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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ramsea on June 17, 2004, at 5:39:32
I am the sort of person sometimes called a dark horse. First impression leads them to think one thing, over time they come to be surprised, I am not dopey and dumb and a walkover. By that time I don't want to be friends with the people who had such a low opinion of me for so long. This happens as a pattern since childhood. I had to move around a lot, and I got sick of trying too hard to get people to like me. So I just was myself, which is naturally kind of quirky. When I was considered a very attractive young lady it was easy to make friends and boy friends for awhile, but it was my looks they liked, not my bipolar/asperger self that I am. You'd think I might understand all this after such a long time, but it still causes hard feelings. I can't handle the stress of friends because I am not sure even now exxactly how to do it, and I am sad for being such a friendless wonder. I do have qualities to offer people, I can bevery generous, I read widely and have knowledge on a fair amount of topics, I am not aggresive except in a meltdown wher I am hitting walls but it's more like a toddler's tantrum, I am not a gossip and keep confidences forever. I am not too good at smalltalk, butI can pass. I don't know why I am writing this now, it seems pointless.
Posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:40:33
In reply to why people ignore me, posted by ramsea on June 17, 2004, at 5:39:32
I identify completely. I too have a fair number of Aspergerish qualities, and sad to say, that does interfere with social intercourse. People do tend to naturally shy away from those who are different.
The way I deal with it in person is to closely observe others and pick up which other people also feel a bit out of place, and make social overtures to them. People who feel a bit different themselves are generally delighted by other people who seem a bit different. And, IMHO, you meet a far more interesting group of people if you concentrate on the quirky minority rather than the gregarious majority.
I can't say I have a wide circle of friends, because I don't. But there are rarely social situations where I can't find someone who looks like they feel uncomfortable, and spend some pleasant time together.
Posted by B2chica on June 17, 2004, at 12:24:32
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » ramsea, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:40:33
I'm Definately right there with you both! i can name two friends that i have, i love them both very much but i've never had a wide scope of friends just a couple Really close ones. Although going through all i am right now i must say i'm the most honest and open with babblers and somewhat one of my friends. So that narrows things even more :)
but i am who i am as popeye would say. and if people don't like me...their loss, my gain. i prefer it that way cuz then they won't be hangin around being needy. that's how i see it. bad i know but i've always been like this...why hide it.
i just dislike being around people all the time. thank goodness i have a job that allows me to be locked up alone with equipment most of the day.
And Dinah you hit it right on with your statement below.!! right on!
b2c
>People who feel a bit different themselves are generally delighted by other people who seem a bit different. And, IMHO, you meet a far more interesting group of people if you concentrate on the quirky minority rather than the gregarious majority.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 17, 2004, at 12:57:50
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » ramsea, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:40:33
I thought Aspergerish was a vegetable, harvested in spears.
Both of my friends are male - and have been all my life. Talk tends to run more impersonal, is more about current events, sports, etc. Soul baring can come much later, if at all. It works for me.
Of course, they both deal with me being quirky. That will never change. Early on I figured out that I wasn't going to fit in with the majority, so I worked on oddnes instead. After a while it got hard. Everytime I came up with a new look it got copied and I'd have to start all over.
Maybe you are "looking for love in all the wrong places?" (that was a question, not a statement.)
Posted by ghost on June 17, 2004, at 14:53:04
In reply to Re: why people ignore me, posted by AuntieMel on June 17, 2004, at 12:57:50
> I thought Aspergerish was a vegetable, harvested in spears.
okay that was funny. thanks. :)
for some reason, i've found that i love people was asperger's. i love they way they think. i love the way they look at the world.
i don't have many friends. dare i say i don't have any? i have acquaintences. lots of them. lots of people i recoginize on the street, acknowledge, and keep on walking by. lots of people i might see at a party or other social situation, listen to them talk about themselves, and never be able to open up in return (even IF the bothered to ask about how i was doing).
i've never been particularly attractive, and always been shy and introverted. i don't know what it's like to have had people fawning over me for being attractive, and i've never had anyone fawn over me for being smart. it seems that most people associate ugly with stupid, too.
i've made the best friends over the internet, where you don't have that physical aspect looming over the situation. there's also a backspace key, and a "quit" command. i know it's often not a substitute for real life, but maybe for now you can meet people online, even local people (just be careful!) and eventually move that towards real life. my closest friend i have now is one i met by talking to online in college (we chatted via the school network, we're big geeks) until one day i finally got up the guts in the cafeteria to say "are you andrew?" and he said "hi <ghost>."
what we need is the ability to teleport ourselves and have a big babble party. :)
Posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 2:59:06
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » ramsea, posted by Dinah on June 17, 2004, at 9:40:33
Very well said, Dinah, thanks. You sound positive and strong-minded. I suppose one of my difficulties at this point in life is that my sense of goodwill and trust was really amazingly naive and I got burned over and over. I never seemed to learn how to defend myself properly, so now I just try to avoid everyone just to protect what's left of me! lol. I do have a supportive and very devoted spouse, and although I have no friends--sincerely, zero--I am luckier than a lot of people. My husband does understand I have a problem socially. My pdoc admits there are some autistic traits (My father is high functioning autistic--very much so, and so is a brother mildly, and another relative quite probably). But my pdoc lumps it all with bipolar.
