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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 2:10:15
My mother is in such denial about her depression and will not get treatment, even though she is extremely supportive concerning my depression. She is on Clexaa prescribed by her family MD, but does not seem to be helping. She refuses to bathe, clean, lives in filth and smells to high heaven. Her friends know this but when I have asked them to help me confront her they refuse because they do not want to upset her. She will be coming for Christmas, which puts a huge strain on my marriage because of her body odor. She is severely obese and refuses to do anything about that either. I have approached her on many occasions with no success, although with kid gloves, she also promises to get better and do some thinking and get help. When I told her that some friends had brought it to my attention that she had an odor problem she was shocked and could not understand how they could feel this way. I am at a total loss, I do not want her to go into a deeper depression or do anything drastic but she needs help. Any advice?
Thanks.
Posted by Susan47 on December 12, 2004, at 7:34:47
In reply to Mother's Depression How To Handle, posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 2:10:15
Honey, you need to trade in those kid gloves for a pair of latex ones and scrub that female from head to toe... read her the riot act, why on earth would she be welcome if she gives out that much displeasure? Her body odour is a form of rejecting the world, and if that's what she wants, she should have it. Just IMO.
Posted by TofuEmmy on December 12, 2004, at 10:09:23
In reply to Mother's Depression How To Handle, posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 2:10:15
Does your mom see medical doctors at all? She really needs to see one about her over all health. Perhaps you could work on that issue? I'd imagine that wouldn't be easy to tackle either. But if she will go, you could call ahead and ensure they are away of her mental health problem. Perhaps you could get her to see yours while she is in town?
Have you asked her if she has thoughts of hurting herself? Do you suspect she is suicidal? It's important to ask. Her odor is bad...but that bigger issue is her depression.
Also, what are her living conditions like? Is it just messy? Could you give her a coupon for a cleaning service for Christmas, or would she even allow people in? Or is it something that needs a bulldozer? If it's truely squallor, with piles collected everywhere, this is probably more than just depression. Not that is can't be fixed, it's just that there would be more involved.
Take care. Emmy
Posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 10:18:44
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression How To Handle » GenieGenie2, posted by TofuEmmy on December 12, 2004, at 10:09:23
Hello,
My mother does see he family doctor for some other health problems. She is diabetic and suffers from a blood clotting disorder. I have spoken to my mother's dr and bascially she said she cannot give me any information and your mother looks great when I see her and never noticed a body odor. Her Dr. did mention that it could be because those with mental illness can hide symptoms to those that would help them.
I do not think that she is suicidal, although I do know that she has contemplated it after my deft left over 20 years ago. I am afraid if I am too hard on her she might do something. A few cleaning certificates would never do it.. She lives like you wouldn't believe just filth. My husband and I have cleaned things you wouldnt dream of then the next time we see her it is back to the same way. She is too embarassed to let anyone in, she has been without a dryer for 2 years now because she won't clean/or let anyone in. I have offered to help her but she refuses my help as well. Since I am an only child it makes it really hard.
Genie
Posted by Susan47 on December 12, 2004, at 21:28:09
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression How To Handle, posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 10:18:44
Posted by TofuEmmy on December 13, 2004, at 12:31:20
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression How To Handle, posted by GenieGenie2 on December 12, 2004, at 10:18:44
Does her doc know how she lives? For a diabetic to live with a lot of clutter is really dangerous, as a stubbed toe can lead to a serious problem. Especially if the place is also dirty.
I wonder if Toph can help with his experience in the area of adult protective services? I think clean up might have to be voluntary, unless her health is at risk?
emmy
Posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 19:45:08
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH??, posted by TofuEmmy on December 13, 2004, at 12:31:20
Yes, Toph, emmy has some good points and we need your help over here with your expertise, where are you Toph?
Posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 20:23:32
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH??, posted by TofuEmmy on December 13, 2004, at 12:31:20
Thanks emmy for remembering my occupation but now I'm on the spot. I do have a few thoughts, though. First em I think your right about depression here. This self-neglect seems situational, temporal and psychological as opposed to "collecting" which is typically an obsessive-compulsive disorder. OCD collectors show limited improvement with medication and recidivism is extremely high without systematic vigilence by a third party. I could be very wrong here but an unresolved loss trauma coupled with a percieved life-threatening illness could put any of us over the top. Coercing her to clean could be very dangerous under this scenario. If she needs to improve her hygiene, and of course she does not, unless she has skin breakdown, my advise is that it be done by someone other than a loved one, say, at adult day care or a visiting nurse who can use her authority without damaging her fragile pride. As for Christmas, this cannot be accomplished by then, so either she doesn't come which she may prefer or she comes and someone insults her or the family gets together and agrees that mom is going to get some help but can't by Christmas and we are all going to try and pretend that she doesn't have BO.
I have some experience with this because my mom has horrendous halitosis from her hypertension medication. It even grayed her teeth horribly. None of us children or in-laws had the balls to confront her, and my dad, he's hever known how to handle my mom about anything let alone something like this. She either got told by someone or figured it out for herself because her teeth are white thanks to the new bleaching products and she has mouthwash which sadly has no benefit.
