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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by jay on October 26, 2002, at 16:11:04
In reply to searching?, posted by susan C on October 26, 2002, at 13:07:10
Hey Mouse:Thanks for your nice reply. :-) And yes..I sorta do have a thing for older women. ;-)
You know, in my situation, I responded to someone who was very open and kind at many times, and even some of my co-workers where a bit surprised at the outcome.
But, yeah I am feeling much better about myself, but as so many know, depression is SUCH a lonely illness. I am doing much better (touch wood), and many of my previous 'outgoing' characteristics are coming right back. At 33, I obviously am soul-searching for my mate. I don't come across as desperate, but I do hold back a bit less especially after surviving a decade of massive anxiety and depression. As I try to always say.."..it's her loss", and she seems so unhappy for herself, I really think it will come back to haunt her as she gets older. Wishful thinking on my part, eh?..hehee
Well, thanks again..it feels nice to have some 'concerned'..at that really is great support. :-)
Take good care...and I will post my number shortly..haaahaa! :-) (j/k)
Jay
> Hi,
> Interested in an older woman? No, just kidding, I'd only want to be friends, friends, friends, friends, friends....I kept telling my boys (19 and 23) as they watched their friends get involved one after another...that there was no reasoning to why this happened. THe last time I saw the 23 year old, he said, he had given up completely on trying to figure out 'how to behave' to attract a female. He was at a party of mutual friends, and a gal was talking to him, and said, hey, you are kinda cute, and he said, you are kinda cute too...later she said, and you are nice too...so now, they are boy and girl friend...the younger one, had to get 'hit on' repeatedly by his now gf, before he realized what was going on and that the next step was his...and all he had to say was yes...
>
> I experienced both of those experiences when young and single. There were several guys I was attracted to and just about bashed them over the head...maybe I should have...eventually, I learned and did just about do that with my mate of thirty years. We don't have mating plumage, or a dance, maybe we do...one thing I said, over and over, is, you never know when you are going to meet the second person you will spend the rest of your life with. While you are waiting, make sure the first person (yourself) is the one you really enjoy.
>
> philosophical mouse
Posted by SandraDee on October 26, 2002, at 20:02:03
In reply to Re: Not too bad, Jay! » SandraDee, posted by jay on October 26, 2002, at 15:55:39
Friend Zone. Ewww. Although I'm stuck there with my only single male friend (not hubby's friend) because I'm married... but he has told me more than once we are soul-mates. hahahaha I think he just likes having a girl to talk to. Sounds like you are much more confident than him. It'll happen Jay, you sound like a nice guy - and I don't mean that negatively :)
I never was one of the "bad-boy" go getters.... although my husband has that side of him. Who knows at the rate we are going - it might not be long before I'm single again! hahahahaha Just kidding.
I was actually glad to hear from your post that there are men out there that don't really mind asking a woman out with a kid/kids. That's taking on a lot, and I respect that you asked her at all.
Me
Posted by Tabßitha on October 26, 2002, at 20:49:40
In reply to You and Tabitha are probably right.... » jay, posted by SandraDee on October 26, 2002, at 20:02:03
SandraDee, you've got the perfect friend zone situation going. He probably won't make a serious move as long as you're married, and you get to enjoy the friendship. If he makes a move and you reject him, he'll just respect you more. Friend zone is a losing situation for a single girl. Here's my sad story.
I had a male friend for about 3 years. I knew he was interested, and I wasn't, but he was respecting my limits. He had this same type of pseudo-friend relationship with several other women. Then last year, it almost seemed like we were clicking. For a second he looked almost attractive. My therapist told me that sometimes, when a relationship deepens, an attraction can develop where it did not exist previously. Can it be? I wondered. Could my friend become a boyfriend? Although this had never worked for me before, I decided to try to explore the possibility of romance. Didn't work at all-- we did not in fact click, my little flicker of attraction died almost instantly, and simultaneously, he latched onto me for dear life, making himself even less attractive.
