sleepy. Adrafinil keeps me perky so the energy part naturally comes into play.
Sounds like adrafinil is right for you.
> Rick, about the memory boosting power of Provigil - I think that effect takes a little while to work. For me, it's one of the last benefits to come into effect. I sure noticed a huge difference in short-term & working memory.Hmmm...as well as Provigil works for me, that last statement makes me think that maybe I *should* give adrafinil a trial run. On the other hand, I would imagine that it's the modafinil metabolite that provides any memory benefit, though. How long did your memory benefit take to surface?
>Perhaps if your short-term memory is already good, you may not notice much difference.
It's not. Not terrible, but hardly good.
>Give it time though.
I read that memory benefits start to appear after a few months. I've been taking Provigil over a year and a half. I'd be skeptical that any drug could really help age or med-caused memory lapse if I hadn't seen tangible benefit from selegiline.
Also, do you think that maybe your own memory problems might have represented a symptom of depression that has improved as you became less depressed -- vs. a direct adrafinil effect? That theory certainly doesn't seem to hold with my social anxiety, though. I don't know if social anxiety causes memory problems, beyond the obvious fact that it's hard to pay attention and consolidate a memory when you're too busy dwelling on how you're being perceived. Anyway, the anxiety's been lifted but my memory's even worse than before. (Ironically, my mentally marvelling -- obsessing -- over how comfortable I now feel during social/business interaction can interfere with listening and digesting. But there's more to it than that, because I forget things that have no social aspect at all)
>I'm really surprised you noticed an immediate effect ("day one"). The best study I read on it said it took a while to affect most.
I'd be interested to see the study you're referring to. Do you have a link or an electronic copy you can paste? I know that the studies of Provigil for AD augmentation in treatment-resistent depression showed very rapid response, often a week, rarely more than two. (If you'd like to see more detail on this, let me know. I've posted some of it here before.)
> I ran out of adrafinil after the first package, & had to wait another 1 1/2 months for my next batch to come. At least, it doesn't have the horrid withdrawal/discontinuation problems that most ADs have & while I really missed feeling alert & awake, it doesn't have that feeling of tolerance build-up/addiction that other stims can give.
Tha's exactly how I've felt during the periods (four or five days max) where I've had to go without Provigil. In fact, the only reason I originally started taking it was to combat the fatigue that was coming from my Serzone+Klonopin combo. But when I unexpectedly found myself becoming more enthusiastic, confident, assertive, alert -- vs. simply wide awake -- I realized I had struck on a super combo for my social phobia.Rick
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