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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
Does anyone feel like these forums may be causing more harm than good for themselves? What kind of harm did it cause? I think I recall in passing that a couple of posters mentioned their therapists weren't in favour of their participating or that they were trying to stay away from the board for their own good. I'm beginning to wonder if this is destructive for me. At the very least I am spending a lot of time here that could be spent doing something else. Of course I can only make that decision for myself. And even if I decide it was harmful it's not always easy to take action. For example I decided to stop watching TV but then I find myself spending more time here. It's really frustrating to me. I was just wondering about other's experience. And if you decided it was bad for you was it difficult to cut back? (I guess the ones that quit entirely wouldn't be here to answer.)
Also I wondered if anyone has found interacting with people online improved their communication skills with people in real life? I thought it would, but in my experience it's not the same at all. I feel really frustrated when I seem to be misunderstood online. And trying to clarify things just seems to make things worse. People in real life seem more likely to give people the benefit of the doubt without constant discussions of the meaning of civility. But now I wonder if they may be thinking something entirely different in their own minds. In a way the boards make real life seem more threatening than it was before. I guess my expectations were too high. Most of my interactions here have been on the admin board but I've read the others.
Without putting PB down in any way could anyone tell me of other forums that have a gentle tolerant atmosphere? Or is the problem me and the answer just to toughen myself up?Also I've been trying to find internet sites that could provide creative outlets for isolated people. Does anyone have any ideas? I think it might be best to channel my creative energies into playing the recorder rather than helping Bob define civility :-). I like these two:
http://www.visualthesaurus.com/index.jsp
http://www.dolmetsch.com/method.htm
Thanks
Posted by lostsailor on January 17, 2003, at 11:50:18
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
I usually find DR. Bob's great b/c you have to read what you don't want to and it seems to be used by well educated and, for the most part, nice people. MY doc, at first did not like me chatting and posting, but as my agoraphobia has gotten worse he see it as a great form of having "personal " relationships aside from those I run and cycle with.
For "live" chat I often go to www.healthyplace.com
Take care...we are all in this together.
~Tony
Posted by Dinah on January 17, 2003, at 12:20:19
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
Well, there's your problem. You spend too much time on the admin board and not enough on Social. :)
Misunderstandings happen here, perhaps a bit more frequently than in real life, but learning to deal with them is good practice.
I do find I'm being Dinah more in real life. Not all the time, but I'll notice myself doing it from time to time. My therapist loved the idea at first, because I am somewhat socially isolated and find it difficult to get into the rhythm of real life socializing. Then he hated it because I was upset all the time. Then he liked it again because I started being able to deal with the on board stuff better. I've even started to sometimes be able to decide when to step in to a conflict laden situation. It used to be necessary for me, and I still often do it. But every once in a while I don't. He thinks that's great.
So, it depends. If it's not benefiting you the way you're using it, why don't you try using it differently before you give up.
I enjoy your posts, and your way of looking at things, and I'd like to see you here on Social.
Dinah
Posted by mikhail99 on January 17, 2003, at 12:39:10
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
> Does anyone feel like these forums may be causing more harm than good for themselves? What kind of harm did it cause? I think I recall in passing that a couple of posters mentioned their therapists weren't in favour of their participating or that they were trying to stay away from the board for their own good. I'm beginning to wonder if this is destructive for me. At the very least I am spending a lot of time here that could be spent doing something else. Of course I can only make that decision for myself. And even if I decide it was harmful it's not always easy to take action. For example I decided to stop watching TV but then I find myself spending more time here. It's really frustrating to me. I was just wondering about other's experience. And if you decided it was bad for you was it difficult to cut back? (I guess the ones that quit entirely wouldn't be here to answer.)
I've found myself wondering similar things lately. I did mention this to my therapist but we didn't really discuss it in-depth. I guess maybe we should. I'm curious as to what he would think.
>
> Also I wondered if anyone has found interacting with people online improved their communication skills with people in real life? I thought it would, but in my experience it's not the same at all. I feel really frustrated when I seem to be misunderstood online. And trying to clarify things just seems to make things worse. People in real life seem more likely to give people the benefit of the doubt without constant discussions of the meaning of civility. But now I wonder if they may be thinking something entirely different in their own minds. In a way the boards make real life seem more threatening than it was before. I guess my expectations were too high. Most of my interactions here have been on the admin board but I've read the others.I'm not sure if this has improved my communications skills (not that I thought there was anything wrong with them to begin with. HA!)but it has allowed me a chance to empathize and support and that's more social behavior than I do in the "real" world. And your post is giving us all something to think about, how we interpret posts and do we give people the benefit of the doubt? I guess I'm guilty sometimes of not giving the benefit of the doubt but I never just fire off posts without thinking long and hard about how they could be interpreted. I try to imagine how I would feel to be at the receiving end of my post and take it from there. At the very least, if things start to get ugly, it does challenge us to find a way to state things diplomatically AND to be kinder if the situation warrants.
