Posted by Elizabeth on December 12, 2001, at 16:03:12
In reply to Re: Methadone for depression. » judy1, posted by JahL on December 12, 2001, at 13:39:47
> I think maybe it comes down to the nature of yr disorder. I've suffered from this disease (BPII) my entire life and know emphatically that there is absolutely no environmental aspect to it whatsoever.
Me too, and I *really* don't like it when "talk therapy" types try to blame my parents for my problems. It's bad enough that they stigmatize *me* for my illness. My parents -- despite the fact that they both suffer from milder versions of the problems that I have -- have done a better job raising me than most parents do (I didn't really start to appreciate them until I started noticing how awful most other people's parents are!) and they are *not* at fault for my illness.
> All I need are drugs to correct whatever form of biological dysfunction it is I suffer from.
At this point, I need more than that, but I've found that talk-therapy isn't the answer. But what I really need is some help getting back on my feet. Sitting and talking about my feelings does not help with this.
> What I don't need are well-meaning but ultimately ignorant (ie no medical training) folk *standing in the way* of me and my medications (and therefore impeding my chances of remission). They do this by insisting there is a psychological bent to my disorder (therefore medication not required and so is*denied* me by my GP).
I think that the problem lies in a sort of black-and-white thinking that pervades psychology and psychiatry -- either you have a "biological" disorder (a "real" disease) or a "psychological" one (in which case we get into blaming the victim, or her parents). This is a fallacy. The "mind" is produced by the brain; it's not some separate, insubstantial entity.
But getting back to the world of therapies, I just wish for people charged with my care to listen to me and believe me when I say that talk therapy (of all sorts) has not done me any good. I know better than they do what my experience has been, after all -- at least, that seems obvious to me.
> They don't seem to appreciate that what I (we) suffer from is so much more than just 'sadness'.
Yes. And they almost invariably have never suffered from depression or any other such disorder themselves. They think they can understand what we go through, but they can't because it's just so far removed from their experience. And they aren't willing to admit to their ignorance (or even to the *possibility* that they don't really know what's going on with us).
> I just wish they'd restrict their help to those that want it and not interfere in medical matters in which their input is irrelevant and often distracting and misleading.
I'd say the effect of it can be worse than that: being faulted for what is essentially an illness that we've had all our lives can be extremely damaging to our self-esteem. Undoing this damage is something that perhaps a talk-therapist could help with -- if I were able to find one I could trust.
> Like Elizabeth, if I *do* want to talk, I have a good 'social support network' (is that what they call it?)
I call it "family and friends," personally.
> and I am also fortunate enough to have had a good upbringing; my head is largely free of misconceptions and 'issues'. I'm v. lucky in this regard.
Me too.
> I won't get into the issue of causality and how confusing it can be for therapists (Them: "You're depressed *because* you don't go out anymore". Me: "No, I don't go out anymore because I'm acutely depressed, do not feel sociable and have felt this way my entire life. What would be the point of going out if I don't enjoy myself?". They tend not to like rational replies like this :-) )
I think a lot of it has to do with lack of education and perhaps limited intelligence. A social worker, for example, may not even *understand* a lot of what you're saying. And on the other hand, psychologists (and some of the more talk-oriented psychiatrists) may understand, or at least think they understand, but think they know better than you what's going on in your head.
> To borrow from the therapist parlance, this is a 'triggering' subject for me; it winds me up.
See, this is the sense in which, IMO, trying to force people into talk therapy when they've found it unhelpful or even hurtful, is not only useless, it is actively harmful.
> I don't think I'd have any problem with therapists if they just confessed that what they principally do is *support* people, not cure them.
Me neither.
> Like Elizabeth I feel many people could benefit from counselling; I just don't see why depressives *specifically* need it, why it's forced upon them (it does't follow that if you have depression it's because your thought processes are 'wrong' [to use 'their' technical jargon]).
Well, "depression" covers a wide range of conditions. Let's say "primary depression" when we mean the medical condition -- depression that isn't the "result" of some kind of bad experience or whatever, it's just there; our emotions don't quite work right.
> I know dozens of people who are 'well' but nonetheless have something of a tenuous grip on reality and basically need a good talking to.
Heh. That's true too, and it doesn't mean that what they have is a disease. Talking doesn't cure diseases.
> Remember, and this is is significant, I'm talking about the UK NHS here, where therapy is often forced upon patients who neither want nor need it.
In the US, talk therapy is often forced on patients too, although the coercion is more subtle: for example, a psychiatrist refuses to treat you with medication unless you're in talk therapy.
> If they refuse, they're branded know-alls, egoists & trouble-makers and further treatment is often restricted.
The irony is that the arrogance is coming from the professionals who think they know better than we do what's in our best interests, not from the patients, who genuinely do want to get better.
("doesn't really want to get better" is another stigmatizing label that's often branded on patients who don't "cooperate" with ineffective treatment plans)
-elizabeth
poster:Elizabeth
thread:84007
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20011202/msgs/86714.html