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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 17:47:25
I'm thinking more about San Francisco now that Dr. Bob has set up the Yahoo group.
It's getting to be more real now.
Right now I'm afraid I'm going to get really lonely and depressed while in San Francisco and decide to jump off the Golden Gate on my own. I wouldn't do it in front of Babblers of course. That would traumatize them.
What if I get upset over something? I get upset easily.
Posted by Nadezda on September 27, 2008, at 19:56:30
In reply to Bad thoughts ***trigger***, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 17:47:25
I think it would traumatize us if you did it period. Anytime, with or without any of us present.. So please don't.
Nadezda
Posted by Kath on September 27, 2008, at 21:19:18
In reply to Bad thoughts ***trigger***, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 17:47:25
> I wouldn't do it in front of Babblers of course. That would traumatize them.
***Dear Deneb, I have to inform you that it would traumatize ALL of us if you did that even if it was not seen by us!!!!!!!!!!!!!***
> What if I get upset over something? I get upset easily.*****Please, please talk about this with your pdoc. Preferably print a copy of your post.
I'm sorry you're so stressed out Deneb. How are things going at your job?
luv, Kath
Posted by Kath on September 27, 2008, at 21:20:33
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by Nadezda on September 27, 2008, at 19:56:30
> I think it would traumatize us if you did it period. Anytime, with or without any of us present.. So please don't.
>
> NadezdaI like the last sentence SO PLEASE DON'T. It is very straightforward & really clear.
K
Posted by 10derHeart on September 27, 2008, at 21:59:11
In reply to Bad thoughts ***trigger***, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 17:47:25
> I'm thinking more about San Francisco now that Dr. Bob has set up the Yahoo group.
Me, too. It's exciting. I am looking forward to seeing you again.
> It's getting to be more real now.
Yup.
> Right now I'm afraid I'm going to get really lonely and depressed while in San Francisco
That *could* happen. But, you have had these feelings before and let them pass - many times - remember? And....you will have several - perhaps many - of us there also you could call, come to see, etc., day or night, if you are feeling badly. Put me on that list, please. Remember we're just barely starting to plan. Are you maybe jumping to the conclusion you'll be isolated? Why? Could you maybe try jumping to the conclusion you *won't* be isolated? [pssst....If we have to assume anything, I like my assumption WAY better!]
>>and decide to jump off the Golden Gate on my own.
No, you won't.
>I wouldn't do it in front of Babblers of course. That would traumatize them.
Others already covered this, and more in this thread. Deneb - think about Toronto. You know what I mean. And that was much later in time. I was traumatized. I am still, in fact. Please never forget - YOU matter!!
> What if I get upset over something? I get upset easily.
I had a T. once - not the one I just had to move away from - but before that. He used to kinda play this CBT challenging game I think of as the "so what?" game in group t., or even in one-on-one with the right client/situation. Now this might sound harsh, but not really. (He is a gentle person and never harsh.) If I would say something like that, about how awful it would be if I had a feeling, he would say, mildly and inquisitively, "ok. So what?" And then I/you would think of the *awful* next thing that would happen if I/you got upset (usually something at least partly an assumption, or irrational...) and he would say to that, "ok. So what?" And so on... Every single time, that game worked out to me saying something like, "well, I guess there are all sorts of possibilities, most not even half bad...." or something close to that.
Did I explain that okay? Point being, Deneb, dear, if you do or don't get upset ---------so what?!! A does NOT lead to Z, and you know it. You are the walking poster woman for learning this, and I'll bet could teach it to others. [Just in case.....*of course* I don't mean "so what?" in the sense "who cares?" And mt ex-T. made sure he never did this until people were "ready" to fully know that. Not AT ALL. In fact, this little game you can play with someone whose fearful thoughts are trying to overtake them exactly *because* you do care. More a way of telling powerful feelings that have little basis in reality (or even if they do...) that they still CAN'T hang around forever NOR control your response! Imagine shouting at "them" - "FEELINGS! YOU are temporary! YOU will disappear. YOU can't destroy me!! I have the power over you" -- well, you get the idea ]
I believe the sequence of: "I'm very upset." "There's no way out." "I will harm myself." is waaaay in the past for you, and just comes back to try to haunt you from time to time. Tell *it* to take a friggin' hike! A long walk... Tell those disordered thoughts to "bite me!" Whatever works - I prefer the zany options- they often work AND make me laugh at the same time!
If you feel upset, you'll use one of many coping skills. You'll have available to you one of the best (IMO) - other Babblers who {kinda} *know* you and will care and talk to you, and not 'so what' - but "guess what?".......................
....the upset will PASS!! Am I right or am I right?
((Deneb)) Now - as Kath mentioned - what's up today? Something trigget this? I'll bet you know.
Sorry this was too long - but it matters to me. I'll try to be around here more if I can.
-- your friend, 10der
Posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 23:26:08
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by Nadezda on September 27, 2008, at 19:56:30
I was just thinking that it wouldn't because most people seen ok after deaths. I mean, they move on.
But then again maybe I just don't understand and they aren't OK.
