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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 46 to 70 of 70. Go back in thread:
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 10:16:02
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by six on December 9, 2003, at 20:28:20
> people have been made to feel uncomfortable
>
> When you refer to yourself as a red-blooded woman who can't wait to hear from him ... it puts someone in an a terrible position.
>
> It does appear to be a game. And yes he is being put in a very awkward position> Karen please don't [take] one post out of context.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Dr. Bob on December 10, 2003, at 10:17:31
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
> at the very least, it was insensitive.
Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, thanks.
Bob
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:18:18
In reply to ((((Karen Kay)))), posted by Dinah on December 10, 2003, at 8:13:31
> I hope you aren't feeling uncomfortable. :(
>
> I know I am.<<I'm not at all feeling uncomfortable. I personally (!!!) just feel that if Jai's comment was taken out of line, then Larry should be the one to say so, no one else. And I'm sure if someone were to post somethig similar to the original post to me, I would feel hurt. Just wanted to give Jai some much needed support. I was sure she didn't mean anythign by the comment. Uncomfortable, well, maybe a little, but the hug sure helped!! Just felt I was saying soemthing that needed to be said!
Karen
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:19:41
In reply to Re: ((((Karen Kay)))), posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:18:18
Posted by Karen_kay on December 10, 2003, at 12:29:43
In reply to Karen , thanks, posted by Jai Narayan on December 9, 2003, at 14:01:53
Jai,
You are welcome. I realize as I post on here, that I too become vulnerable. Even rereading before posting doesn't always catch it either! I notice a lot after I read old posts just how vulnerable I allow myself to become. But, what can you do? I do notice that Larry isn't always appreciative of affectiate terms. I, on the other hand am. So, if you feel the need to use them, don't waste them on him, use plenty of them on me!!! Maybe that is just the realiionship that he prefers to have with people on this board. Whereas some people prefer to use affectionate terms, others do not.
I really hope that I do not start a big mess here. What I'm trying to do is focus on the ways that different people communicate. I, on one hand use terms like hun and darling without a second thought. Others may avoid terms like that.
There, I was being honest with you honey. But, don't take too much of what everyone says to heart. I do think that everyone on this board is here with a purpose, and that is for support. And, I am here to support you as well. But, don't forget to support yourself. Feel free to defend yourself if it is warranted. And I will do the same for you too! :)
Karen
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:12:43
In reply to boundaries on babble street » Jai Narayan, posted by Medusa on December 10, 2003, at 9:50:38
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:19:57
In reply to Re: nightmare on babble street » Jai Narayan, posted by Susan J on December 10, 2003, at 9:54:28
Posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 20:42:29
In reply to thank you I totally appreciated your input (nm), posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:19:57
Well at least I've been somewhere that seems similar. I've been really eager to connect with people, and gotten crushes (innocent platonic ones I thought) and then when I thought I was just being playful, people reacted as though I'd done something terribly socially and even sexually inappropriate. I was mortified. Cast out. The butt of jokes and rumors. Disbelieved when I tried to explain myself. It's painful to remember.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:48:06
In reply to Re: gosh, I'm really sorry. » Karen_kay, posted by Larry Hoover on December 10, 2003, at 6:26:21
Dear Larry, I am so sorry, I really had no idea you were being so put upon. I just really didn't know how much pain I was putting you through. I feel terrible. I never meant to hurt you...I feel like such a jerk.
Sorry.Jai Narayan
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 21:03:05
In reply to Re: I've been there » Jai Narayan, posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 20:42:29
I am just having a good cry. I feels so bad. It feels like I did something really really bad. I feel like a child who has been really really bad. but I'm not a child, I am an adult....go figure. It must be deeper than I thought...I am reacting to something real old. This morning it felt like my mother scolding me about my loving my dad. I had a good cry in the shower...I felt better now I feel worse...what did I do??? It just seems like I didn't see, hear, pay attention to what effect I was having on Larry.
Larry is such a good guy.
I guess I will move through this too.
Jai Narayan
Posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 21:40:25
In reply to Well then you do understand, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 21:03:05
It's good you made the connection to your dad. How awful to get the message that loving your dad was wrong. Can you send comforting messages to the little girl who loved her dad so much, and then got scolded for it?
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 21:54:36
In reply to Re: Well then you do understand » Jai Narayan, posted by tabitha on December 10, 2003, at 21:40:25
> It's good you made the connection to your dad. How awful to get the message that loving your dad was wrong. Can you send comforting messages to the little girl who loved her dad so much, and then got scolded for it?
