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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 16:24:09
Most people would be pleased to travel to somewhere like Hawaii.
As the days draw closer to departure, oh boy, I just battle with myself. Every maladaptive behavior screams at me. It is utterly ridiculous, yet it is.
I can't decide if I want to go. No, I've decided I don't want to go, but my family does. Once I get there, even just get to the day of driving to the airport, I'll be alright. I'll have a good time, even, and all this anticipation will seem so unnecessary, which it is.
I don't know how to shake anticipatory dread. It can really throw a wrench in everything. It feels like overload.
Posted by sigismund on May 22, 2011, at 21:55:55
In reply to vacation anxiety, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 16:24:09
>I don't know how to shake anticipatory dread.
I wouldn't bother trying. It's just more of this crazy sh*t we feel. Best to think about something else.
What can you say about anticipatory dread that is helpful?
Try listening to Doug Stanhope?There was a special in the papers on Hawaii.
My idea of hell is a resort in Honolulu, but what I saw was really wonderful.
Beautiful landscapes, nice and alternative looking and best of all, hardly any humans.
Posted by sigismund on May 22, 2011, at 22:06:07
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on May 22, 2011, at 21:55:55
If the world had been kind enough to have ended yesterday, we wouldn't need to bother.
Life is full of disappointments.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 22:36:32
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by sigismund on May 22, 2011, at 22:06:07
I'm going to tell my husband that I'm not going. I have been through enough. He can vacation with our son. I haven't had two minutes to call my own for years especially the very last.
Just because I have risen from the dead on emsam for periods of time doesn't mean I want to vacation.
I want to set up my studio w/ the precious energy I have. I don't have it in me to get on a plane.
Yeah. This discussion should go real well.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2011, at 23:21:06
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » sigismund, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 22:36:32
FB reminds me of when my Son was coming. It ended up going well and all the worrying I did. I do feel you would enjoy Hawaii it's beautiful. Maybe if you looked at some pictures of where you will or might be might help? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 0:15:38
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2011, at 23:21:06
It Kuia (sp). Not a resort. A small place near a wildlife refuge on the north shore.
I just feel like it's been a hell of a year. My nerves are shot. I only agreed because my husband hadn't looked so happy in about a year or more.
How can I travel when even before all this sh*t happened to me, the thought of airplane travel always made me sweat.
I have a certain radius I feel comfortable in. SF is the northern limit, Big Sur the southern. I am very neurotic and feel
too tired for a challenge.We'll see. He might flip out. Irish hot head. Fast to flare, fast to cool down. Whew.
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2011, at 0:22:16
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 0:15:38
FB did you take your sleep med yet? I'm about to. But must google the Hawaii spot sounds remote and quiet. Too bad can't boat to there. Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 0:26:04
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2011, at 0:22:16
No sleep med yet. Kinda' dumb, but rather not be doped in the morning. Feels a little like klonopin. And here I thought Valium would feel good. I'll take half, esp if I talk to hubby. Need to sleep. Goodnight :-)
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2011, at 7:19:43
In reply to vacation anxiety, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 16:24:09
I always hate the idea of going on vacation. But once I'm away, something happens to my brain. It's as if in changing my surroundings I break free of something. By the time the vacation is over, I wish I weren't going back. I recognize how dangerous the old familiar can be to my health.
I find the same thing happens, to a lesser extent, when I get away from the house.
