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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 23 to 47 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 10:25:27
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
If they are able financially, you could rent a storage bin and put the stuff in there. When they haven't needed it for 5 years, then maybe your mom would let it go.
They keep newspapers on microfiche - could you at throw out (or box up) the newspapers? (This wouldn't sway my dad, he believes that HIS copies of PC Week from 8 years ago are "valuable") Maybe if the newspapers were gone the rest of the stuff would be managable in volume. Hmmm - the group member wanted to go through all her old newpapers and clip things out... Still... might be worth asking...
Posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 14:34:48
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
Dinah,
This is my sister's response - sorry, it seems that her magic wand is broken, too:
Organizers can be found at www.napo.net. There are lots of really good people out there to help.
But, you know the answer to this. You can't make someone else change. Eventually the situation may become unbearable and they decide to, and even then it's difficult. Or, it becomes a safety/health issue and legal steps are taken, which can damage relationships.
Framing it in terms of what your friend needs is better than trying to tell the parents what would be best for them (no matter how true it is). Your friend can decide on her boundaries and stick to them, with support from you and others that she's entitled to do that.
We aren't far away from this ourselves, as I'm sure you're aware.
The 81-yr-old man I drive to church had his license revoked by the police chief, and he's mad at him. Certainly his daughter, a state cop, asked the chief to do it. Unfortunately, it's not so simple in matters of household clutter. There is no cop to pull someone's license to subscribe to the newspaper.
Diagramming this like a computer program might help. Break it down into a series of binary decisions (for your friend, not the parents). If she can be confident about each binary choice, she'll have a map to follow, and it may give her the courage she will need if she gets to the point where she really does have to call the health department (or it might be easier to call the fire department, if they are blocking their egresses).
Posted by All Done on March 10, 2004, at 14:50:33
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:44:25
> It's amazing how small doses of my family have such a huge effect on me.
(((((Dinah))))),My heart is just aching for you.
Just the other day I burst into tears because I'm planning a family dinner for next week where I'll see my mom yet she wanted to know if she could see me this week as well and perhaps over the weekend. (Give her an inch and she takes a road trip.) I told her I was busy and then cried on my husband's shoulder about it.
I struggle every day between not wanting my mom to be so dependent on me and loving her. I struggle a lot between being so mad at her I could cry and loving her. I struggle sometimes between thinking I hate her and loving her.
The boundaries I was forced to put in place six months ago have been a godsend for me. Now, I am the one keeping them in place. There are times like the other day when it's difficult, but in the end, I have to to protect my mental health.
I wish I had some practical advice for you. Here's a little one - can you turn off the ringers on your phones during the times you haven't, as I think falls suggested, allocated to family stuff?
Give Harry a big hug for me. He's such a good boy getting along with your mom's dog!
Take care,
All Done
Posted by Penny on March 10, 2004, at 15:43:24
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » fallsfall, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 9:45:56
Dinah,
Sorry I haven't been posting often, but just wanted you to know that I'm thinking about you and sending you positive vibes...
I so often lately feel I am at a loss for helpful words or advice - I'm glad others on the board don't seem to be! But I totally second (or third, or whatever) the sentiment to 'take care of yourself'. I can only imagine what this is like for you.
Glad to hear, though, that Harry is getting along with your mom's dog. At least you can perhaps get some enjoyment out of having another loving hound around. They always make me feel *a little* better anyway.
((((Dinah))))
I hope things improve with all of this soon.
P
Posted by Karen_kay on March 10, 2004, at 16:07:17
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 8:44:25
Dinah,
Now I'm going to reveal the cold side of Karen, the side you've yet to see. This is how I feel about my mom and worrying about her...I used to worry myself sick about her and what she was going to do. Then I realized, "Hey, wait! She's an adult! And if she's not willing to accept any advice I offer, then I can't make her. But, I can choose not to worry about her, as worrying about her only affects me. It doesn't help me or her in the slightest." ANd you know what, I honestly don't worry about her anymore. I finally realized that you can help and help but if the other person isn't willing to accept that help or advice, then there isn't anything you can do. I honestly don't know how I came to this conclusion and finally stopped worrying about her, but I did. And my life is about 75% less stressed. The only person that you are responsible for in this world Dinah is you. So, if your dad doesn't take you up on the offer, then that's his loss. And if he calls you to complain, don't answer the phone. Lord knows that you have enough going on in your life that you can't handle even more stress.