>
> Without putting PB down in any way could anyone tell me of other forums that have a gentle tolerant atmosphere? Or is the problem me and the answer just to toughen myself up?Being hypersensitive myself, I would NEVER tell anyone to toughen up. You may need to find a place that's a better fit for you but give the social board a shot and when you come across a subject that seems inflammatory, or a conflict that makes you uncomfortable, try to stay away from it. That's what I do anyway.
>
> Also I've been trying to find internet sites that could provide creative outlets for isolated people. Does anyone have any ideas? I think it might be best to channel my creative energies into playing the recorder rather than helping Bob define civility :-). I like these two:
>
> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/index.jsp
>
> http://www.dolmetsch.com/method.htm
>
>
> Thanks
>As for spending too much time on the boards, I'm just as guilty but I think it's pretty harmless. It's not like we're hanging out on pornography boards, right? :-) Seriously though, if you feel that it's become unhealthy for you to be here, then you should go with that feeling. However, please know that your posts are valued and you would be missed. I think for the most part, this is a good place to be and I really appreciate the challenges of communicating and different points of view.
I hope that helps (and that it made sense)!
Take care,
Mik
Posted by tina on January 17, 2003, at 13:38:31
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
Posted by Ginjoint on January 17, 2003, at 13:39:23
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
Hi Oddipus...
First, thanks for the link to the visual thesaurus! It made me smile when I was about to cry. Good timing!
But to the topic at hand...these boards make me sad when I read a post from someone who needs guidance or support, but I can't seem to think of a coherent response -- either because the poster has already exhausted all avenues I can think of, or I'm in too similar of a situation (I just thought of that old "I've fallen and I can't get up!" commercial, *snicker*), and I can't see around it either. It's very frustrating not being able to automatically type some magic or funny words to pull someone through. It's also disheartening realizing that there are such literate, kind, and humorous people out there who yet are in so much pain. So in that way, the boards don't always help me.
They do help by that old standby...making me aware that I'm not alone. That there are others who see and experience the world as I do.
The first time I was misunderstood online was surprisingly upsetting! Not having the advantage of hearing tonal inflections or seeing facial expressions can make online contact a minefield. But as I posted to different boards, and exchanged email with people I "knew" only from online, I learned to distance myself. However, I can see that that's extremely hard to do on a board that deals with very private deep-down feelings. The vulnerability level here can be pretty damn high.
BTW, I have very, very few people in my life (you mentioned isolation), and one creative outlet I have is painting. I listen to songs on the radio, or from my CD collection, and when I hear a lyric that jives with what I'm feeling, I paint a watercolor image based around that. Often the lyric is incorporated into the image. Sometimes I take the lyric out of context and work from there. Am I good? Hell no! My paintings look A LOT like a little kid's work. :) But I show them to my p-doc. It's easier for me to show an image than to verbalize what's going on. Hope this helps, and I hope you come to feel safe enough to stay, OddipusRex. The board benefits from your color and flavor.
Ginjoint
Posted by mair on January 17, 2003, at 14:13:14
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
This is a good thing to discuss; I and my therapist have been around and around this issue for awhile.
When I first came on it was just so wonderful for me to discover people who dealt with many of the same things as me - I found that I didn't have to explain things as well or in as much detail because everyone already knew what I was talking about. And I really do believe that over time, I found it easier to open up to other people about depression because I had alot of experience talking about it here and I had come to realize that my problems were hardly unique.
I also think there are other tangible values - I think it's good for me to help and support others when I'm able. I also think that it reinforces some of the things I discuss in therapy - I'll frequently find myself telling others things I have been told. For instance, if you tell another poster enough times how impermanent suicidal feelings might be, it becomes something I'm better able to say to myself when I'm very down.
Yes, but there are also downsides - there's no question that I sometimes spend far too much time here and get far too involved in Board disputes. I've also discovered that I can be hurt pretty easily by the way someone might react to a post - even if that reaction is just having no one respond to a post. Also, my therapist knows that I tend to synthesize and distill things alot before I'll talk to her about them, and she would prefer that I not do that. That distillation process pretty much happens for me on the Board or through email relationships I've developed with other posters. Also she gets concerned from time to time about how hurt i can get.