There is something very healing to know...the connection.
But I am unraveling....like a ball of yarn...just rolling out....rolling.....
Posted by fallsfall on December 11, 2003, at 7:35:45
In reply to Re: Well then you do understand, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 21:54:36
Do you have a therapist who can help you with this? The intensity of those "old" feelings is amazing, and it can be so hard to sort through by yourself. You are definately on the right track.
Good luck with this, and we'll look forward to seeing you here on Babble.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 11, 2003, at 8:24:45
In reply to Re: Well then you do understand » Jai Narayan, posted by fallsfall on December 11, 2003, at 7:35:45
> Do you have a therapist who can help you with this? The intensity of those "old" feelings is amazing, and it can be so hard to sort through by yourself. You are definately on the right track.
>
thanks for responding I am just sorting that out. I am just discovering old information about my mother too. She had six breakdowns and each one was a hospitalization. They started with my birth and for almost every year to my 10th b-day. That's just the first 10 years of my life? I'm taking it one decade at a time.
So there's so much stress in my life right now I guess it all seems to be coming at once.
One of my rules in my life is "do no harm". So I was really upset that infact I had broken that rule...I was so unconscious of my toxic effect on Larry. Honestly I thought we were both having fun....
> Good luck with this, and we'll look forward to seeing you here on Babble.
I appreciate your input.
Jai Narayan
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 11, 2003, at 11:18:21
In reply to I read all the signs wrong, posted by Jai Narayan on December 10, 2003, at 20:48:06
> Dear Larry, I am so sorry, I really had no idea you were being so put upon. I just really didn't know how much pain I was putting you through. I feel terrible. I never meant to hurt you...I feel like such a jerk.
> Sorry.
>
> Jai NarayanYour apology is accepted. And I believe you.
I'm sorry it came to hurt feelings on both sides.
The many people who have posted have been very helpful to me....helped me see more clearly what the issues are. I couldn't have done that on my own, which was, in some respects, part of the reason it was so hard on me. I knew something was making me quite uncomfortable, and I was having a lot of trouble figuring it out.
I can key in on one thing now, and I'm hoping you see this as a constructive description. There was a disconnect, an incongruity, between your words and your actions, as I saw them. In metaphorical terms, I felt you stepping on my toes, but even as I backed off, and you acknowledged my perception, my toes were stepped on again.
I want to emphasize the point....that is how I saw things unfold.
And that leads to another thing I need to say. I'm here for reasons of my own. I don't know how I'm perceived, really. All I have are clues. I'm just another guy. I have my own demons. My own historical dramas. I strongly suspect there is something in my past which has been reactivated during this time. In a reaction of self-protection, I overtly described my boundaries....and for some reason it wasn't enough. I own my reaction, and in all that I've said, I've tried to stay in me. Not blaming. Not pointing outwards. I've tried to inform you about me, and my feelings.
If I have failed in that, to own my part, and not to assign blame, then I am sorry for that, specifically. But I am also generally sorry, genuinely sorry, that this whole thing happened this way.
Lar
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 11, 2003, at 15:04:25
In reply to Re: I read all the signs wrong » Jai Narayan, posted by Larry Hoover on December 11, 2003, at 11:18:21
> Your apology is accepted. And I believe you.
>
thank you.
> I'm sorry it came to hurt feelings on both sides.
>
me2
> The many people who have posted have been very helpful to me....helped me see more clearly what the issues are. I couldn't have done that on my own, which was, in some respects, part of the reason it was so hard on me. I knew something was making me quite uncomfortable, and I was having a lot of trouble figuring it out.
>
It's funny when you asked me if you could wave to me when you were driving through an area....where would that be? I timidly said my state...I was scared...it seemed like too much information to give you (someone I really didn't know). I acted brave and told you but I was freaked out about it. I really didn't want you to see me or really know me in person. I liked the sense of safety that this board gave me. I got scared and lost my center. It's a funny thing about disfunctional families, I had to be the brave one always...because of all the stuff that happened to me during these brave times I think I got frozen behind a brave exterior. Like when I shared that I had been molested....I was dying that I had said that. I felt so vulnerable. It's hard to share so much and have it just hanging out there in cyber space.> I can key in on one thing now, and I'm hoping you see this as a constructive description. There was a disconnect, an incongruity, between your words and your actions, as I saw them.
there was a definate place where I got lost and scared.>In metaphorical terms, I felt you stepping on my toes, but even as I backed off, and you acknowledged my perception, my toes were stepped on again.