You can't control how others choose to accept help, you can only control the fact that you offer. And you are very gracious to offer your dad the help you did. Now, if he isn't gracious enough to take you up on that offer, then he is the one missing out. But, you DID EVERYTHING you possibly could to help your parents int his situation. I hope that when I'm older I have a daughter just like you. I only hope that I'm not too stubborn to appreciate her. Take care of you and Harry. That's all you can control hun. (And don't you dare run away young lady, as I've missed enough class the way it is. I can't imagine how much I'd have to miss to go looking for you. Crap, I don't even know where you live or your name. Someone else would have to come searching for me as well and that would jsut cause a big old mess....)
Posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 19:44:45
In reply to My family is driving me crazy., posted by Dinah on March 8, 2004, at 17:34:19
Six phone calls from my mother (so far). One before I was up. Several from my father. Plus he knocked the phone off the hook for hours.
Then he fell out of bed. He says it took him half an hour to get up and he's going to tie a rope to the bed to make it easier. I told him he needed a sitter. He said if I hired one, he'd kill her.
My mother asked me if I had checked the bed rail when I visited, because he said he knocked it loose. Well, no. First of all, no one had told me that. And second when I arrived at the time I said I would be there, my father was starkers. He was sitting crosslegged and I didn't see anything to embarass me, but I wasn't sticking around.
In her latest phone call my mother told me my father says he woke up with a fever and hasn't been taking his pills. And did I count his pills when I was there? Well, no. No one told me to.
It's gonna be a fun few weeks.
Posted by All Done on March 10, 2004, at 23:34:11
In reply to Day One, posted by Dinah on March 10, 2004, at 19:44:45
Dinah,
I'm sorry it was such a terrible Day One. I don't really know what to say, so I'm just going to keep giving you hugs until you run from me screaming. (Even then, I will probably have to chase you.)
(((((Dinah)))))
All Done
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:04:24
In reply to Re: Just remember to take care of yourself » Dinah, posted by All Done on March 10, 2004, at 14:50:33
Thanks, All Done. I'm sorry to hear you're going through that with your Mom. When I first got married, after living with my parents for thirty years, it was really tough to draw boundaries to suit my husband and I. It took me a long time and some hard feelings, but for the most part I did it.
I've always heard, and always believed, that the debt we owe our parents is repaid by being a good parent in turn. You keep those boundaries where you need them. Your mom will get accustomed to them. It took mine longer than six months, I think.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:10:09
In reply to Re: (((((Dinah))))) » Dinah, posted by Penny on March 10, 2004, at 15:43:24
Thanks Penny. I'm worried about the little girl. Years ago she used to sleep on my head. My mother doesn't let the dogs on her bed, and now she gets anxious and jumps off if I try to put her on. Harry's being a real gentleman. He apparently senses no threat from such a dainty gentle soul.
She's staked out the master bath as her area and doesn't leave it. I had to put down food and water, and am having to pick up after her in there too. I suppose I just as well put down paper. It's not that she can't find her way around. If I bring her somewhere else in the house, she finds her way back to the bathroom in no time at all.
I guess I need to accept that that's where she feels safest. I'm worried about her. She's shaking all the time and woke us up in the middlle of the night to a chorus of howls. She's eating and drinking all right though, so I guess she'll be ok.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:14:41
In reply to About parents » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on March 10, 2004, at 16:07:17
I don't think it's cold at all, Karen. We do what we have to do when we have difficult parents. I looked after my Dad very well from my early twenties to my early thirties. He's like a little kid, and it's really easy to make him happy. And really easy to make him mad. When my son was born, I realized that I had a real little kid now, and had to take care of him, not my Dad. I think my Dad's still mad about that, but that's life.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:25:13
In reply to Re: Hoarding » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on March 10, 2004, at 10:07:35
Your sister sounds as practical as you are, Fallsfall. I think I'd like her.
My therapist thinks the hoarding is a sign of OCD in my Mom, but I think it's a sign of Oppositional Defiant Disorder. It's kind of a funny story.
My mother's parents were poor farmers, so they tended to keep anything that may someday be useful. They had a junk heap outside and stuff piled inside. So my mother grew up with it. But she kept it reasonably sane for most of my life. In other words, she might keep the food section of every paper, never mind that she didn't cook, but she didn't keep the whole paper.
Then came Reagan's reelection campaign. She became certain that the papers were biased against him and decided to cut out all the articles that showed bias. So for the months of the campaign, she started keeping every section of the newspaper that might contain political news, because she never got the chance to read them.
