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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
I am very lonely right now. It is because my husband is away. But more than that, when he is home, we are so seperated. I remember what our relationship was like. We used to have fun. We used to enjoy each other.
It used to be that we were comfortable whether we were talking or not. Now the silences are deafening and hostile.
I ask myself if it is too late to save what we had. Have I driven the love of my life away? Am I destined to be alone the rest of my life? Can I survive yet another divorce? The first was hard enough. I never loved him the way I love my husband now. He is the love of my life.
Is this what depression is supposed to teach us? That when we wallow in our sadness, we lose everything that is important? Please say it isn't so.
Of all my regrets from my past, none would top the loss of my husband. He is everything to me. Why can't I show it anymore? Where have I gone?
-Miller
Posted by leeran on April 13, 2003, at 5:16:12
In reply to Lonely, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
Miller,
I'm very new here. That said, I hope you won't think I'm butting in.
Your feelings come through (in your post) as so sincere that I can't imagine that your husband won't feel/see the same thing.
Gosh, would you be able to write those same words (edited somewhat) in a card so he could read with his own eyes how devoted you are to him and to your marriage?
I understand your concerns that your depression has isolated you from him but the fact that you can see that and want to repair any possible damage really seems to be a step in the right direction.
I am on my third marriage (I never can believe those words - even when I see them in front of me after just typing them). My first marriage lasted thirteen years and it was so empty. My second marriage was just a crazy mid-life mistake that lasted all of fifteen months..
I am now married to the person I feel I was intended to find and make a life with. We've been married almost four years and unlike the other marriages this one gets continually better - versus spiraling downward.
This all sounds rosy, doesn't it? And it is. However, a little over a year ago we had a very devastating blow when the firm he was working for let him go without any notice. Little did we know that he was the first to go and other directors would soon follow because they were on the brink of going out of business (and did go out of business six months later).
This was such a shock to my husband, who is one of the most conscientious, hard-working people I have ever met. It was a shock to me as well, because for the first time in my life I wasn't the major breadwinner and was more or less enjoying a big sigh of relief by working at home and being able to be "semi-retired." I felt like the wind had been totally knocked out of me and so did he.
Quite honestly, it could have been a "deal breaker" in that the stress was so intense at times. Neither of my previous marriages would have been solid enough to withstand such a crisis. In retrospect, it doesn't seem as horrid as it did at the time - but for me, after making a decent income for years and being so independent I suddenly felt almost betrayed (I know - it sounds incredibly selfish of me, and it was).
My point in telling you this is that during this crisis there were times when I shut my husband out completely (something I'm not proud of). I don't handle stress well at all and suddenly all the security and safety I had felt with him seemed nonexistent.
Fortunately, a knock is sometimes a boost and it turns out that he is now with a far better and much more successful firm and because the firm that let him go was still somewhat solvent, he was one of the few that actually received severance pay.
Had someone asked me during that time period if we would survive that kind of stress so early in our marriage I probably would have said "no."
But, we did.
The stress did create a lot of distance but that distance can be conquered. We were able to bridge the distance in less time than you would think.
Miller, I don't think it is too late to save what you have.
You know how everyone was writing the ten good things about the day (above)? I think you wrote a list as well (I'm remembering cat treats?).
I'm a big "list maker" – usually endless lists of things I have to do, but just writing that list of things that made today (or now, yesterday) a good day actually seemed to make my day a big brighter.
What if you wrote a list of the ten things that made your marriage so good - then leave room for another column to make notes about what is still good, what needs improving, etc.
You can create a one page game plan right on paper and once you've got it written down, who knows, you may find that it doesn't seem like such an insurmountable task.
Do you like to read? As I get older I really prefer magazines (an attention span thing with me - sad, since one of my majors was English) but one book I've read that's very inspiring is called "Only Love is Real" by Brian L. Weiss, M.D.
You can probably read about it on Amazon if you're interested.
The basic premise is that soul mates have a driving need to find one another. It’s supposedly based on the true story of two patients that this psychiatrist saw separately.
It's a very inspiring love story and I remember feeling great hope after reading it several years ago.I can easily see that you have great love for your husband. You showed me, just a casual observer, with your heartfelt words that this person means the world to you. If I could see it - a stranger sitting here at another computer in the middle of the night - I'm sure your husband will be able to see it as well.
My dad has always given me many little pearls of wisdom throughout my life. I'll relay two of them.