But yeah, I think you may be right about my death hurting lots of people. Well, I'm pretty sure people at my work wouldn't care too much, Tomato guy might be affected a little.
My family would be devastated. Sometimes I wish we could all die together so they wouldn't have to suffer losing me, but that is a very bad thought to have.
It's just there have been babblers who have died and things go back to normal. So I think things will be ok if I died. Well, maybe a few people who be very upset, but after a while, they'd get over it.
I wish everyone were like Dr. Bob. I know for sure he'll be OK if I died. It's nice to know he'll be OK.
I don't like people worrying about me, that's one of the things I like about Dr. Bob, he doesn't worry.
Ugh, my family would be soooo devastated. So bad, but I sometimes wish we could die together.
Posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 23:27:59
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by Kath on September 27, 2008, at 21:19:18
Things are going well at my job I guess. It's what I did for a year. It's pretty much the same.
I should study more though. I'm falling behind in my class.
Posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 23:35:49
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on September 27, 2008, at 21:59:11
Thanks for your post 10der. It was really useful.
I think for the most part I don't want to die. I mean, I'm eating healthy for a reason right? Persumably because I want to live a long life.
I just scare myself sometimes.
I'm impulsive.
I've OD'd several times, 3 non serious, 1 serious.
I bought a rope to hang myself with once.
I've never actually been truly suicidal tho, that's the weird thing.
I'm been upset and OD'd. I didn't study and I OD'd. I got blocked and got upset and bought a rope. I got a needs improvement comment at work and I cut myself.
I'd hate to think what I'd do if I were actually suicidal.
It isn't that hard for me to OD too. I just get upset and impulsive and I just do it.
If I ever kill myself, it'd probably be an accident. I've never actually been truly suicidal.
Posted by Sigismund on September 28, 2008, at 2:53:03
In reply to Bad thoughts ***trigger***, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 17:47:25
Looking back over the thoughts of my life, I felt more strongly about them when I was younger.
Now I accept that thoughts are liable to be strange.
But I dunno, there are people who say that your thoughts are really important and a bad thought is a bad thing.
Maybe as you get older you just have to accept that you are complex?
You get upset easily? Me too.
Posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2008, at 12:47:13
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger***, posted by Sigismund on September 28, 2008, at 2:53:03
Yup me too and I feel it's cause we're caring people so Deneb you care about others and l0ders post was awesome. Phillipa feeling better today?
Posted by 10derHeart on September 28, 2008, at 19:39:08
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » 10derHeart, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 23:35:49
Posted by 10derHeart on September 28, 2008, at 19:40:12
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on September 28, 2008, at 12:47:13
Posted by Deneb on September 28, 2008, at 21:09:19
In reply to you're welcome. Hope you feel better today (nm) » Deneb, posted by 10derHeart on September 28, 2008, at 19:39:08
Yeah, I'm feeling better right now than last night. I don't know what happened there.
Maybe sleeping too much makes me depressed. I'd been sleeping a lot the last couple of days. I slept from 3am to 4pm.
I'm still not happy though.
I don't know what is wrong.
Maybe I just need to study.
Posted by Kath on September 29, 2008, at 19:02:06
In reply to Re: you're welcome. Hope you feel better today, posted by Deneb on September 28, 2008, at 21:09:19
> Maybe sleeping too much makes me depressed. I'd been sleeping a lot the last couple of days. I slept from 3am to 4pm.
>
> I'm still not happy though.
>
> I don't know what is wrong.
>
> Maybe I just need to study.
>Hey Deneb, I'm wondering if you're affected by the season changing!! I get Seasonal Affective Disorder problems. Last year they began in August & I eventually got a special Light lamp & took 5HTP & St. John's Wort & a homeopathic remedy & those things helped bigtime.
Deneb, do you remember if you get feeling crappy in the late summer or in the fall or winter???
Just a wonder.
I'm glad you're feeling somewhat better. Sounds like you're fairly stressed about school?
luv, Kath
>
Posted by Racer on October 3, 2008, at 15:04:44
In reply to Re: Bad thoughts ***trigger*** » Nadezda, posted by Deneb on September 27, 2008, at 23:26:08
> I was just thinking that it wouldn't because most people seen ok after deaths. I mean, they move on.
>
> > It's just there have been babblers who have died and things go back to normal.Here's a little reality check for you, Deneb: yes, we move on. Which doesn't mean that we forget, nor that the memories don't still contain pain for us.
For those of us who remember her, Gracie's death will always be a very painful wound. When I think of her, it still causes me pain.
Your death, from any cause, would cause me -- me, personally -- great pain. Should you die voluntarily, that pain would be tempered by a great deal of anger. My own, possibly selfish, preference is that I will never have to deal with your death. (I'm older than you are, so there's a good chance of that.) If I ever do have to experience that pain, I would rather it be pure, and untempered.
As far as that bridge is concerned, I will say this again: you, at your height, would not be physically capable of climbing over the railing. Get right over that worry, that you'll do it impulsively.