Then my father and I made our fatal tactical error. At the end of the campaign, we told my mother she could stop saving the paper and throw out the ones she had saved. They were starting to pile up. Now, no one tells my mother what to do. She has the dubious distinction of being forced into early retirement because she was about to be fired as a union protected teacher. Nothing to do with teaching, but because no administrator could tell her what to do. We waved a red cloth to a bull, and she responded by keeping every section of every newspaper from that day to this. And any objection on account of health or safety or aesthetics or practicality is seen as an attempt by us to control her. She's also smart enough that reverse psychology doesn't work.
It's really kind of amusing if it were a make believe character. Less amusing in an elderly lady with a husband in a wheelchair with limited mobility and mice and roaches.
Posted by Karen_kay on March 11, 2004, at 9:41:26
In reply to Re: About parents » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 9:14:41
((((Dinah)))) I just realized I forgot to give you a hug. I'm sorry. It's tough with parents, especially when we aren't feeling well. My mother is just as stubborn as your father. Only she refuses any type of help from me at all. And she never calls me, so it's up to me to call her to keep in touch. And when I do call, I only hear things like, "You've been in school long enough to be a doctor." Maybe she doesn't realize that I've been sitting out? Or that I graduated, because she didn't come. And it will be sad when I graduate again and she's not there, but my boyfriend's parents and relatives are. But, I remember that in spite of the fact I have an unsupportive mother, I have the MOST supportive sisters in the world. So, I love my mother dearly for giving birth to not only me, but also 2 of the greatest, most beautiful women in the world. And how could I have any hard feelings towards her for that great feat? But, she has her own life and her own problems that she'll eventually have to face. And she always offers to help me financially, though I won't allow her. I'd rather have emotional support than financial. But, on the bright side, she has gotten a lot better in the past few years. Honestly, she has. So, maybe we're all changing? (Sorry, I have to gripe every once in a while..)
But....You have to do what can help keep your sanity. And if that means not answering the phone, or taking it off the hook, then do it. Or, if it means hiring someone to help your father and escorting them every morning on your way to work so your parents won't call you for every small issue, then do that. Or, if it means giving in to their demands, do that. But, you know what's best for you and Your household. And don't feel bad for a second for doing what you have to do to get by.
You're holding up so well right now and I'm so very proud of you Dinah. It's tough when there's a crisis in the family, as it not only affects the ones involed, it also affects everyone in the family. But, remember it isn't your responsibility to make your dad get help if he doesn't accept it from you. You're only human and cn only do so much hun. And thus far, you seem to be superwoman with everything you have on your plate and the way you are handling it. You're doing such a WONDERFUL job, and I can't honestly tell you how very thrilled I am that you are doing so well right now. You hang in there. And don't worry about taking care of anyone but you, Harry and your son right now. You're such a beautiful and caring woman Dinah! And I'm so proud of you.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 10:04:53
In reply to Re: About parents » Dinah, posted by Karen_kay on March 11, 2004, at 9:41:26
I'm sorry your Mom isn't well enough to offer the emotional support you need. But I agree with you. The world owes her a debt of gratitude for producing you and your sisters.
And in the meantime, you've found other great sources of support, Babble included. :)
And I think that overnight I have come up with a plan.
Posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 10:11:55
In reply to Re: About parents » Karen_kay, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 10:04:53
Each morning I'll make a bet with myself about how many times my mother will call. If I guess correctly, I can treat myself to something (not food, I promise). And I'll set the number high, like eight or ten (higher if that doesn't work) so that I can see each call as a step along the path to my treat.
And since I have some basic understanding of what drives my father, I think I'll make a preemptive strike. I'm guessing he'll have fewer crises if he isn't feeling abandoned. So I'll call, I'll have my cousin call, and I'll round up what acquaintances I can. I'll also look into one of those medic alert thingies so that I don't have to worry as much if he doesn't answer the phone.
I'm afraid I have to accept that I'm not going to be able to draw the boundaries as strictly as I would like. I would just feel too horrible if something happened to my father. I really do love him. I guess work will have to suffer. I'm not sure how that will work out, because I have to keep up my hours at work or I lose my medical reimbursement for my therapist. But I'll work it out somehow. I may be around here less.
But I guess I need to accept my own limitations (in not being able to draw boundaries) as I accept the limitations of others.