After a few weeks, I tried to gently disengage, but he wasn't hearing me at all, ... so I uttered the fatal words "I'm just not attracted to you", along with lots of reassurances of how much I valued his friendship and wanted to go back to the way things had been. Never heard from him again. I lost my long-term "friend" instantly, which was kind of a blow.
Jay, let this be a cautionary tale. Be glad this woman was straight with you early on, and be glad you took the hint and moved on. Pseudo-Friend zone is bad, from either side.
Posted by SandraDee on October 26, 2002, at 21:03:57
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone » SandraDee, posted by Tabßitha on October 26, 2002, at 20:49:40
And I don't want to turn this thread on ME... but no situation where a married woman is attracted to a single, available, attractive man (that calls you his soul mate) is perfect. It's far from it. It just makes me wonder more and more "what if"... as if I didn't have enough of that already without him in my life. I sometimes wish he would make a move, so I could feel a little something... it would be nice to feel wanted, is all. I can't do like Jay does and say "his loss" or feel like I'm worthy when all I am is an at home mom. Yea yea, I know that's great, but it's not really - I don't feel like I bring anything to this family - even when I'm told (by outsiders of our family) that I have one of the most important jobs - it sure doesn't feel like it. So funny how Jay can want what I have (a lover and/or family) and sometimes I just long to be responsible for nobody else but myself. Sometimes you can be in a relationship and feel just as lonely.
Me
Posted by Tabßitha on October 26, 2002, at 23:33:02
In reply to I wouldn't say it's perfect... » Tabßitha, posted by SandraDee on October 26, 2002, at 21:03:57
Uh-oh, I didn't realize the attraction was mutual. That is a tricky situation. I remember being very lonely when I was married.
OK, SandraDee, you've reminded me to be grateful for my sometimes lonely solitude.
Posted by jay on October 27, 2002, at 0:04:10
In reply to Re: Women/Womin and My Problems..boohooo!! everyone!, posted by Tabßitha on October 26, 2002, at 15:49:27
Well... I honestly don't think I misinterpreted anything. I am not trying to brag or sound cocky, but I am a social worker, and have pretty fine-tuned social skills. It doesn't make me a 'mind reader', but it gives me (usually) fairly good judgement as how to go about *any* relationship. One interesting, and sad thing I guess, is that many folks I deal with who have mental health problems, often (not always) have issues pertaining to a relationship. I do feel a bit proud, I guess that is the word, that I was able to assist many through some of these very deep and dark times, especially ones which involve either the death of a romantic partner or child, and the ones who been either abused or cheated on in a relationship. (BTW...we are working on some new definitions of abuse...and 'cheating' is finding it's way into this definition.)
OK..about my situation. I don't think there was anything wrong in what I read from her. I have a number of female 'friends'...and in fact any 'date' starts off as a friendship for me. My problem was the fact she emphasized 'friends' about 10 times in a few minute period. I just *assumed* that is what it would be....as most people I know do. It was insulting, and she mind as well told me she thought I was an ugly geek who she would *never* consider going out with. If she had use some more 'tactful' language...then fine.
The other thing is, I work in med sized office building. I am a social worker with our provincial government. She works in the restaurant on our building's main floor. I NEVER put myself above her, even if I make 5 times as much money as she does, and she is treating me like this? She knows where I work, and what I do, helping the poor and homeless. Her last boyfriend was this idiot who works in the same restaurant, and I have talked to him before...and man I shake my head!
Anyhow...that is my side of the story. I disagree that there is no big boundary between 'romantic' and 'friendship' interest. I think those 'traps' you listed are called games, and that is fine when you are 18, but as a grown adult, I think they are rather silly. One CAN easily lead to the other, and often over time, they do. If people would come down to earth and start losing their fantasies about going out with Hollywood-look-a-like's, many of us would be better off. That's my rant...I'm stickin' to it. :-)
Thanks..