Is there anything inherently stressful about the vacation, apart from the airplane? I hate riding in airplanes myself due to emetophobia and certain bad experiences in childhood with my brother. For the most part I retreat into sleep. Or if my son starts playing a video game, he gives up his window seat. There's something very hypnotic about staring down into the clouds.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 11:32:11
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2011, at 7:19:43
Hi Dinah,
I think it's poor timing for me (on top of my usual resistance to going somewhere new; similarly, once I get somewhere, I enjoy myself). I still am going up and down on meds, and on top of this, I have two pairs of canaries on eggs. I know one pair will hatch certainly by next week. The nestlings need all sorts of
care--they fall out, need to be warmed, feed, replaced in the nest. They can only be banded w/in a certain window. Unbanded birds cannot compete in song contests.I really would love them to go and leave me home--it's been an absolute year of uphill and I will be mostly lying in the
room or, I don't know, dragging down to a beach, hopefully near where we stay.My husband says, oh yes, you just can go
rest. Sigh.I would love to stay home by myself
knowing they were out exploring. I am in a solitude deficit. And, really, I worry that the activity will set me back :(I worry too much. It's true that some days a trip to the small market near our house is all I can muster. Then, one day
I can go swimming.My recovery feels so shakey.
Anyways, my husband did what he always did--insisted and blew up, only to calm down leaving me still rattled. He's not beastly-- the opposite. Just worn down.
It's just bad timing. Because of my depression plus now fibromyalgia, he says it's always going to be bad timing.
I'm just saying, really does it have to be now? Hawaii will be there next month.On top of this all, my efforts have been getting my son assessments and a placement in a school. These are the last few weeks for my son to shadow schools. He is testing as highly intelligent and dyslexic. He is also showing a hearing delay. The education specialist and neuro psychologist say all this is absolutely treatable with the proper teaching methods. I just eat up lots of emotional energy about this. There's a
school I love that I think he'll love, and
the specialist spoke to theirs, and they have everything in place to work for him.... Maybe they'll accept him tomorrow or so after his shadow day. God knows how long I'll have to wait to hear.This is just going to read like a big dump. I'm sorry Dinah. At any rate, I'm going. Will find someone (who!) to care for my birdies. My son, well I just hope I have something in jand before I go.
I am a worry wart :( I'll come back and post how wonderful everything is :-/
Thanks for asking. I like your version of a vacation :)
Posted by Dinah on May 23, 2011, at 11:47:56
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 11:32:11
Babies!!!
I can understand your reluctance. :)
Is this a long planned trip? Would it be easy enough to move it to later in the summer? We don't travel much in our house, and scheduling at the last minute isn't really something we ever consider.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 14:21:44
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Dinah on May 23, 2011, at 11:47:56
> Babies!!!
>
> I can understand your reluctance. :)
>
Now that makes me smile. Not easy today, either.> Is this a long planned trip? Would it be easy enough to move it to later in the summer? We don't travel much in our house, and scheduling at the last minute
isn't really something we ever consider.That would be a more rational approach for my family :+)
My error was originally assenting despite my misgivings. My hub looked so happy and well, like a kid asking for ice cream.
Sigh. Live and learn, though at my age that wears a bit thin.
I do like looking out the windows at the clouds. Like a brief reprieve from real life. Have you read about alcoholics in solid recovery who absentmindedly order cocktails in flight?
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2011, at 20:03:11
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Dinah, posted by floatingbridge on May 23, 2011, at 14:21:44
FB had no idea the trip was this soon. When is it? So you are going? Love Phillipa
Posted by Willful on May 24, 2011, at 16:20:43
In reply to vacation anxiety, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 16:24:09
One DBT technique that I've found extremely helpful is called "coping ahead." It basically uses the fact that people dread things and turns it around, so instead of just dreading the experience, you imagine all the things that upset you (or may upset you) and then practice what you'll do to cope.
Like, if you use meditation or relaxation exercises, you call up the situation in your head, and instead of focusing on the dread, you then meditate, as you would hope to in the situation, or practice whatever coping strategies you plan to use. So it's a chance to reduce anxiety-- as you make the imagining less and less fearful over time and also reinforce your skills.
I would try to see the dread as an opportunity to work on reducing anxiety, rather than a simple reexperiencing it, if you can.
I by the way found DBT to be so useful and helpful. I wish I had time to do it some more.
Willful
Posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:40:28
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Willful on May 24, 2011, at 16:20:43
Willful, how's this sound? (Because I had trouble following your instructions--it's me.)