While my therapist used to be pretty dismissive about the internet, she has come to accept that it is a place where real relationships develop and relationship issues play out. She's not a person who is very computer saavy and I think she's learned alot from my experiences. So now, she views it as neither all good or all bad, but as something that she and I need to revisit periodically.
I also think that like Dinah, I've learned better how to pull myself away periodically whether that might take the form of not coming here for awhile, or choosing not to join in what I know will be a contentious or upsetting discussion.
Mair
Posted by mikhail99 on January 17, 2003, at 14:26:35
In reply to Re: Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by mair on January 17, 2003, at 14:13:14
Posted by Phyl on January 17, 2003, at 17:25:39
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
> Does anyone feel like these forums may be causing more harm than good for themselves? What kind of harm did it cause? I think I recall in passing that a couple of posters mentioned their therapists weren't in favour of their participating or that they were trying to stay away from the board for their own good. I'm beginning to wonder if this is destructive for me. At the very least I am spending a lot of time here that could be spent doing something else. Of course I can only make that decision for myself. And even if I decide it was harmful it's not always easy to take action. For example I decided to stop watching TV but then I find myself spending more time here. It's really frustrating to me. I was just wondering about other's experience. And if you decided it was bad for you was it difficult to cut back? (I guess the ones that quit entirely wouldn't be here to answer.)
>
> Also I wondered if anyone has found interacting with people online improved their communication skills with people in real life? I thought it would, but in my experience it's not the same at all. I feel really frustrated when I seem to be misunderstood online. And trying to clarify things just seems to make things worse. People in real life seem more likely to give people the benefit of the doubt without constant discussions of the meaning of civility. But now I wonder if they may be thinking something entirely different in their own minds. In a way the boards make real life seem more threatening than it was before. I guess my expectations were too high. Most of my interactions here have been on the admin board but I've read the others.
>
> Without putting PB down in any way could anyone tell me of other forums that have a gentle tolerant atmosphere? Or is the problem me and the answer just to toughen myself up?
>
> Also I've been trying to find internet sites that could provide creative outlets for isolated people. Does anyone have any ideas? I think it might be best to channel my creative energies into playing the recorder rather than helping Bob define civility :-). I like these two:
>
> http://www.visualthesaurus.com/index.jsp
>
> http://www.dolmetsch.com/method.htm
>
>
> Thanks>> I don't post on these boards too often. I am able to get out, go to a job, get out to a show once in awhile. But I'm not too social a person;I found myself almost "addicted" to these boards and was spending more and more time sitting here in front of the screen. My husband didn't think it was good for me,either. Now, I just occasionally check in to see how everyone is doing. I try not to come on every day.
I guess it depends on how much time you do spend. I see the same posters on various boards and I don't know HOW they can find the time to keep up with all of them. Would you consider 2 hours/night too much? I think I would. If someone is spending hours and hours a day on PB, I wouldn't think that would be good. Better to get out and sit under a tree (weather obliging), visit a museum, or go a library if possible. Read a book, listen to music...., just walk.
The thing is that when a poster drops out for awhile, others get very concerned and keep asking if they are ok. Maybe we need to say: Signing off for a week to do other things......
It's really such a personal thing, but I think the amount of time sitting in front of any screen, whether it be a computer or a television, should be kept to a reasonable length, with good breaks in between. It's "reasonable length" that might be difficult to define for some posters.Just my feelings.
Take care.
Posted by Dinah on January 17, 2003, at 19:11:24
In reply to Re: Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by mair on January 17, 2003, at 14:13:14
My therapist is the opposite of yours, Mair. He likes the way I process things here. I brought the post I wrote above to him, and he said that he had never understood things as clearly before. He agrees that I write better than I talk, and he often finds what I write here helpful when I bring it in.
I find that I can clarify things by "talking" about them here in the way that posts allow. You can let ideas simmer and then post more thoughtfully than you can speak (or at least more than I can speak).
Posted by shar on January 18, 2003, at 0:57:47
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
> Does anyone feel like these forums may be causing more harm than good for themselves?
.........not me. for me, a lot of good, rare harm. definitely not more harm than good. better than most real-time relationships.
>I'm beginning to wonder if this is destructive for me.
............the great thing about determining this is that it is pretty straightforward, imo. If you stay away from the board and feel better, you have your answer.
>(I guess the ones that quit entirely wouldn't be here to answer.)
..........you'd make a good researcher. That's exactly the kind of understanding absent from a lot of social science research.