My father was a football coach for years and one year he found these pins that read "You've Gotta Wanna." He more or less built the season (a winning one) around that slogan, meaning "you've got to WANT to win before you CAN win"
But it applies to any situation - you really do "gotta wanna" in order to make things happen. That want or need is the fuel for getting you over the finish line. Recognizing that a want or need exists can help get you moving in the right direction - and as you start moving, you'll gain more and more momentum.
One of his other sayings was that marriage is a 60-40 proposition (this always makes me sad because, for him it was a theory only because he and my mom have never had a happy marriage).
By 60-40 he meant the following -
If (as a rule) you put 60% into a marriage - and only take out 40%, and if your partner puts in 60% and only takes out 40% the result will be a good marriage.
When you think about it - it's very true. When you put the emphasis on GIVING 60% it takes the emphasis off of what you think you're GETTING out of the marriage.
I read one of Sar's old posts (someone mentioned her and I did a search to read up on what she was like) and she mentioned that one of her great joys was giving of herself at that hospital she was committed to. I thought that was such a beautiful thing to say because it was obvious that she was in a lot of pain, but the pain was eased by giving to others.
Having grown up with a very, very depressed mother - and battling my own depression - I know that the big “D” can make us so introspective. We end up, for a time, being so focused on ourselves simply because our pain doesn't give us much of a choice to do otherwise.
BUT, I truly think there is the opportunity for great growth to come from pain. I feel the pain in your post but I also see a great desire to move away from the pain.
You ask "where have I gone?" but I think, Miller, that you are right here, where you should be. Ready to move past the pain and tend to what needs to be mended. Sometimes we have to "go away" in spirit because of our depression. But the law of gravity says that what goes down must come up (or did Blood, Sweat and Tears just sing that and I thought it sounded like scientific law??? :)
Maybe a start would be trying to diffuse the hostility you mentioned. I think you will be surprised to find that it won't take long to clear the air.
Take good care of yourself. I just have really good, positive feelings that you will work this out.
Lee
Posted by fi on April 13, 2003, at 12:59:39
In reply to Lonely, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
Have you considered talking to someone about this, like a relationship counsellor or pdoc if you have one?
There might be ways you could both work on the relationship. Or it might be that once your depression lifts (or if he understands it more), that the distance wont be so great? Your love for him comes across very clearly- does he know how you feel?
Please consider getting some help before you 'fast forward' into worrying about coping with another divorce, and if you would have another relationship? Tho I know very well that its easy to get into such worries.
I'm glad you posted here, so you have made contact with other people. I live on my own and have just spent 9 days on my own, tho able to get out of the house. Had one chatty phone call and several email chats with distant friends, and a doctors appointment. But otherwise no contact except being in the same place as other people- and posting to this board.
So I hope that you will also find that this is one way that you can deal with the loneliness just a little.
I've also found that posting here (and emailing friends) is very easy to do, when you feel too awful for a social phone call.
Good luck.
Fi
Posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 16:44:02
In reply to Lonely, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
> I am very lonely right now. It is because my husband is away. But more than that, when he is home, we are so seperated. I remember what our relationship was like. We used to have fun. We used to enjoy each other.
>
> It used to be that we were comfortable whether we were talking or not. Now the silences are deafening and hostile.
>
> I ask myself if it is too late to save what we had. Have I driven the love of my life away? Am I destined to be alone the rest of my life? Can I survive yet another divorce? The first was hard enough. I never loved him the way I love my husband now. He is the love of my life.
>
> Is this what depression is supposed to teach us? That when we wallow in our sadness, we lose everything that is important? Please say it isn't so.
>
> Of all my regrets from my past, none would top the loss of my husband. He is everything to me. Why can't I show it anymore? Where have I gone?
>
> -Miller
>
>Miller,
I can't even begin to tell you how much I understand. My crazy behaviour (alternately either my depression or hostility/suspicion) has driven him away from me so many times.And I love him so much that it scares me to think of what I would do without him.
If you just try to let him know how much he means to you and somehow try to show him how hard your trying. I know it's easier said than done. They don't believe you're trying when your behavior says otherwise to them.
If I can get him relaxed (alcohol works wonders for our relationship - not good, right?) he is a lot more receptive to me. It's when he is stressed out that I fear losing him. How can he be expected to handle my problems when he is dealing with so many of his own (almost always work related).