Everyone else has had very good advice for you. I'm going to give you two pieces, too. These are from me to you, and I hope you will accept them as having some meaning -- I hope that you have enough respect for me and for the time I'm taking to respond to this, to value these two pieces of advice:
1. It helped me a lot, when I was little younger than you are now, to think of those Bad Thoughts as being like a living creature which inhabited me. That creature was trying very hard to survive, while I was trying to kill it. I used the analogy of a parasite to explain why it was so hard to get past that sort of thing. Mine were a bit different from yours, but there are enough similarities I believe that such a metaphor may also be helpful for you. Think of your Bad Thoughts as a parasite you've been battling. You shrink it, but it's not quite dead yet, and it's trying desperately to grow back to its original size. The more effort you put into shrinking it, the less powerful it will be. You have what, eight months to work on this Beast? You've already shown us how dedicated you are to this work, and how successful you are in doing the work with your pdoc. In eight months? Man, you'll be the healthiest one there -- IF you decide to fight your Beast.
2. Before you even begin working on the Beast, ask yourself a different question: WHY now? WHY here? My guess is that you're looking for reassurance that people actually want to see you. Reassurance that someone will talk to you. Reassurance that we won't all sit across the room and laugh and point at you. And you're using older strategies to get that reassurance.
I'm not going to say, "Oh, Deneb, everything will be OK." I don't think that would matter one whit -- it might help for a few minutes, but then you'd need that reassurance again. Instead, I will offer you something else -- something I hope is more meaningful: Ask yourself what evidence you need to feel secure that someone will talk to you? Ask yourself what is the worst thing that could REALISTICALLY happen? Find the reassurance within yourself, because you've certainly got both the capacity to do so AND the skills to do so. Once you find that reassurance within you, you will have it with you always. If you need to hear your pdoc's voice telling you what you already know, that's fine. Hell, if you want to think of MY voice reminding you of this, that's fine, too.
Deneb -- I heard a great description of something else, that I think applies here:
"Say you're five years old, and your brother is four. He grabs your toy, and you smack him.
Now you're six years old, and your brother is five. He grabs your toy, and you go tell your parents. (And they smack him.)
It doesn't mean that you'll never hit your brother again, it only means that you've learned another coping skill which trumps the first one."
Right now, you're using the earlier coping strategies, the "I will hurt myself" messages, rather than what you're really trying to communicate. For some reason, you have reverted to "smacking your brother," rather than using a newer, more effective coping strategy. Maybe asking yourself why that happened would be a good counter-attack on those Bad Thoughts. Those pesky Unwanted, Intrusive, and Obsessive Thoughts.
Feel free to email me, Deneb. You know I'm in the area in question, and maybe I can help in some way.
Posted by Kath on October 3, 2008, at 20:46:13
In reply to Just a little reality check -- a very long one » Deneb, posted by Racer on October 3, 2008, at 15:04:44
Dear Deneb,
I think Racer's post to you is wonderful. I think the concept of the parasite is great; also of the kid using the old or newer strategy re the brother.
This was of thinking does seem to me to be a little slip back to an older way of thinking. You actually went a very long time without mentioning those thoughts...I suspect that you might not have been thinking them either. That's great progress towards health.
I think you're doing a lot of work towards healthy eating...and healthy thinking. I hope Racer's comments can assist you.
You're cared about & admired & respected Deneb. (By me, at least & by others too!!) I know I don't often say the positive things that I feel about my friends here (or in real life either).
love you, Kath
Dear Racer,
Thank you for writing such a wonderful & wise & helpful post for Deneb.
You're pretty special, ya know?!
luv, Kath
Posted by Deneb on October 3, 2008, at 22:14:57
In reply to Just a little reality check -- a very long one » Deneb, posted by Racer on October 3, 2008, at 15:04:44
I have to study for my exam tomorrow, yes a Sat. LOL
I read your post and I'm going to digest it fully tomorrow. I'll reply tomorrow.
Thanks Racer
Posted by Deneb on October 4, 2008, at 15:29:28
In reply to Just a little reality check -- a very long one » Deneb, posted by Racer on October 3, 2008, at 15:04:44
Thanks Racer, you always try to help me.
You're right, they are just bad thoughts, like a parasite. Sometimes I'm pretty good at pushing them away but somethings they get the better of me. I think I'll be OK. I actually read somewhere that it's best not to try to push them away or down, but to just accept them and realize that they're not what I'll do and they don't have any power over me. I read that that's normal for people to have occasional bad thoughts. Some people get upset over them, but most people do not.
I think you're probably right about how death affects people. I don't have too much experience with death. But I still cry once in a while because I miss Hammie, just a hamster, but I really attached to him. But the biggest reason I don't want to die is not because of other people, it's mostly a selfish reason. I enjoy life most of the time and I like living.
I've been seeing my pdoc for so long now that sometimes I sort of have conversations with her in my head and I can imagine what she'd tell me. I did this just yesterday with the studying. I'll try to imagine what she'll tell me when I have the bad thoughts.
Thanks again for your help Racer.
This is the end of the thread.
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