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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
how is your relationship with your siblings?
Posted by Sourceror on December 3, 2001, at 14:51:24
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
Until recently when I moved back home with my parents my relations with my younger sister and brother were near non existent. Now that I have moved home my brother and I have started to get along much better. This is strange since we still live several hours apart. I am still struggling a bit though with my relationship with my sister and she just lives about fifteen minutes away. I can't figure it out. I guess I should be greatful at least that my brother came around.
Posted by akc on December 3, 2001, at 15:03:26
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
Sar,
I am sad that you find it necessary to pull away from family. My family has become very much my cheerleading squad as I battle my demons. I don't know what I would do without them. But I also know that some family units are toxic. And that it is better to stay away, than to try to continue the relationships for "family sake."
Until I went to treatment for my drinking three years ago, my sister and I had an on-again, off-again relationship at best. As kids, we fought horribly. These past three years, we have worked at being friends. It is hard. She says that she will do things, then promptly forgets (truly -- she just forgets) -- it took me a while to figure that one out and quit taking it personally.
I have two brothers. One I hardly know -- he moved into his dad's house (all my siblings are "halves") when I was young. He isn't into building connections. I tried for awhile, but I don't like one sidedness in a relationship, so I gave up. My sister (his full sister) keeps in contact with him).
My other brother. I worship the ground he walks on. And he happened to marry the neatest person in the world, who has become one of my best friends. If we don't talk at least twice a week, something is usually wrong. I don't actually talk much with my brother, himself. But that is okay (he is on the quite side). I'm just lucky to have him and his wife in my life.
My sister best understands my illness. My brothers both are somewhat of the attitude that you pull yourself up by your bootstraps, but they don't judge me -- they just have a hard time understanding. My sister-in-law really works at understanding, and which she doesn't, it just doesn't really matter -- again, she is just a neat, caring person.
Given the horrible abuse all of us suffered at my father's hands, it is amazing that we do so well as a family unit.
Again, something I have to be grateful for. And another reason to have hope. I just hope it is enough to get me through these dark periods.
akc
Posted by Katey on December 3, 2001, at 15:26:34
In reply to Re: siblings » sar, posted by akc on December 3, 2001, at 15:03:26
my halves are so vastly older than me that i was an 'only child' at the age of 7. my mom talks to them, relays news. our relationships are pretty much non existant. my brother is a 3hr drive, my sister an 8, so i dont see them often. i think their closer to eachother than me because of the age difference and that their 'fulls'. has anyone ever had self family issues? i'm trying to figure out how to phrase it. my pet name for it is the youngest child syndrome/only child complex. like feeling unneccessary to the family unit, or left out a lot because of the age gap. just curious
Posted by Pamela Lynn on December 3, 2001, at 16:23:40
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
I am lucky, in that even when I was a recluse and didn't want to even talk on the phone to my brothers and sisters, they still stood beside me.
One morning I went out to get the mail (during my deepest, darkest time of depression) and there was a bunch of fresh flowers from my sister just sitting outside my door..and a card that said "When you are ready to talk, I will be here..."
My one brother and I are the closest and he went out of his way to make sure he called me everyday I was in the hospital (this last time), whether I wanted to talk or not...he would call, just to let me know he WAS thinking about me.
I have excellent parents as well-am truly blessed, especially with what I have put my family through with my depression/borderline personality disorder---alot of people would have just given up I think, but they all stood firm and as strong as they could for me.
I thank the Powers That Be for my family!
P.L.
> i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
>
> recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
>
> at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
>
> how is your relationship with your siblings?
Posted by Kristi on December 3, 2001, at 20:43:32
In reply to Re: siblings » sar, posted by Pamela Lynn on December 3, 2001, at 16:23:40
That is really awesome. I respect family's like that greatly. I have really nothing to say..... except that it touched me, it touched to me hear that some families really are a family.
> I am lucky, in that even when I was a recluse and didn't want to even talk on the phone to my brothers and sisters, they still stood beside me.
>
> One morning I went out to get the mail (during my deepest, darkest time of depression) and there was a bunch of fresh flowers from my sister just sitting outside my door..and a card that said "When you are ready to talk, I will be here..."