JayWell... I honestly don't think I misinterpreted anything. I am not trying to brag or sound cocky, but I am a social worker, and have pretty fine-tuned social skills. It doesn't make me a 'mind reader', but it gives me (usually) fairly good judgement as how to go about *any* relationship. One interesting, and sad thing I guess, is that many folks I deal with who have mental health problems, often (not always) have issues pertaining to a relationship. I do feel a bit proud, I guess that is the word, that I was able to assist many through some of these very deep and dark times, especially ones which involve either the death of a romantic partner or child, and the ones who been either abused or cheated on in a relationship. (BTW...we are working on some new definitions of abuse...and 'cheating' is finding it's way into this definition.)OK..about my situation. I don't think there was anything wrong in what I read from her. I have a number of female 'friends'...and in fact any 'date' starts off as a friendship for me. My problem was the fact she emphasized 'friends' about 10 times in a few minute period. I just *assumed* that is what it would be....as most people I know do. It was insulting, and she mind as well told me she thought I was an ugly geek who she would *never* consider going out with. If she had use some more 'tactful' language...then fine.
The other thing is, I work in med sized office building. I am a social worker with our provincial government. She works in the restaurant on our building's main floor. I NEVER put myself above her, even if I make 5 times as much money as she does, and she is treating me like this? She knows where I work, and what I do, helping the poor and homeless. Her last boyfriend was this idiot who works in the same restaurant, and I have talked to him before...and man I shake my head!
Anyhow...that is my side of the story. I disagree that there is no big boundary between 'romantic' and 'friendship' interest. I think those 'traps' you listed are called games, and that is fine when you are 18, but as a grown adult, I think they are rather silly. One CAN easily lead to the other, and often over time, they do. If people would come down to earth and start losing their fantasies about going out with Hollywood-look-a-like's, many of us would be better off. That's my rant...I'm stickin' to it. :-)
Thanks..
Jay
Posted by jay on October 27, 2002, at 0:22:41
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone » SandraDee, posted by Tabßitha on October 26, 2002, at 20:49:40
Been there...did it..got the t-shirt. :-) To be honest, I find trivializing things is very counter-productive. As a friend of mine said.."If you want a best friend 24-7...get a dog." There will ALWAYS be imperfections, and people MUST deal with this in themselves and with others. To try and play a "well..I sorta like you...naaa..no I don't" line is like playing games, and I am sorry, but I am just being honest. I also think many today are still dearly afraid of commitment. I was in a relationship for about 4 years, lost my girlfriend in a car accident and our child had been born stillborn. Yes, it hurts like hell, but, I *would* do it all over again. I am actually hoping to 'start all over' again.My point being..if anybody has been hurt..well I can certainly count myself in. I don't really know what to make of your story. It sounds like you and he where walking on eggshells, and I think that can only lead to further danger. Make the case you either want something or not. We have to remember it is other peoples emotions we are toying with, and we must take responsibility for that.
Anyways..sorry..that's just how I feel.
Jay
> SandraDee, you've got the perfect friend zone situation going. He probably won't make a serious move as long as you're married, and you get to enjoy the friendship. If he makes a move and you reject him, he'll just respect you more. Friend zone is a losing situation for a single girl. Here's my sad story.
>
> I had a male friend for about 3 years. I knew he was interested, and I wasn't, but he was respecting my limits. He had this same type of pseudo-friend relationship with several other women. Then last year, it almost seemed like we were clicking. For a second he looked almost attractive. My therapist told me that sometimes, when a relationship deepens, an attraction can develop where it did not exist previously. Can it be? I wondered. Could my friend become a boyfriend? Although this had never worked for me before, I decided to try to explore the possibility of romance. Didn't work at all-- we did not in fact click, my little flicker of attraction died almost instantly, and simultaneously, he latched onto me for dear life, making himself even less attractive.
>
> After a few weeks, I tried to gently disengage, but he wasn't hearing me at all, ... so I uttered the fatal words "I'm just not attracted to you", along with lots of reassurances of how much I valued his friendship and wanted to go back to the way things had been. Never heard from him again. I lost my long-term "friend" instantly, which was kind of a blow.