>
ouch!
> And that leads to another thing I need to say. I'm here for reasons of my own. I don't know how I'm perceived, really. All I have are clues. I'm just another guy. I have my own demons. My own historical dramas. I strongly suspect there is something in my past which has been reactivated during this time. In a reaction of self-protection, I overtly described my boundaries....and for some reason it wasn't enough. I own my reaction, and in all that I've said, I've tried to stay in me. Not blaming. Not pointing outwards. I've tried to inform you about me, and my feelings.
>
I guess I was kind of dense. I kept telling myself it was all sweet and light but we talked about such heavy topics. I felt like some closeness had happened and I so enjoyed sharing about my life and family. I especially loved sharing the stories of the canoeing and birds. I just got more open and more scared of being so open at the same time.
> If I have failed in that, to own my part, and not to assign blame, then I am sorry for that, specifically. But I am also generally sorry, genuinely sorry, that this whole thing happened this way.
>
me2
Jai Narayan
Posted by tealady on December 11, 2003, at 18:37:45
In reply to I am almost afraid to respond, posted by Jai Narayan on December 11, 2003, at 15:04:25
I knew how upset Lar was and I'm glad this has been sorted out.
Jan
Posted by tabitha on December 11, 2003, at 19:33:01
In reply to therapy, posted by Jai Narayan on December 11, 2003, at 8:24:45
> One of my rules in my life is "do no harm". So I was really upset that infact I had broken that rule...
Jai, it is great that you are concerned with the feelings of others, but I would modify that rule a little. How about 'do no intentional harm'? Other people have their own issues and you can trigger them without knowing or meaning to. With a rule like that you might be unnecessarily hard on yourself when you do unintentionally bring up pain for someone else.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 9:33:39
In reply to Re: therapy, posted by tabitha on December 11, 2003, at 19:33:01
> > One of my rules in my life is "do no harm". So I was really upset that infact I had broken that rule...
>
> Jai, it is great that you are concerned with the feelings of others, but I would modify that rule a little. How about 'do no intentional harm'? Other people have their own issues and you can trigger them without knowing or meaning to.
<<good point.
> With a rule like that you might be unnecessarily hard on yourself when you do unintentionally bring up pain for someone else.
<what's mine and what's someone else's pain, it's hard sometime to pull the two apart....
Inside the "do no harm" includes myself.
I want to thank you for your kind and supportive words...it is helping me to move through this painful situation. I'm trying not to feel a kind of deadness inside....part of me has a negative feeling for this site now. Part of me never wants to come back here again. I was not protected from pain but neither was anyone else. I was too open and excited about every post I got from Larry Hoover and sent post I sent to him. Now I just feel shutdown and numb.
A while ago someone sent me a warning....to not be so naive. I was rather wide eyed and impressed with the tenents of this site. I am still impressed with the intention but honestly sometimes pain can't be avoided.
I can't step away and say: I was just a fool...or they were just meanies...
It was a huge ball a wax...full of lot's of stuff to learn from...I hope to grow from it and keep my eyes open. I just have to get through all the pain.
I am so lost now about Larry Hoover...I feel clueless about who he is. I was so sure I knew who he was. I guess it's just the flip side of riding on that sureness. I am now afraid to post anything directly to him or to ask him questions. I hope I get over that because he is such a wealth of information and support. Maybe he never wants to hear from me again?thanks for your support.
Jai Narayan
Posted by Medusa on December 12, 2003, at 13:52:27
In reply to Re: therapy, posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 9:33:39
Hi Jai, I hope it's okay if I jump in here and point out some things I've had to learn about situations like this ...
I've noticed some either/or, black/white thinking and feeling in your posts.
>kind of deadness inside....It seems like before, you felt very alive with your connection to Larry. Am I right? And now since the misunderstanding, you feel shutdown and numb and dead.
I've definitely experienced a lot of *either* wildly alive *or* dead feelings, and pretty sudden switches between the two.
Thing is, there is an infinite number of shades of grey between black and white. Could you consciously make an effort to carve out (mixing/switching metaphors here, sorry) some additional options for yourself?