>
> My one brother and I are the closest and he went out of his way to make sure he called me everyday I was in the hospital (this last time), whether I wanted to talk or not...he would call, just to let me know he WAS thinking about me.
>
> I have excellent parents as well-am truly blessed, especially with what I have put my family through with my depression/borderline personality disorder---alot of people would have just given up I think, but they all stood firm and as strong as they could for me.
>
> I thank the Powers That Be for my family!
>
> P.L.
>
> > i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
> >
> > recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
> >
> > at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
> >
> > how is your relationship with your siblings?
Posted by Katey on December 3, 2001, at 21:36:29
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
my siblings dont even know. they sit there and watch me take my meds when their around, and assume its vitamins or pain killers.
Posted by shelliR on December 4, 2001, at 0:31:37
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
> i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
>
> recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
>
> at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
>
> how is your relationship with your siblings?Hey Sar,
Just because your relationship with your siblings is on hold right now, that can change. They will always be part of your life, at least as long as your parents are alive. So you all all have some time to bring things closer.
My brother and I don't have a relationship and that doesn't upset me but it does upset my parents. My sister and I would never pick each other as friends, but when things go wrong, both of us are there for each other and that feels good.
WIth your brother, I can understand why you scare him now; you scare yourself sometimes, remember? But how about doing something safe with him, doing something where you can both be sort of quiet and just get used to each other again. There are quiet things you like to do--could you go hiking or go to a movie, something very low key to start. A sibling doesn't have to be a best friend for them to be valuable to you in your life. I think when I don't expect a lot from the relationship with my sister, but keep it going, than we do better together.take care,
Shelli
Posted by Pamela Lynn on December 4, 2001, at 0:39:24
In reply to Re: siblings » Pamela Lynn, posted by Kristi on December 3, 2001, at 20:43:32
Kristi,
I hope you don't think I am all hokey here...but it touches me that it touches you!
I actually am going to print this out and send each of my brothers and sisters and Mom and Dad a copy....THEY will be touched by it.
YES, Some 'close knit' families do still exist, and I truly am blessed for mine.
P.L.
> That is really awesome. I respect family's like that greatly. I have really nothing to say..... except that it touched me, it touched to me hear that some families really are a family.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > I am lucky, in that even when I was a recluse and didn't want to even talk on the phone to my brothers and sisters, they still stood beside me.
> >
> > One morning I went out to get the mail (during my deepest, darkest time of depression) and there was a bunch of fresh flowers from my sister just sitting outside my door..and a card that said "When you are ready to talk, I will be here..."
> >
> > My one brother and I are the closest and he went out of his way to make sure he called me everyday I was in the hospital (this last time), whether I wanted to talk or not...he would call, just to let me know he WAS thinking about me.
> >
> > I have excellent parents as well-am truly blessed, especially with what I have put my family through with my depression/borderline personality disorder---alot of people would have just given up I think, but they all stood firm and as strong as they could for me.
> >
> > I thank the Powers That Be for my family!
> >
> > P.L.
> >
> > > i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
> > >
> > > recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
> > >
> > > at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
> > >
> > > how is your relationship with your siblings?
Posted by Anna Laura on December 4, 2001, at 2:09:55
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
> i used to be somewhat puzzled that my mother very rarely communicated with her 6 brothers and sisters.
>
> recently, my sister and i have come to a conlusion to stop communicating with each other, and so have my brother and i (i am the middle child).
>
> at this age, i find it disheartening to see these breaks...yet i like myself (wow!) more than i like them; i'm just envious of all the siblings i see hanging out together...afterall, my brother is only a year younger than i am, and i wish i could get him to ome out of his shell and come hang...but my drinking and "bipolarity" scare him, he can't deal with me, and i suppose i can't deal with is square ideals and quietness, it just scares me that i can relate to neither...
>
> how is your relationship with your siblings?
The relationship with my brother and sister have grown better with time. My brother is just two years older then me: we used to be very close as children but we sort of broke up as we grew older. We grew in a troubled family (both my grandmother and my mother had violent tempers) so we managed to build up a sort of alliance between the two of us; we've been very close and confident and our relationship has been very intense until the day i left home when i was eighteen. When i came back home two years later i found out he had changed deeply : he had become hostile and obnoxius and he would tease me and hurt me all the day through. All my attempts to reconcile had been a failure.