Posted by fallsfall on March 11, 2004, at 21:57:38
In reply to Re: My new plan, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 10:11:55
So, maybe we call that a compromise?
That sounds fine as long as you DO end up with some boundaries somewhere that YOU can live with. Recognizing what reality is with your parents is probably necessary.
I like the lots-of-phone-calls-to-your-dad idea. Maybe if you don't save your visit to him until last thing in the day it will make it easier for him to remember that you are coming to see him every day.
I have a friend whose mother has Alzheimers. This friend managed her money well enough to retire very early (she's in her late 50s now, I think) and has managed to do lots of travelling. When her mother started being less able to take care of herself, she moved in with my friend. My friend adores her mother and has taken constant care of her for the last 5 years or so (to the point that she has stopped travelling). She would do anything for her mother. Today I saw her and she told me that her mom was in the hospital and wouldn't be coming back to her house. That she had finally needed to say that she couldn't take care of her anymore. And, while my friend is quite sad that her mother is doing poorly, at the same time there was unmistakable relief. As she said "My quality of life has been deteriorating faster than my mother's quality of life".
Please just keep in the back of your mind that if you DO reach your limit that you have done all that you can (by definition). It does NOT mean that you don't love your parents, nor that you aren't concerned about them. It means that your FIRST duty is to yourself.
Please take care of yourself. We need you, too.
Posted by Dinah on March 13, 2004, at 18:09:43
In reply to Re: My new plan, posted by Dinah on March 11, 2004, at 10:11:55
I won myself a brand new pair of comfy summer jammies. I may even go for a nightgown this time.
My mother didn't actually call ten times (yet anyway), but I get triple points if she calls before the hour she knows I get up.
Posted by fallsfall on March 13, 2004, at 20:11:13
In reply to Re: All right!!!!, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2004, at 18:09:43
I hope you can find a picture of what you choose on the internet so we can all see!
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2004, at 9:40:13
In reply to Re: All right!!!!, posted by Dinah on March 13, 2004, at 18:09:43
Posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 1:12:40
(((Dinah)),
Sorry your mom called so much. How are you holding up?
I just love your idea, though! And if you want my opinion, you just *have* to get Karen Neuburger pajamas!
http://truebaren.speedera.net/products/F335P958Kar.fpx?effect=border,dddddd,1&wid=200&cvt=jpegPictures don't do her pajamas justice, though. They are the comfiest pjs ever.
And the socks! Oh the socks! Don't get me started.
http://truebaren.speedera.net/products/112502AKar.fpx?effect=border,dddddd,1&wid=200&cvt=jpegHave fun shopping. You deserve it!
All Done
Posted by fallsfall on March 14, 2004, at 10:01:34
In reply to Re: All right!!!! « All Done, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2004, at 9:40:13
Hey, those look just like MY PJs (but I got mine at WalMart)! So comfy.
Posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 11:16:52
In reply to Re: All right!!!! « All Done, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2004, at 9:40:13
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 15:14:49
In reply to Re: All right!!!! « All Done, posted by Dr. Bob on March 14, 2004, at 9:40:13
Oooh, I like those. I have a couple like that in soft soft cotton. I'm taking my time deciding because there's a possibility that my mother got the message about calling before 8 am, so I might not be getting triple points again. :)
As for socks, with my high arches and enormous calves, I'm afraid slouchy socks are the only ones for me. Don't ask. :( But I do think it may be time to look for more of those too. They lose their shape pretty quickly.
And since I've been sent to buy hospital wear for my mother, I've even got a perfect excuse for shopping!
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 15:15:33
In reply to Thanks for redirecting, Dr. Bob. (nm), posted by All Done on March 14, 2004, at 11:16:52
Posted by gabbix2 on March 14, 2004, at 15:34:41
In reply to :-) Above obviously for (nm) » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 15:15:33
I like the idea that you really meant to discuss summer P.J's with Dr .Bob can I keep it? It made me smile.
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 15:46:41
In reply to Re: :-) Above obviously for, posted by gabbix2 on March 14, 2004, at 15:34:41
But in that case I'm glad I didn't send my original post. :P
Posted by All Done on March 15, 2004, at 9:17:31
In reply to LOL. Of course. » gabbix2, posted by Dinah on March 14, 2004, at 15:46:41
> But in that case I'm glad I didn't send my original post. :P
Am I the only one dying to see your original post? Well, maybe Dr. Bob is, but he just can't say ;).
How did you make it through the weekend, Dinah?
Hope everything has been manageable for you.
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