>
> Jay, let this be a cautionary tale. Be glad this woman was straight with you early on, and be glad you took the hint and moved on. Pseudo-Friend zone is bad, from either side.
Posted by Tabßitha on October 27, 2002, at 1:53:28
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone..responsibility!! » Tabßitha, posted by jay on October 27, 2002, at 0:22:41
Jay, are you saying I toyed with my friend's emotions? I can't quite tell. Anyway, I didn't toy with him. I was up-front about my (lack of) feelings, and he was a grownup.
I was just trying to make a point about the perils of male/female friendship. Let me try again. I think male/female friendship is more risky for men, since they generally don't pursue friendship with a woman unless they're attracted to her. Women, on the other hand, are more likely to accept friendship from men they're not attracted to. Yes, she might start as a friend and then fall in love, I just think that's a risky approach for a guy.
Posted by ROO on October 28, 2002, at 8:18:54
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone..responsibility!!, posted by Tabßitha on October 27, 2002, at 1:53:28
Posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 15:19:24
In reply to Re: How do you look up this famous picture? (nm), posted by ROO on October 28, 2002, at 8:18:54
Hi:
Well...if you dare...you can find my ugly mug at:
http://profiles.yahoo.com/jay_ghostrider Be warned, though!..heh.Jay
Posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 15:42:17
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone..responsibility!!, posted by Tabßitha on October 27, 2002, at 1:53:28
Well, no I wasn't saying you where, or on purpose, toying with your friends emotions, but I think we *all* play some pretty 'wicked' games (even if we don't know it) at times. I mean, rather then hanging around someone and doing the ambiguous on/off again thing, I find it best just to axe *any* type of relationship like this rather then torcher each other. It just ends up becoming some kind of histrionic soap opera. Then you and they are free to move on. Any other way just seems cruel. That's my opinion anyways, and it has worked well for me, and kept myself and others from falling to pieces and ending up in the hospital over a failed relationship.
I also think it is quite a stereotype to think that men often mistake friendship with a women for something more. Where are these 'rules' that men can/should only ask out certain women? That is like the Caste system in India, where only certain people of a certain class can do certain jobs. There are no clear-cut boundaries, and *anything* is game. I think it is (and no..I am not saying you are!) snobbish of some people to think they have some sort of power to presume only 'certain' people have some kind of right to ask you out on a date. It sounds kind of *very* exclusive and elitist.
Anyhow..just IMHO..don't kill me for it, ok? (Hehee.)
Jay
Posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 15:51:36
In reply to Re: How do you look up this picture? My ugly mug.. » ROO, posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 15:19:24
You ain't ugly... unusual but tasty
Posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 16:27:45
In reply to Re: How do you look up this picture? My ugly mug.. » jay, posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 15:51:36
I'm looking like an ugly old trout with a hint of hamster.
Posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 17:11:05
In reply to Re: How do you look up this picture? My ugly mug.. » jay, posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 15:51:36
>
> You ain't ugly... unusual but tastyWell..ummm...thank you so much..<blush>..I guess 'unusual' ain't so bad? :-) Ummm..where abouts do you live anyways, dreamer? ;-)
Jay
Posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 17:15:07
In reply to Re: pseudo-friend zone..responsibility!!, posted by Tabßitha on October 27, 2002, at 1:53:28
Please note I am honestly not trying to start an argument or anything like that. I am just kinda hurt right now...a wounded animal. "Human..all to human.." as our pal Nietzsche said.Jay :-(
Posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 18:27:16
In reply to Re: How do you look up this picture? My ugly mug.. » Dr.Eamerz, posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 17:11:05
Jaybabes...I'm over the sea just outside london
Posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 0:54:48
In reply to Re: How do you look ? , posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 16:27:45
>
> I'm looking like an ugly old trout with a hint of hamster.Silvery trouts are lovely. And hamsters? Ooooh, the cuddly cuteness of those cheeks and little pink feet.
Posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 1:34:40
In reply to does yoghurt hurt whilst doing yoga » jay, posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 28, 2002, at 18:27:16
Hey..I am Canadian and trout are *beautiful*..;-)
Me also loves those sweet little pink things like Hammy. (Amongst other things...ahheeemm..;-)Jay
Posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 1:43:24
In reply to P.S. Tabitha.... » Tabßitha, posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 17:15:07
Jay, your last post did not seem argumentative at all. I understand you're going through a hard time, and my trying to take the woman's perspective on this just didn't go over too well. If you don't find my gender-biased opinions useful, I'll keep them to myself.
Rejection is painful, there's just no getting around that. Oddly I often find it more painful in the early stages of an infatuation than later on. Try not to read too much into this one though. Just because she doesn't want to date you right now, for whatever reason, and was rather graceless about telling you, doesn't mean you're not desirable. You just never know what somebody's romantic "type" is, and there's no point in taking rejection as saying something about your worth or attractiveness. You just don't fit her pattern is all. Maybe she only dates older men, or Norwiegians, or guys with six fingers on one hand, or who knows. Try not to take it personally. Easier said than done, I know.
Keep your head up, you'll get through this.
Posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 1:43:56
In reply to P.S. Tabitha.... » Tabßitha, posted by jay on October 28, 2002, at 17:15:07
I hope you understand...as when you are depressed, feelings of rejection feel like a stake through the heart. It's like I am in a Police song or something. I was *always* the odd geeky sensitive guy who was just 'too nice', and paid the price for it. I think we talked about this before. Geeezz..I am a good man who can (and has) make a woman a wonderful, caring and deeply loving partner, who doesn't cheat on her, or abuse her, or put her down, and put's the toilet seat down, and doesn't make bodily noises in front of her, and treats ALL women with respect..
Jay
Posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 2:31:40
In reply to Tabitha are you p'eed at moi?, posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 1:43:56
The post about "toying" kind of stung, but now I feel like things are all patched up. Are you OK with me?
Posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 2:36:27
In reply to Re: No not at all Jay, posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 2:31:40
Posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 29, 2002, at 11:48:14
In reply to Re: raising dental floss » Dr.Eamerz, posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 1:34:40
(Amongst other things...ahheeemm..;-)
Those things ...that's the effexor , quite stimulating isn't it ; )
Posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 17:26:43
In reply to things and bits and pieces » jay, posted by Dr.Eamerz on October 29, 2002, at 11:48:14
> (Amongst other things...ahheeemm..;-)
>
> Those things ...that's the effexor , quite stimulating isn't it ; )
>
>Well, it's been about 5 1/2 years for me being on it...and I think it's lost much of it's stimulating affect. But, thankfully other areas of my, ahhhh, 'functioning' are doing quite well.;-) Oddly, the Risperdal seems to have added a very pleasent and peaceful punch to my personality. (Nothing 'manic'...just 'me'...the way I USED to feel on a good day.) Isn't it weird after living with depression for so many years, we can pick our personalities apart the way a mechanic can take a car apart? As horrible as it all has been, it has somehow made me feel at times like I truly have some kind of 'meaning' in my life.
Now if I can only find someone to share it with.....:-/
Jay
Posted by jay on October 29, 2002, at 17:36:05
In reply to Re: No not at all Jay, posted by Tabßitha on October 29, 2002, at 2:31:40
> The post about "toying" kind of stung, but now I feel like things are all patched up. Are you OK with me?
OK...that's good. :-) My response to you about "toying" (hmm..that sound's kinda fun..ooopss...sorry...bad boy;-) was just my being a little bit hurt and resentful...but it was transient and really nothing. You know, your pride and ego gets a tad wounded when you are 'rejected'. This whole issue now makes me laugh a bit at how I went 'on..' about it. There are many, many fish-eeees in the sea...and all that usual stuff you told yourself since you where 13 year's old and found your first 'true love'...even if you had only known them for a day and a half. Yeah...that little guy still lives on inside of me...and I love him to death, and hope he never goes. I doubt he will. :-)
Thanks
Jay
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