And he, too, travels, but fortunately not as often as he has in the past. I always feel the absolute loneliest during these times, especially if the traveling is on the weekend. I feel that this is one reason we have been getting along better lately. My mood, in general, is much better than it has been in a long time. I keep wondering how long it will last and will the next wave of depression or anxiety be even worse? Mine do keep getting worse.
I know how it feels to love someone so much, and to need them and to feel so distant from them. You can cry on my shoulder anytime.
PS Although it's often the last thing we feel like sex works wonders. They need it so much, even when they don't act like it and they really want to believe that we are as into it as they are. Don't know if this applies to you, though.
Posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 21:28:57
In reply to Re: Lonely » Miller, posted by WorryGirl on April 13, 2003, at 16:44:02
Well, he is home now. He has said maybe 0 words to me. That is only because he was answering direct questions.
We go to a marriage counsellor. He is still trying to decide if he wants to stay married. We don't sleep in the same room anymore.
I have tried to tell him how much I love him. Because of my two suicide attempts (2 in 6 weeks) he is a little hesitant to believe me. I honestly thing the only reason he is even going to therapy with me is to prove to his family that he tried. (His family adores me.)
I am so lost and sad. There's nothing else for me to say. :(
-Miller
Posted by white rabbit on April 14, 2003, at 8:29:51
In reply to Thanks..., posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 21:28:57
I'm going through the same thing as you, the only difference being that my husband has already made up his mind, sure enough. There's nothing I can do about it and for awhile, I thought the feeling of rejection was going to kill me.
Still, in the back of my mind, this tiny little voice keeps telling me that he's doing both of us a favor by demanding this separation. To be honest, he's been making me unhappy for a very long time. I gave him way too much power over me,
he could make me so happy or so miserable with just a few words, and I'm now just starting to realize that this isn't right. It's not right.
Nobody should have that kind of control over me.
It's time for me to take back control, to be responsible for my own happiness.Once I can do that, what he says or does will no longer matter to me, and I'll be free.
-Gracie
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 10:55:21
In reply to Miller, posted by white rabbit on April 14, 2003, at 8:29:51
i see now that i am alone,
you are aone,
we are alone together.
no one wil make it better for us..
no man,
no pill,
no drink,
its time to shake ourselves off and begin a new day...
what day is it anyway:(
peace
jyl
Posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 13:38:53
In reply to no one but yourself:(, posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 10:55:21
I really think I could cry an entire ocean for all the hurt that comes our way. Yes, God created us with free will. By doing so, he left our hearts open for such pain and devastation. The people I love and care about, I am helpless to comfort, I am unable to comfort myself, and as much as we try, this bored won't heal my heart.
The support is appreciated. And the shared experiences make me feel less alone. I am still sad, lonely, and on the brink of despair.
I am so sorry if my "ugly" is showing. I am just too sad for reality. And reality is inescapable.
-weepy Miller
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 13:43:46
In reply to Tears for us all, posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 13:38:53
i wish i could be there for you..i feel so helpless over here..
hang in there sweet jyl...
be strong,
dont you ever give up.
love
Posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 15:13:53
In reply to sweet weepy miller » Miller, posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 13:43:46
Thanks for your support. I wish you were here, too. I am sure I will survive. But right now I am so terribly unhappy.
I hope you are doing better today. Don't let my tears drag you down. I'm glad I found this site. It helps to know there is somewhere I can vent.
-Weepy Miller
Posted by Dr. Bob on April 14, 2003, at 16:23:43
In reply to Re: Lonely » Miller, posted by leeran on April 13, 2003, at 5:16:12
> Do you like to read? As I get older I really prefer magazines (an attention span thing with me - sad, since one of my majors was English) but one book I've read that's very inspiring is called "Only Love is Real" by Brian L. Weiss, M.D.
I'd just like to plug the double double quotes feature at this site:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#amazon
The first time anyone refers to a book without using this option, I post this to try to make sure he or she at least knows about it. It's just an option, though, and doesn't *have* to be used. If people *choose* not to use it, I'd be interested why not, but I'd like that redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20020918/msgs/7717.html
Thanks!
Bob
Posted by fi on April 14, 2003, at 16:43:01
In reply to Re: Lonely » Miller, posted by leeran on April 13, 2003, at 5:16:12
Just trying this function. Takes a bit of extra sorting that I wouldnt be up to on worse days, and not sure if I will get it right, but here goes..