Anyway, in my work I see a lot of collectors, some collect specific things, some go out and bring treasures (to them, junk to us)into the house, some won't throw away used toilet paper because it has intrinsic value and my record is finding homes for 98 of 100 cats (2 died). Then there are some where I look at the bottom of the stack of newspapers, and damn if the earliset paper isn't dated shortly after the death of her husband or more likely her son who wasn't supposed to die before her. Depression, I don't need to tell many of you, can be incredibly incapacitating. It's the leading cause of reversible dementias with hydrocephalitis second, I believe. I don't know if thats what's going on here, but the good news is if it is depression its probably more treatable than OCD. But what do I know?
-Toph
Posted by GenieGenie2 on December 13, 2004, at 20:51:30
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH?? » TofuEmmy, posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 20:23:32
Thanks for your response. My mother is only 56 so she goes to work everyday, so a visiting nurse or adult daycare is out of the question. As far as I can remember my mother has been depressed, but more so now then ever. Trying to get her to get treatmnet has not been sucessful.. When her friends have brouth her odor to my attention, because they were afraid she was going to be fired, I confronted my mother and received to denial as a response and her friends were turn angry that I used their names. If I cannot use a 3rd party or her doctor it is pretty much up to me. Finding the words is the difficult part, I have told her that if she doesn't tak care of herself she wont see my sone grow up and she promises to get better. I do not think she is a collector, by maybe has a little bit of mania, she goes out and buys things that she doesnt need and never brings in from the car. I appreciate everyones advice, I just feel like I hvea to choose between my mother and my husband.
Genie
Posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 21:26:51
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH?? » TofuEmmy, posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 20:23:32
temporal
recidivism
vigilAnce
Coercing
horrendous halitosis
her fragile pride
intrinsic value
And more, here and elsewhere .. your brain is lovely. Enough, Susan.What makes you special, Toph, and romantic and wise, is your experience seeing the darker side of us. And your conciliation with that. (overcoming distrust or hostility of ...)
Oh, Toph, I think I love you ... no, that's someone else. Do you know why I think women love their therapists? It's because they're people who trust, know, and accept ...
Posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 21:29:43
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH??, posted by GenieGenie2 on December 13, 2004, at 20:51:30
I don't think we discussed what type of BO it is, because I worked with a woman once who couldn't wear deodorant, and she sweated under the arms tremendously, and I felt bad for her, but I could see that she couldn't help it, it had not very much to do with how clean she actually was, as a person.
Does your mum have odour because she doesn't bathe, or is it something different?
Posted by GenieGenie2 on December 13, 2004, at 21:54:19
In reply to Genie, posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 21:29:43
Hello,
My mother smells becasue she does not bathe and she doesn't was her clothes. Not to be too graphic, but she allows her pets to urinate on her clothes then wore them to my house. She smells like the bathroom
Genie
Posted by Toph on December 13, 2004, at 23:33:01
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH?? » Toph, posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 21:26:51
From someone who has slapped me silly more than once for being , well, too silly, it's always nice to hear that you appreciate some of what I say. Now wouldn't have been nice if I actually said something that helped Genie cause I think I missed the mark. She may indeed need to coerce her mom to get clean as you suggested Susan because she is incapable of getting there herself. The hope would be that if she got clean that she would enjoy the praise she would receive and be motivated to stay that way. This may seem far out to you but some of my clients seem stuck in time and washing could seem psychologically like washing away the deceased in a sort of "I'll never wash my hand again after shaking (whomever is cool to you)'s hand". I only worry about the consequence of Genie having to get involved with role reversal, being mom to her own mom is rife with resentment, resistance and a sense of betrayal. A unified front from the whole family diffuses the blame off of Genie and on to everyone.
This is a tough one. It's why I don't sleep well at night thinking about work and Susan saying she loves me, of course.
-Toph
Posted by Toph on December 21, 2004, at 19:07:22
In reply to Re: Mother's Depression - -------- Hey TOPH?? » Toph, posted by Susan47 on December 13, 2004, at 21:26:51
Susan, I miss you more than I know.
Posted by AdaGrace on December 22, 2004, at 15:52:35
In reply to Hey TOPH?? » Susan47, posted by Toph on December 21, 2004, at 19:07:22
Posted by Toph on December 22, 2004, at 16:22:04
In reply to Re: I second that emotion (nm) » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on December 22, 2004, at 15:52:35
I miss you too Gracie. You're so popular now you won't go out for a drink with me anymore.
Posted by AdaGrace on December 28, 2004, at 17:29:51
In reply to Re: I second that emotion » AdaGrace, posted by Toph on December 22, 2004, at 16:22:04
Why go out when I can just hang my head under the spout on the box of wine in the fridge and guzzle myself into oblivion. Not much company right now. Wish I was dead.
Posted by Toph on December 29, 2004, at 12:43:14
In reply to Re: I second that emotion » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on December 28, 2004, at 17:29:51
Been there, thank God I've never done that.
This is the end of the thread.
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