Things got worse as he got married: her wife was jealous of the realtionship that we used to have as children, so she would keep him away from me. I think my brother never forgave me for leaving him alone with our alcholic mother. Moreover i used to beat him up when i was a child and i never forgave myself for that. I thought we could never restore that broken relationship again and as years went by i had resigned myself.
Surprisingly things grew better as he broke up from his wife; i sent him an e-mail while he was on vacation in the Uniste States with a picture of the two of us when we were children. I was pretty sure he would reject me, but i chose to follow my heart impulse no matter what. When i received his mail i realized things had changed: he probably forgave me for the things i did to him,and i was glad he made such a step forward, still i had to wait 13 years for my brother to come back to me!
My sister is just 21 years old, she is a very funny, flamboyant and cunny girl. She's studying abroad right now, attending a college in the north of Spain. I'm wishing all the best for her. Luckily she didn't have to endure all the things me and my brother went through as she grew up with another person taking care of her while our mother was at work. She didn't experience our father departure and rejection cause she wasn't born yet when he left home, nor she didn't have to endure my mother violence and abuse. When she was a small child i was in my teenage years : i would stay up late and drink , always partying and i neglected her. I had built a wall all around me in order to protect me so i wan't showing her much affection. As a woman, i was supposed to look after her, but i rejected this role; i used to think: "what the heck, i'm not her mother: i'm seventeen years old, i want to have fun, don't want any children around". My brother replaced the role my mother had forsaken and fed my sister , washed her and looked after her. As a young adult i realized me and my sister had grown distant and i felt sorry for that so i committed myself to build up a relationship with her. It took time and believe me, it was hard, but now i can say i've been her counselor and adviser when she was a little girl and i'm proud of it. Now she is a wise and happy young adult and i like to think me and my brother contributed to it.
To draw a conclusion, I must sayt that i believe the approach has to be mutual in order to build a decent relationship. In all these years i've been trying to get closer to my father with no results at all and i've come to realize it's not my fault if he is so unsensitive and uncaring; there's no way you can restore a broken relationship if both didn't manage to work hard on themselves. There is no one-way approach.
even if most times i believe i don't care about him it's stil tough to realize my father doesn't give a heck about me.
He's now remarrying for the third time with a woman two years younger then me and i found out recently she's pregnant.
Now, as i watch my siblings together i can see that some parts of me are inside of them and viceversa: it's odd, it's like we have been parents to each other somehow in all these years. I can feel there is a special empathy, a bond between us i never experienced with anyone else, though i realize i don't have much merit in it : it's been their choice to approach me once again since i've been rejecting them in one way or the other.
I don't want to sound too much sentimental or rethoric but when i think about my siblings i'm sure that if i had to leave this world tomorrow i would leave something valuable behind me and that parts of me will survive inside of them forever. My brother and sister have been the children i have never had.
Posted by Rosa on December 4, 2001, at 11:52:26
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
Here are a few of the characteristics of growing up in an alcoholic or dysfunctional home.
We became isolated and afraid of people and authority figures.
We have an overdeveloped sense of responsibility and it is easier for us to be concerned with others rather than ourselves. This enables us not to look too closely at our own faults.
We confuse love with pity and tend to "love" people who we can "pity" and "rescue".
_________________________________
For further information about Adult Children of Alcoholics, go to the following URL:
www.adultchildren.org
< end >
Posted by Mair on December 4, 2001, at 22:09:14
In reply to siblings, posted by sar on December 3, 2001, at 14:33:32
Sar - is this deal about your brother being "scared" and not being able to "deal" with you his words or yours? I do pretty well with all of my 4 siblings maybe because we don't see that much of each other and don't try to interfere with one another's lives. When we do get together we can rally around common ground subjects, like how awful my father can be. I do have one brother who drinks alot. I'm not scared to be around him but it does sometimes make me feel very sad and somewhat exasperated, because he's so much better company when he's sober - I just don't like to see the transformation. Maybe your brother thinks you're harming yourself and doesn't want to witness it.