So when the anxiety arises, 'ventilate'. Pena Chondron uses the term--roughly, I think, keep breathing, refrain from action, remain open. And you are adding that practicing alternate smarter or constructive ways in fantasy?
Let me know if I heard that right.
I love how you appear unexpectedly with such kind words.
fb
Posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 10:24:00
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Willful, posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:40:28
Hi, fb,
I was compressing a lot of information into a few words, so I'm sure it was my description that was too shorthand.
Dbt gives you many suggestions for handling painful, disruptive and destructive emotions-- Part of the idea is that each time you manage or regulate the feelings better, you strengthen your ability to do it the next time. Eventually you become skillful and also confident enough that that the overall suffering in your life is lightened, because you will start using these techniques more successfully and also become more capable of not being overwhelmed by negative thoughts and feelings.
One of the techniques is deep breathing, or focusing on where in the body you feel the pressure,tension, tightness or pain, and then using relaxation (or meditation) to relax and often to accept the pain,, which is often made worse by thoughts that emotions that accompany it.
It focuses on how to let go of, or change negative emotions and thoughts. For example-- one one page, it says,
I "Experience your emotion-- as a wave, coming and going;-- try not to block emotion;-- don't try to get rid of emotion, --don't push it away--don't try to keep emotion around--don't hold onto it-- dont' amplify it---
II Practice Mindfulness of emotion of body sensations --notice where in body you are feeling emotional sensations;--experience the sensations as fully as possible--observe how long it takes before the emotion goes down--
III Remember you are not your emotion Do not necessarily act on your emotion;--Remember times you have felt different
IV Practice loving your emotion--do not judge your emotion;--practice willingness--radically accept your emotion.
--- ~~~These are all skills that the book has explained in greater depth and the group practices in homework assignments over time, so each phrase refers to a set of practices that we have learned and tried. I know it's very hard to follow if you haven't done some of the exercises and reading. But I wanted to give it as an example of how the book teaches you skills, and then tries to help you with ideas about how to respond with "self-soothing"-- within yourself, when you're assailed by these painful or disabling emotions. Each phrase refers a skill. the book just has lots and lots of ideas about how to become more capable of responding to anxiety states and avoidant states.
--
This is just one set of techniques or "emotion-regulation" skills that you can use in this "COPING AHEAD"-- which I was mentioning. I will try to explain these later-- it really is not very hard, if I can explain it right.
The idea is taken from buddhism, in which you can't remove pain from life, but you can reduce suffering-- which is the additional pain that we inflict on yourselves because we can't or won't accept the pain or losses, or disappointments of life-- and begin to blame ourselves or others, or to become frightened, or angry at the way things really are (when they aren't the way we want them to be).
Coping ahead though uses skills like the ones above to try to cope with fearful or dreading predictions about how a future event will go-- in my case, for example, I got over my fear of flying enough so I can now go to places I could never before have imagined visiting. And it can help with the fear you project into the future about how events will go-- especially like in your case, when you kind of know that it really will go okay when you actually get there.
Thanks very much for your kind words, fb. I really appreciate them. (sorry for such a long post)
Willful
Posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 10:24:43
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Willful, posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:40:28
PS I'd be happy to explain anything on the last post that catches your eye.
Willful
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2011, at 13:23:09
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Willful, posted by floatingbridge on May 24, 2011, at 16:40:28
Willful,
When you mention a workbook (was it?) the book you refer to in Linehan's? If so, or even if not so, what book are you using?
And yes, your post is very helpful. Thank You for taking the time and thought (!) to write it out
With appreciation, and gladness that you can now fly places :-)
fb
I was in a dbt group and found it way more useful for me than cbt. I thought at the time I didn't really fit because other group members struggled w/self injury, and I did not. I have no idea if there are any groups near me since I've moved. Thanks for prompting me to think.