I was surprised that the books (and tapes) that help me survive are still in print. They're by Claire Weekes and are oldfashioned in manner and titles (she wrote them in the early 70s, I think), but are actually immensely reassuring and supportive when you are swamped in anxiety. Some of the medication info is not current, but its not mentioned much. I find the tapes more immediately helpful, but I'm not sure how many are still available.
Anyway, an example of one is "Hope and Help for Your Nerves" I know it is on Amazon as I've checked (if the link doesnt work). Search on 'weekes' for a fuller list.
Fi
Posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 16:52:53
In reply to Books that help me, anyway, posted by fi on April 14, 2003, at 16:43:01
Fi,
Thanks for trying to help. To be honest, I am not really up to reading right now. However, when I have a better attitude, I generally become more interested. I am reading a book that was recommended on this site a long time ago. I just got into it, but everyone here who read it seemed to like it. "Waking up alive" Author: Heckler. I had a rough time getting it. He seems to change publishers a lot. I bought it used. Either way, once I feel better I will continue reading it.
-Miller
Posted by Greg A. on April 14, 2003, at 17:06:31
In reply to Lonely, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
To the depressed women who feel they are driving their husbands away:
I am male, married for almost 25 years, depressed and have been off and on (mostly on) for a long time. My wife is sensitive and caring. She would like to be supportive of me and help in any way she can. She often does not know what to do to help and often there is nothing she can do except allow me to be sick. In return I am very often cold and uncommunicative. I do not share how I am feeling with her. I don’t tell her my fears or that I am suicidal or that I am barely functioning at work. And yet I sort of expect her to know these things and when she doesn’t I resent that.
Is it part of depression that little things annoy me about my wife? Is it part of the illness that I think someone else will make me feel better when I know that the chances of finding someone else who could even tolerate my moods are nil? Or is that just a middle age male thing?
I reveal most of my feelings to other ill people. This is not surprising, as most of us have found a kinship with people who suffer from the same problems. We do not fear rejection or ridicule from someone who understands. I am sure my wife would try to understand . . . but it’s hard for her to offer anything. So I shut her out.
Posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 17:15:07
In reply to Re: Lonely, posted by Greg A. on April 14, 2003, at 17:06:31
greg,
that was very touching,
why dont you print it off ,
i bet it will be a gift for her..
peace
jyl
Posted by noa on April 14, 2003, at 17:50:25
In reply to no one but yourself:(, posted by justyourlaugh on April 14, 2003, at 10:55:21
I like that, jyl. And the last line really zings it for the whole poem!
Posted by noa on April 14, 2003, at 17:51:43
In reply to My friend..., posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 15:13:53
Miller, I wish I had some words of wisdom, but I don't. But I'm sorry it is so lousy.
Posted by Dinah on April 14, 2003, at 21:19:12
In reply to Lonely, posted by Miller on April 13, 2003, at 1:47:00
Hey, Miller. Are you so certain he has no commitment left to the marriage? I remember the other day you spoke about how nice he was being.
If there is no commitment left on his part, I don't suppose there is much you can do about it, but things don't have to go as badly as that. Marriages can be renewed.
My husband is a very compulsive perfectionist type. Between his anger and perfectionism and my distancing myself, our marriage is sometimes nothing but commitment. But I think he is making a real effort to change, lately. And it's amazing how little it takes on his part for me to remember what it was that I loved about him to begin with. We've been laughing and teasing and enjoying ourselves.
It's still not perfect. Hints of anger or rigidity from him cause me to overreact based on years of the same. And he overreacts when I'm not really here, based on years of my doing the same.
But it really is better. Sometimes it really is astonishing what can happen when one or the other in a relationship makes some changes to treat the other "as if".
Posted by fi on April 17, 2003, at 12:30:00
In reply to Re: Books that help me, anyway » fi, posted by Miller on April 14, 2003, at 16:52:53
Thanks for that. Of course, books take quite a bit of effort and concentration- when I'm not up to them I rely a lot on music, radio, TV and trashy magazines. Anything that passes the time.
Fi
Posted by WorryGirl on April 17, 2003, at 16:27:31
In reply to Re: Lonely » Miller, posted by Dinah on April 14, 2003, at 21:19:12
Miller,
I think Dinah is right. Don't give up hope yet, even if it seems like he has lost it. It's amazing what can happen when we least expect it (bad, and yes, also, good).Have a nice Easter weekend :)
This is the end of the thread.
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