(or maybe as you suggest he's just so buttoned up that he can't appreciate a free spirit)Why do you think things have changed with your sister?
Mair
Posted by sar on December 5, 2001, at 14:57:55
In reply to Re: siblings » sar, posted by Mair on December 4, 2001, at 22:09:14
it was interesting to read all of the different stories on this thread...
i think, Mair, that it must have been me that used the word "scared" originally regarding my brother, but he's said that he can't deal with me...a few weeks ago i sat in the frontyard in a moment of quiet lucidity, hapiness, and when my brother drove up i asked why he wouldn't talk to me. he didn't really have an answer for me and went on to point out that i'm a "manic-depressive alcoholic" and that it's a waste that i dropped out of school. i told him that i needed to rest and to please excuse the corny cliche, but to figure out who i was.
basically we are oil and water. i pick my jeans up off the floor, throw on some flip-flops and am out on some adventures. my brother has his Abercrombie & Fitch jeans washed and--yes--ironed by my mother. he works out on friday and saturday nights...he doesn't drink, smoke, or do any drugs (except psychedelics!--weird glitch there) and won't drive me to the store for if i want alcohol or cigarettes, "won't support me in my bad habits." you're right, i think it hurts him to watch me hurt myself, but he's frozen up on me....but i think he's all starchy buttoned-up because he's never moved out of my parents home and probably has (as i do, and i think my mother does) social anxiety disorder. he keeps to himself so much that i think he can't appreciate how the rest of the world lives. (he once spewed spleen all over me and called me a "common thief" when i took some quarters from his dresser to do laundry...little did i know, he was collecting the special statehood quarters....aarrrgggh.)
my sister and i have never gotten along. she's 28, and a few years ago a therapist advised her to cut herself off from the family, and she has. we did try to rekindle our friendship over the summer through e-mail, but i realized after a month or 2 that i still didn't like her! like really didn't like her and told her no more e-mail. she's stayed in contact with my brother, but she and i have always been--well, she always kicked my ass when i was a kid. years later i realize that maybe she was jealous (i never had weight problems, did better in school, boys called for me, etc).
anyway, i have *rambled* on and on...this one's for myself so if you're still reading, congrats and thank you, you may go to sleep now.
sar
Posted by mair on December 5, 2001, at 15:59:47
In reply to Re: siblings, posted by sar on December 5, 2001, at 14:57:55
> Sar - sleep? Are you kidding - that was a great response. Besides you gave me my one laugh (not chuckle) of the day with the story about the statehood quarters.
A friend of mine who is a therapist said that there was no particular reason why siblings necessarily should be close. Her idea was that you don't choose your family, the way you do your friends, and that the shared background does not mean that you are people who would ever choose to be friends otherwise. Maybe this is really what's at play.
You've made me think about this more than I have in a while. I value my siblings because I know that they will probably be there for me when my friends might not and, in my case, the shared background is something of a bond. That said, I've only ever shared stuff about my depression with one of my sisters - the others are pretty clueless, as I 'm sure I am about lots of stuff that goes on in their lives. I enjoy being with them, but we really don't get together very often and really don't even talk on the phone much. So we're not estranged but we're not really close either. Maybe you only feel estranged from your brother because you're looking for something from him that he can't give.
Just some further ramblings
Mair
Posted by sar on December 6, 2001, at 9:53:48
In reply to Re: siblings » sar, posted by mair on December 5, 2001, at 15:59:47
Maybe you only feel estranged from your brother because you're looking for something from him that he can't give.
>
> Just some further ramblings
>
> MairMair, o Wise One, :)
i've been turning this over in my head since yesterday and i must admit that you hit the nail on the head. he gave me what he could for awhile--silent understanding, rides to the music store--but there's no way i can "fix" him, befriend him, what have you...i was pushing too hard. (can you tell iwas reading some taoist literature last night?)
i guess i was confused too as to how siblings can turn out so differently. at this point, hanging out with my bro would be like a drunken ralph nader hanging out with george washington.
:)
thanks for your insightfulness, Mair...
love,
sar
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