Posted by Rick on February 8, 2002, at 1:30:51
In reply to Provigil- took test drive of abuse potential- none, posted by 3 Beer Effect on February 6, 2002, at 12:18:54
Thought I'd compare notes re your reactions to Provigil. I have not used any of the traditional psychostimulant drugs, although purely from the standpoint of stimulation, I found selegiline (deprenyl) to be in the same league. Of course, selegiline is contra-indicated with many AD's. Plus, unlike Provigil, it added anxiety and kacked many of Provigil's unique benefits. (Selegiline's great for cogniton, memory, and sexual stimulation, though.) And importantly, all of my experience is based on taking Provigil in combo with low-dose Klonopin, or both Klonopin and Serzone.
>Somewhere I read that it was feared Provigil may have an abuse potential much like the other psychostimulants since it supposedly causes euphoria at doses of 500 mg/day or greater.
I undersood the euphoria had been reported at much smaller, traditional doses as well.
>Currently Provigil is Schedule IV (low potential for abuse) while the other psychostimulants/ADD meds Dexedrine, Adderall, & Ritalin, Focalin, Concerta are Schedule II (high potential for abuse, DEA triplicate prescription required, no refills allowed).
There have been very few reports of abuse potential with Provigil. The warning may be based on a 1996 study of rats. Their conclusion hardly sounds too cautionary, though:
"The reinforcing and discriminative stimulus effects of modafinil-required very high doses: modafinil was over 200 times less potent than d-amphetamine and was also less potent than l-ephedrine. These results show that modafinil has some cocaine-like discriminative stimulus effects and, like other abused stimulants, can serve as a reinforcer at high doses."> I personally found that Provigil has a low potential for abuse since it lacks the most desirable quality of abusable stimulant drugs- euphoria. Both 600 & 400 mg feel roughly similar to 5-10 mg Dexedrine but without euphoria. Provigil does none cause any of that great 'on top of the world' amphetamine feeling that Dexedrine or even Adderall does.
I once heard someone suggest that Cephalon *could* have demonstrated the lack of abuse potential in humans, but this would have resulted in too much delay in FDA approval, thus lost revenue.
The first time I took it (200mg), I did have some mild euphoria, but it was short-lived. About half the times that I temporarily bump the dose from 100 mg to 200mg, the mild euphoria briefly returns. But I can easily go cold turkey on Provigil -- have done so several times.
> Unfortunately, at 600 or 400 mg, Provigil is dysphoric & feels exactly like if you took too many No Doz caffeine pills.
But why is there any reason take that much? Provigil certainly doesn't feel like that at typical doses. And even the manufacturer, who wants to sell more product, says that doses over 200 add side effects without an increase in efficacy -- and that's in narcoleptics. Even though I'm taking Klonopin, caffeine definitely makes me more anxiety-prone. Adding a normal dose of Provigil, on the other had, actually makes me *less* anxious.
>The most notable dysphoric feeling is a rapid heartbeat that lasts all day long & nausea.
No nausea here, even up to 200 mg. OK, maybe infrequently some vague, mild, quickly-passing nausea if I take 200 after getting insufficient sleep and then don't eat breakfast. Basically a nonissue for me, although many people tend to be susceptible to drug-induced nausea in general.
It increases my heart rate some, but surprisingly does so without adding anxiety. (Again, this is in tandem with Klonopin...which also raises my resting heart rate a little, BTW.) What shocked me re the vitals is this: I originally added Provigil to my Klonopin/Serzone combo, and -- as expected based on what I had read -- it had absolutely no effect on my blood pressure. But as soon as I stopped Serzone, Provigil had a strong and dose-dependent blood-pressure raising effect. After a few months, I added back the Serzone, and the BP immediately dropped back down to low-normal. Serzone somehow completely eliminates tmy Provigil BP effect. I should point out that my BP tends to be very med/supplement reactive in general.
>Also seems to cause lack of appetite but does increase energy.
No argument with the energy comment. As for appetite effect, I think at least half of the readers here would find that to be a *benefit*. Especially at 200 mg, Provigil is very dieting-supportive, in the sense that I can go without eating and it doesn't bother me.
However...That brings up one of the things I really like about Provigil, namely the fact that I can mentally turn off its effects when I want to. If I feel I've been eating too much, Provigil allows me to easily "order" my appetite to take a hike, and I can even skip a meal without difficulty. But when I decide I *want* to eat a nice big meal, a hearty appetite is right there waiting to be satiated.
For me, one of the best "tell-it-what-to-do" Provigil benefits is that I can be awake and alert when I want to be (which is most of the daytime), yet still catch some daytime zzz's if I choose. I love the fact that I can essentially turn Provigil on and off at will.
>It does seem to make you optimistic & have anti-depressant qualities
Agree, although I've never had major depression..
>will definitely get you out of bed in the morning if you have the type of severe depression where you stay in bed all day.
I don't know about the depression connection, but if anything I find it harder to get out of bed in the morning when I'm taking Provigil. But once I'm finally up, the energy quickly starts coming on.
>So far, seems to be inferior to Ritalin for brain stimulation, but some said Provigil takes up to a month for its full psychostimulant effect.
I noticed an increase in many aspects of cognition, sociability, energy and enthusiasm on day one. That neither improved nor dissipated over time. But I can see how some people might require a greater period of time to recognize full effects. My biggest disappointment with Provigil is that it doesn't have a memory-enhancing effect for me, despite its reputed nootropic effect supported by promising animal studies. Damn! Selegiline did much better in that department, but it made me anxious.
>(Remeron has no sexual side effects, Provigil would cancel out both the Remeron daytime sedation & appetite increase).
I had already thought about this combo. I have little doubt about the anti-sedation effect (it certainly has that effect for me in combo with with Serzone and Klonopin, which might be additively as sedating as Remeron). But I'm particularly curious about your anti-weight-gain theory. Given the magnitude of weight-gain typical for Remeron, I doubt Provigil could completely nullify it, even if Remeron's weight-gain comes from increased appetite. My guess is that Provigil could reduce the amount of weight-gain but not eliminate it. Aga
Is there anyone out there who's tried a Remeron/Provigil combo and can fill us in?
> Perhaps more importantly, Provigil diversion to the street illegal drug trade will most likely NOT occur.
Someone posting from France who claimed to have some kind of relation to the inventors of modafinil (Provigil) and adrafinil said businesspeople there have been "abusing" Provigil staying up all night working. (But in France? I thought it was only in the U.S. that it's customary for people to work themselves to death.) I have to admit that there are times I've stayed up a lot later than I should -- NOT because I wasn't getting sleepy (I NEVER take Provigil after noon), but because I knew Provigil would allow me to be awake and alert the next day even after minimal sleep.
BTW, I think Provigil may have some mild pro-sexual effects.
Rick
poster:Rick
thread:93083
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20020131/msgs/93290.html