Posted by steve on March 17, 2001, at 19:34:26
In reply to Re: ADVICE PLEASE-Want to try Geodon, but TD risk? » steve, posted by JohnX on March 17, 2001, at 7:20:02
This here explains how the hypersensitivity model simply doesn't explain reality-based observations. As it's ANCP it's blue ribbon and beyond reproach. It's not as strongly for the cell death model as other articles I've read but can't find, but it does suggest that the model is receiving more and more recognition.
http://www.acnp.org/G4/GN401000144/CH141.html
Essentially anytime dopamine is metabolized outside the neuron, as is caused by neuroleptics, it results in the release of byproducts that destroy cells in a way that is identical to how some scientists think cancer is caused.
As for why the socalled "atypicals" are less likely to cause the tardive syndromes, it's because they are usually given at doses that result in less dopamine receptor antagonist. Sort of like why a few rum and cokes a day doesn't cause as much damage as a gallon of vodka mixed with paint thinner a day.
Run a medline search for antipsychotics and volume, or look up some of the articles I've posted to the board in the past few months. Here's a link to a site that is strongly against any neuroleptic use, perhaps more so than I am. Be that as it may, the articles they cite from the likes of the Lancet are completely credible, and show how there is indisputably is substantial brain atrophy related with them. (The lancet is Britain's most prestigous medical journal.)
If you want to really make my day, ask your shrink how many free meals and other freebies he has accepted from neuroleptic peddlars. I think that you should know that to give truely "informed consent."
S.
> > >
> > > > I really don't think your shrink is doing you a favor by suggesting that TD is something one either has or doesn't have. TD is caused by the APDs killing neurons off, which they all do by their very mode of action. The only unknown is if it the neurotoxicity will suffice to inflict disabling neurological damage or not. A much better analogy would be say with lead poisoning, which some times does cause substantial CNS disturbacnes, and sometimes kills, but not always either.
> > > > > S.
> > >
> > >
> > > I thought TD was primarily caused by a lack of dopamine or blockade of D2 receptors spawning more D2 receptors? The inclusion of 5ht-2 antagonists in newer anti-psychotics was to increase the dopamine release in those receptors sensitive to TD.
> > >
> > > -John
> >
> > That theory is no longer operative. Current thinking is that TD is when the brain damage reaches a critical mass. There might be a case to be made for the treatment, but the fact remains that it does cause brain damage.
> >
> > S.
>
> Hi,
>
> Can you please provide any links to studies that abort the old theory of TD? This must be relatively new data because all the information I have is mainly from the last 3 years or so and most of it points to the "old" theory.
>
> In a brief summary if possible:
>
> -What kind of neurotoxic transmission is thought
> to cause the TD?
>
> -Why do the newer anti-psychotics with 5-ht2
> antagonism have reduced TD given the old
> theory is bunk?
>
> I would really appreciate any information as this
> is an important criteria in my medical decisions.
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
poster:steve
thread:56412
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010310/msgs/56803.html