This is a +lot+ harder than I make it sound. Last year, I was taking a hobby workshop, and I said something pretty stupid. I wanted to crawl into the ground, to disappear. I knew for sure that I never wanted to come back. But I saw what was going on - this all-or-nothing thinking and FEELING - and so I made myself go back. I still go. I've said a few other things that really weren't so bright or appropriate. And I might not be the instructor's favorite course-taker, but she doesn't spit at me when I walk in. In fact, she often seems happy to see me, and she's done some really nice things for me. If I think of some of the socially inept things I've said there, I'd still really rather never see the instructor again, but then I tell myself that nobody's 100% socially together. And that I'm constantly improving, and it's things like forcing myself to go back, to keep keeping on, that help me to grow, and reduce the likelihood of future doofus moves.
> A while ago someone sent me a warning....to
> not be so naive.Not sure what that was, or who it was from, but nobody's 100% popular, and that's for a lot of different reasons.
> I was so sure I knew who he was. I guess it's
> just the flip side of riding on that sureness.Instead of as two sides of a coin, maybe you could set up the knowing / not knowing on a spectrum. Let's say Larry Hoover knows himself better than anyone else does. Well, even he isn't all the way at the 100% knowing end of the spectrum. You got a few bits and pieces of the Real Live Larry, and then you weren't all the way at the 0% knowing point any more. Could you explore some of the %s between 0 and 100 and see how they feel?
>I am now afraid to post anything directly to
>him or to ask him questions.One thing I do when I'm in a situation like this is wait and see what the other person does. It takes practice to get comfortable with this - the first few (hundred?) times I tried this, it was purely exercise and I was really really jumpy. But I've now practiced enough that I can feel the calm. This isn't a passive thing - when they make the next move, you can actively decide how to respond. If they don't make any move, you're empowered with very interesting information.
>Maybe he never wants to hear from me again?Could be. Or it could be that he has his own issues with all of this, had (is still having?) his own reactions to work through, and that really none of this had to do with you as a person.
I know it's really, really hard to let go, so don't try. Maybe you could, though, use this as a chance to try the active waiting -and seeing - exercise I mentioned.
There are things that can make the waiting exercise more like a game. Let me know if you'd like examples.
I don't know if humor helps any, but you didn't commit any absolutely unforgiveable act, or even anything really hideous. Have you heard the Shania Twain song, "Get You Good" - ? Let's say you'd shown up on Larry's doorstep dancing and singing this:
"You're a fine piece of real estate, and I'm gonna get me some land
"So, don't try to run - honey, love can be fun
There's no need to be alone - when you find that someone"I'm gonna getcha while I gotcha in sight
I'm gonna getcha if it takes all night
You can betcha by the time I say "go," you'll never say "no"
I'm gonna getcha, it's a matter of fact
I'm gonna getcha, don'tcha worry 'bout that
You can bet your bottom dollar, in time you're gonna be mine
Just like I should - I'll getcha good"I've already planned it - here's how it's gonna be
I'm gonna love you and - you're gonna fall in love with me"Yeah, I'm gonna getcha baby - I'm gonna knock on wood
I'm gonna getcha somehow honey - yeah, I'm gonna make it good"
Now if you'd done *that*, he might never want to see or hear from you again. (Especially if you were wearing that space suit Shania has on in the video.) The way things are now, it's probably not that extreme.Hang in there Jai. And you know what, your experience might give you perspective that could be helpful for me. I'm going to post a question in a new thread, and I'd appreciate your input.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 17:19:50
In reply to never and other big words, posted by Medusa on December 12, 2003, at 13:52:27
> Hi Jai, I hope it's okay if I jump in here and point out some things I've had to learn about situations like this ...
>
> I've noticed some either/or, black/white thinking and feeling in your posts.
>
I know....so much gray, grey...why two different spellings??? Gray enough to go around. I know....all that....why didn't I remember that??? It's funny about emotions...they are so black or white....While the mind has a choice of all these variable colors. I guess the worst feeling is shame...some how that kicks in when I have hurt people like this. That feeling sends me into black and white.
>
> >kind of deadness inside....
that comes with the shame and guilt....I swear I am not into guilt or shame but here it is knocking at my door.
> It seems like before, you felt very alive with your connection to Larry. Am I right? And now since the misunderstanding, you feel shutdown and numb and dead.
>
some how Larry was the first person to pay any attention to me and give me some kind energy, ask me questions so I kind of associated him with the site. So my feelings seem to go up with that and now go down with that....you have to admit this has not been a quiet little connection.
> But I And that I'm constantly improving, and it's things like forcing myself to go back, to keep keeping on, that help me to grow, and reduce the likelihood of future doofus moves.
<I totally appreciate your sharing....