>
> Also I wondered if anyone has found interacting with people online improved their communication skills with people in real life?..........for this forum, improvement has been more in knowledge (knowing what I'm talking about regarding meds, etc.) and ideas (when someone has a great suggestion that I can talk about or pass on to someone else). I guess I didn't expect that it would improve my ability to communicate in real-time. I do want that improvement, and my solution has been going to therapy, especially group therapy where the emphasis is on talking and one-on-one relationships within the group.
>I feel really frustrated when I seem to be misunderstood online. And trying to clarify things just seems to make things worse. People in real life seem more likely to give people the benefit of the doubt without constant discussions of the meaning of civility.
...........well, the civility issue is pretty specific to this forum, so it wouldn't be prevalent in other places. Feeling frustrated when misunderstood is understandable, whether online or real-time. If you get the benefit of the doubt more in real-time, and communicating seems to flow more easily, maybe that deserves more focus, at least temporarily.
> Without putting PB down in any way could anyone tell me of other forums that have a gentle tolerant atmosphere? Or is the problem me and the answer just to toughen myself up?
..........yes, I think there are other places that pretty much eliminate disagreements, heightened emotions, etc. A lot of the suicide help web sites seem like that to me, an extremely gentle, soft approach. Very much focused on understanding, and somewhat diverse discussions (not just suicide, people talk about their problems). When my computer crashed I lost all my bookmarks, but I think a good place to start to find such places is www.metanoia.com because their links went to help sites. It would be interesting to see if you missed the stimulation of differing opinions, etc. As for toughening up, that can mean a lot of things. If it means learning new ways to stuff feelings, it's probably a bad idea. If it means becoming more confident in your own ideas, and more comfortable with dissent, then it can be a good thing. imho, of course.
> Also I've been trying to find internet sites that could provide creative outlets for isolated people. Does anyone have any ideas? I think it might be best to channel my creative energies into playing the recorder
........I play the recorder, and love it. I usually keep one in the car and play it while waiting at lights, in traffic, at the drive thru, etc. But, I don't know any recorder links, unfortunately.
..........I hope you find a good solution to your dilemma.
Shar
> Thanks
>
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2003, at 11:01:46
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
I have found that spending time here has sensitized me to some issues of written communication. I have learned a lot about how things can be misunderstood or misinterpreted via written electronics. I think this experience here at babble has helped me for composing work-related emails.
Sometimes this place can erupt a bit, but I find that mostly it is supportive.
But it can be very addictive--there have been times when I made myself stop coming here for a while becasue I had been spending too much time here.
I think it is such an individual decision, like you said. It depends on what kinds of reactions one has to reading this board and participating. For example, some posters have talked about being "triggered" -- PTSD reactions to some posts, and how they have learned to not read some threads because they could trigger them. I think the same could be true for one prone to obsessive thoughts, etc.
I hope you can find a balance that works for you. I very much like having you here, but if it doesn't work for you right now, maybe take a break.
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2003, at 11:06:17
In reply to Mair, you expressed that so beautifully!!! :-) (nm), posted by mikhail99 on January 17, 2003, at 14:26:35
Posted by jane d on January 18, 2003, at 21:25:26
In reply to Moving on from mental health forums?, posted by OddipusRex on January 17, 2003, at 11:39:41
I've been meaning to post this for awhile now.
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/159/12/2062
There's a description of it here but this second link will only be good for a few more days.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/news/fullstory_11022.html
Posted by Noa on January 19, 2003, at 8:13:52
In reply to Article on Internet Support Groups, posted by jane d on January 18, 2003, at 21:25:26
Thanks, Jane.
I thought it was interesting that the research group was mostly in treatment, and the researchers say that they are not sure how helpful the online support is for people not in treatment (ie, more study needed). From my experience here, I see that people encourage each other to get treatment face to face--that would also be an interesting thing to study--to what extent do people seek bricks and mortar treatment because of advice they get online? I also found it interesting that participating in online support groups doesn't seem to increase social isolation.
Posted by lostsailor on January 19, 2003, at 10:32:41
In reply to Re: Article on Internet Support Groups » jane d, posted by Noa on January 19, 2003, at 8:13:52
I have agoraphobia severe enough to prevent me from going to a support group at times> Both my doc and therapist think this and a chat room I go to are good supplement, but should not be used in place of other treatment modalities. I guess it's a good thing as long as you set some time limits and don't sit all day waiting for replies...lol
~Tony
Posted by OddipusRex on January 19, 2003, at 11:00:11
In reply to Re: Moving on from mental health forums? » OddipusRex, posted by Noa on January 18, 2003, at 11:01:46
Thanks for all your replies. They gave me a lot to think about. I appreciate it.
This is the end of the thread.
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