I suppose I see women as being the really good bonders and friend-makers and know I fail pretty clearly in this area. I'd love to just have coffee and listen and do fun stuff.
But maybe I am idealizing. Anytime I have been given the chance to do this, my stress levels are off the chart and quite frankly, it is unhealthy. I believe it is my challenge to live with this as best I can. Thanks for writing and keep up with that reaching out to others--it seems to be working for you.
Posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 3:07:52
In reply to Re: why people ignore me, posted by B2chica on June 17, 2004, at 12:24:32
I have always loved that saying by Pop Eye. Like you I even quote it! We are always walking this thin line between self-improvement and self-acceptance. It's a gift to discover where we really have limits to growth and where we can push some more at our comfort zone. I have personally tried very hard all of my life to fit and be socially right. At age 9 I spent hours in the town library reading all of the self-help and personality plus books I could. I think I learned a lot how to present an image of some acceptability, but for me the confidence I can display is a weak veneer. It's like the front of houses in old Western movies. Once the lights shut down, you could knock the tavern over with a feather.
All I can say, B2 is that it's good that you know who you are, which your letter seems to say. To borrow from midwifery, don't push when it's better to just breathe. That's been one big mistake for me. You sound like you've saved yourself some misery and were more accepting of your true self--I wish I had been as clever. I was all act as if and it wil come true--but it didn't. So I set myself up for failure. Now I will try to live more carefully.
Keep well, thanks for writing.
Posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 3:16:01
In reply to Re: why people ignore me, posted by AuntieMel on June 17, 2004, at 12:57:50
I am so impressed with the replies I've received. You people sound highly intuitive with great powers of survival. I am not putting myself down, but I think I tried too hard to fit in. You say you realized and then emphasized your oddness--which is like making lemonade out of lemons, that sort of thing, right? I did the opposite. I realized my family/teachers/classmates found me odd, but tried so hard to be whatever it was that was supposed to be good. So I read up on it, copied what I could. But even so my weirdness shone through. A girl wrote in my yearbook in 6th grade, "To A Neat Nut That I Like." I wasn't unlikeable, I was just different for a variety of reasons. When I read up on Asperger's last year I was dumstruck. Chills up and down my spine. All of the descriptions I read sounded as if I had written them---it was my life. But my pdoc says it is all explained by untreated bipolar. He's probably right, but it still doesn't take away from thr fact that reading those biographies and descriptions made sense for the first time in my life for the way I experience sensory stimuli, don't "get" social interactions except coming at it sideways through careful and often mistaken analysis, and so on.
I just hope you keep having lots of fun and I totally admire how you've made an asset out of eccentricity. And haven't been handcuffed to misery along the way. Stay well.
Posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 3:25:14
In reply to Re: why people ignore me, posted by ghost on June 17, 2004, at 14:53:04
Yeah, I loved the line about the asparagus too. All that you said I can feel for. It is always good to know that the world isn't just full of people who want to know people who look like contenders for the newest version of FRIENDS.
Maybe we should all get together and produce a pilot called NO FRIENDS. It would involve an Aspie-type like myself who keep trying to make friendships but just doesn't quite have the knack. I suspect viewers might find the general story a little boring. And I doubt the world's most beautiful women would enjoy playing a neurologically-challenged, medication bloated bipolar. Still, it's a thought.
I hope you keep finding friends to talk with on-line and off. It's true that on-line offers chances for people like myself to talk pretty freely---to many strangers. So far I've never been able to take on-line a step further. But I've known peole who have done so successfully. And now you're another one. I love your story about the diningroom--and calling yourself GHOST!! lol.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 18, 2004, at 12:58:26
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » AuntieMel, posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 3:16:01
Keep having fun? Not handcuffed to misery? Statements like that are just proof that my system is working.
I'm neither of things. And have had depression as long as I can remember, though I just went to a doc about it a couple of years ago when this really, really bad low hit that I'm just now starting to come out of a bit. It's unlikely that I'll ever be truly happy.
BUT - my defense mechanism, my desparate desire to feel approved of by somebody, let to some of these behaviors.
eccentricity - my dad wouldn't spend more than the minumum on the kids (though he had boats, fancy stereo, an airplane, we had 5 cars, a television in every room - in the 60's-70's) so I learned to make my own clothes rather than buy cheap.
having fun - ha! I was good at *looking* like I was having fun. When at my most miserable I laughed the most and cracked the most jokes.
And forget social competence. I was nearly 30 before I could make a phone call to a stranger. My mother had to make my doctor's appointments. I did find that when thrust into a social situation I could get through it asking the other person questions and get them talking about themselves and then listen intently. It's amazing, but they think you are a brilliant conversationalist when you do that.
Posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 13:33:30
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » ramsea, posted by AuntieMel on June 18, 2004, at 12:58:26
Why was your father like that? Have you worked through any of these problems in therapy? Not that it ever takes away the reality of what happened and all that stems from painful events. I'm sorry if I got your message mixed up--it did sound like you had achieved some liberation from the constant sense of social failure that I feel. It's a plague. I do try to grow through it and over it and around it, but my intentions lead no where. Still I am too hardheaded to give up completely. I can relate to the misery you are speaking of, but hope you find more ways to lessen its hold on you. That is why I am writing to this group. Wishing you balance.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 18, 2004, at 15:37:08
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » AuntieMel, posted by ramsea on June 18, 2004, at 13:33:30
What dad was like......
Awful. No sexual (that would require actually touching us), but moderate physical and extreme emotional abuse.
Physical was mostly beltings - leather and all. For just about any infraction, we were required to go to our room, drop our drawers and wait till he got there, which wasn't always right away. And he always expected the worse. One time when we were blamed for something my cousins did he did sort of acknowledge it after the whippings - by saying "i'm sure you did something you weren't caught for"
The mental abuse was worse long term. Nothing we did was good enough. If I'd bring home a 98 on a math test, he'd want to know what I missed and why I didn't make 100. He told my sister that she worked hard in school, but "too bad you aren't as smart as your sister" and he'd tell me "you're brilliant, too bad you don't apply yourself like your sister." My poor little brother didn't have a chance. He'd try to help dad work on cars and such and he'd be told "you can't compete with the master, so why try"
I knew all about his "performance" problems with my mom. Much more than a 16 year old should know.
When I was 16 or 17 I had to drive him home from the hospital after his vasectomy. Problem with that was he was still married to my mom and she'd had a hysterectomy.
He forced me to give up my first child for adoption, then played the 'poor pitiful me' thing about losing a grandchild.
I told myself years ago I wouldn't rebuff him because one day he'd die and if I hadn't given him a chance to try to make ammends then I would feel guilty. It wasn't for him - it was for me. I needn't have bothered, he never did. He behaved the same till the day he died.
Anyway these are a few examples. Therapy has helped. There are a few people in the world that know of these things, but they were discussed catch-as-catch-can and I always had doubts as to whether this was really abuse or did I have a character flaw thinking it was. One at a time made it seem as if I was being oversensitive.
A few months ago I started going over this in a session. It ended up being a full hour of listing examples. Followed by 5 or 6 sessions of listing examples. All matter of fact - no discussion of any of them - just one after the other - no repeats. It kinda makes you think 'yup - wasn't overreacting - he really was a d**k. It doesn't make it all go away, but it sure lifts a load to know that.
Posted by ramsea on June 19, 2004, at 1:34:34
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » ramsea, posted by AuntieMel on June 18, 2004, at 15:37:08
Some people are so poorly equipped to be parents. They really don't have a clue, and seem to be operating from a core of fear and anger. It's so sad. Your lifestory (what I have read of it) just makes me pain for the little kid who wanted so much to be just accepted and cared for in a simple, true way. How hard is that? From the evidence of this sorry world, it's very hard. But possible.
It's also sad how abused kids can doubt themselves so much, can think they made it up or it wasn't so bad or it was really their fault anyway. The best thing about psychotherapy and one of the best things of the 20th century in my mind, is how abuse has come into the open. Even 50 years ago it was common to read statements that made it sound like everything was alleged and not so bad and maybe they asked for it, or dismiss it with a joke. I am truly thankful that children have been listened to and the law is now on their side. What you describe is emotional abuse, plus physical abuse, and it is every bit as damaging as sexual abuse.
I don't mean to go on, I am just really moved by your share and this is the way that I hug (I'm not real good at touchy stuff like group therapy hugs, etc), by talking honestly. I hear your pain and I believe that the little child in you deserved much, much more protection, compassion, encouragement, and guidance. I hope life takes a gentle turn for the better for you. ANyway, I'm gad we talked.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2004, at 8:36:31
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » AuntieMel, posted by ramsea on June 19, 2004, at 1:34:34
Thanks for the thoughts. I am dealing with it, in my own slow way, and life is getting better.
Posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2004, at 9:29:27
In reply to Re: why people ignore me » AuntieMel, posted by ramsea on June 19, 2004, at 1:34:34
I just read what I wrote, and dang it - things don't look the same in print as in my head.
Try again.
Thanks for the thoughts.
I *am* finally dealing with it. And life *has* already taken a turn for the better.
Posted by ramsea on June 21, 2004, at 15:04:22
In reply to Re: why people ignore me - more » ramsea, posted by AuntieMel on June 21, 2004, at 9:29:27
I do that all the time!! lol. What a great thing to hear--when any one of us finds healing it makes it possible for all of us. Stay well!
This is the end of the thread.
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