> > A while ago someone sent me a warning....to
> > not be so naive.
That was in connection with the blocking of Destroyo and his group said they could not cope on the psycho babble site so they had another site to go to...to really talk.
> Instead of as two sides of a coin, maybe you could set up the knowing / not knowing on a spectrum. Let's say Larry Hoover knows himself better than anyone else does. Well, even he isn't all the way at the 100% knowing end of the spectrum. You got a few bits and pieces of the Real Live Larry, and then you weren't all the way at the 0% knowing point any more. Could you explore some of the %s between 0 and 100 and see how they feel?
>
Yup, boy isn't that the truth. We can sometimes know ourselves better than anyone else can know us. I guess I go into lala-land with this site....I start to think all these fear thoughts....so who is this person....who are these people...did I tell them where I live!!! Are they really mad at me and will do me harm? You know the fear thoughts....you just start to wonder who you thought someone was and suddenly they seem different and then you get scared....what did I say, how much did I tell. Suddenly you wish you had kept your mouth shut and just listened and read the posts and said nothing...you know the world looks hostile kind of stuff.
> One thing I do when I'm in a situation like this is wait and see what the other person does. It takes practice to get comfortable with this - the first few (hundred?) times I tried this, it was purely exercise and I was really really jumpy. But I've now practiced enough that I can feel the calm. This isn't a passive thing - when they make the next move, you can actively decide how to respond. If they don't make any move, you're empowered with very interesting information.
<I want to shut up for good. but as you can see I am not a shut up kind of gal....babble..babble...I am so ready to communciate. God help me.
> There are things that can make the waiting exercise more like a game. Let me know if you'd like examples.
<I am no longer waiting to communicate, I kind of dread communication. I feel (not think) like I can "do no right".
> I don't know if humor helps any, but you didn't commit any absolutely unforgiveable act, or even anything really hideous.
<Humor always works for me...I love to laugh. It breaks up all sorts of blockages. thanks it was funny and I love her songs.
> Hang in there Jai. And you know what, your experience might give you perspective that could be helpful for me. I'm going to post a question in a new thread, and I'd appreciate your input.
<I hope I find it.
Your post name is kind of awesome...Medusa the woman with all the snakes for hair...at one time in my life a man said I reminded him of Medusa...I really didn't know what to think of that...
Thank you so much. I had fun and learned some...I love to learn from humor.
Jai Narayan
Posted by tabitha on December 12, 2003, at 17:20:17
In reply to Re: therapy, posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 9:33:39
Jai, you are new to Babble and new to forums, right? Like anyplace new there can be a honeymoon phase where it all seems wonderful and perfect, then something happens and you get disillusioned. I have gone through that here, and with new jobs, new relationships, lots of places. It's difficult to adjust your expectations from your rose-colored view down towards reality.
I found for myself that the only way to get over my pattern of idealizing and chasing people was to stop giving in to the impulse to chase them. I treated it sort of like an addiction or compulsion. Whenever I was acting from that desperate need to pursue the 'object', I had to stop myself. I needed a lot of support from my therapist to do this.
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 17:57:47
In reply to Re: therapy » Jai Narayan, posted by tabitha on December 12, 2003, at 17:20:17
> Jai, you are new to Babble and new to forums, right? Like anyplace new there can be a honeymoon phase where it all seems wonderful and perfect, then something happens and you get disillusioned. I have gone through that here, and with new jobs, new relationships, lots of places. It's difficult to adjust your expectations from your rose-colored view down towards reality.
>
<hit that right on the nose
> I found for myself that the only way to get over my pattern of idealizing and chasing people was to stop giving in to the impulse to chase them. I treated it sort of like an addiction or compulsion. Whenever I was acting from that desperate need to pursue the 'object', I had to stop myself. I needed a lot of support from my therapist to do this.
<well if you have any helpful hints...I have fallen into the same rut.
Thanks
Jai Narayan
Posted by Larry Hoover on December 14, 2003, at 10:14:57
In reply to Re: therapy, posted by Jai Narayan on December 12, 2003, at 9:33:39
> Maybe he never wants to hear from me again?
I never use the word never.
Lar
Posted by Jai Narayan on December 14, 2003, at 10:24:53
In reply to Re: therapy » Jai Narayan, posted by Larry Hoover on December 14, 2003, at 10:14:57
> > Maybe he never wants to hear from me again?
> I never use the word never.
> Lar
Thanks Lar
Jai Narayan
This is the end of the thread.
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