Posted by sigismund on May 25, 2011, at 13:59:53
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 10:24:00
Let me see what I can make of that with the anticipatory dread of Valium withdrawal, which is what I am currently doing.
The thing to do is have quiet time and get used to living in the state where everything is buzzing and fear is at the hand. My coping strategies are taking Chinese herbs and rereading "Europe Between Hitler and Stalin" and reflecting on European culture in a general way and our cultural and political inheritance, and the (very limited!) role Valium plays in that, and asking the question 'Do I want to be part of this?'
Nothing is going to help with the feeling except accepting and welcoming it as the way out of a pharmaceutical trap.
Nothing is going to help me work out how to deal with someone when in this state (especially when I spent so long doing exactly the opposite) except getting used to the feeling. In this way everything will seem so much more easy when there is less of the feeling. Like people, for example.
Posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 23:32:14
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 10:24:00
I'm glad you've had an experience with dbt, fb, so maybe what I'm saying made a little more sense.
The idea with coping ahead is that you will have some coping skills that you use-- like distraction, or reframing, or listening to comedy, or - or music that puts you into a different space-- whichever ones you find most effective. I often listen to certain music or meditate--as the ones you can often do in situations of stress. Focusing on your breath is my favorite and it's something you can always do, which is another reason I like it so much.
The idea is if you have a distressing situation that's coming up, to use 'coping ahead," you try imagine the situation in as immediate a way as you can. Then you practice what skills or abilities you can use in the situation to reduce the anxiety that you feel about it.
For example, I don't like vacations either-- although I have a good time after I get there (usually). So I would bring to mind going on the vacation and allow all the negative emotions to start, but instead of following them along, I would try to think of the idea of being "willing" (ie willing to give up or release the negative emotion) and of accepting the reality that I"m going, but that I have a lot of power over the thoughts and feelings I have about it.
I can say to myself-- this vacation is going to be a disaster, I'm going to be exhausted and overwhelmed the whole time, it's not fair... etc-- or I can think about the enjoyment I know actually will have---and try really to imagine the enjoyment, to say, the vacation can be fun, or interesting, and I can do it== I often used to say a phrase, in my case "I can do it"-- when I was really stressed out and feeling that I couldn't. And this phrase would make me feel stronger--
and then I would continue to think about the negative emotions, which would arise again, and I would focus on my breath, or on where in my body I felt the tightness or stiffness that came with the feelings-- and I would try to relax my chest or my face (or whatever it was) as i was doing the breathing. Sometimes I say a little phrase to myself when I meditate, and sometimes i focus on my breath, or just let my mind be somewhat empty, and bring it back to my breath if I find myself thinking.
But the idea is to use whatever works for you while you're imagining that distressing situation, so then when it actually happens, you've prepared how you want to respond-- and it becomes easier when you feel tense or pressured in the situation to use your coping skills.
I hope this helps a little.
Willful
Posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2011, at 1:16:12
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Willful on May 25, 2011, at 10:24:00
Thanks again-- this last post is even clearer. I can follow this :)
What book are you referring to? I gave mine away when I moved. Silly optimism :-/
Thanks bunches. I can do this.
fb
Posted by Willful on May 26, 2011, at 10:43:43
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety » Willful, posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2011, at 1:16:12
oh, sorry. I meant to answer. The book is the Linehan book that you get as a handout when you're in a group. It's really a wonderful resource. Is there any way you could get that?
I really recommend the talks and guided meditations on this website. http://www.audiodharma.org/--
They're incredibly thoughtful, down to earth, and on many topics with many leaders (including the meditations). They just started a retreat center which is why they have the donation part on the homepage. Just ignore that and look below and on the left side of the page for various speakers/talks/guided meditations. You might also find them helpful-- I do.
Finding a group would be great, if you possibly can!
Willful
Posted by floatingbridge on May 26, 2011, at 13:37:45
In reply to Re: vacation anxiety, posted by Willful on May 26, 2011, at 10:43:43
This is the end of the thread.
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