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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by PaulB on October 28, 2001, at 10:12:15
Hi ya
I used to think that depression was much worse to bear than anxiety, both generalised, social and obsessive however I was on a walk the other week and I collapsed and said that I couldnt take this anymore. I wasnt depressed. I was very anxious-generalised.
I would appreciate feedback on how other people compare their experience of depression with anxiety. "I" would assume most would say depression was worse. Depression does rate higher than anxiety on a list of the most unbearable diseases. Of course, I accept that this is far too complex a discussion as their are varying degrees of both depression and anxiety but as I mentioned feedback would be appreciated.
I would like to add I read a very interesting article the other day in the observer magazine entitled 'Terror Vision', subtitle 'The attack on New York has made us all more anxious. With good reason. But imagine feeling acute anxiety all the time, for no apparent reason: a nightmare soundtrack that accompanies your life. Generalised Anxiety Disorder now has official recognition and the numbers of sufferers are soaring. Jane Phillimore worries about why'
Some, may have got lost in this rather long post of mine. Bottom line; How does depression rate to anxiety[obsessive, generalised, social, panic] for you.
PaulB
Posted by Greg A. on October 28, 2001, at 10:51:19
In reply to Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by PaulB on October 28, 2001, at 10:12:15
I find anxiety worse initially. Periods of depression are always preceeded by increased anxiety for me. I say increased, because there is just about always some anxiety there beyond what i consider to be normal levels. I find the anxiety can reach almost crippling proportions just like depression. It is virtually impossible to do or accomplish anything when in its grip. Funny, when I have really sunk into a depression, sometimes the anxiety lets up and I feel a sort of distorted calm - where I say 'alright, now lets decide how to end this because there's certainly nothing to live for.'
The latter has happened far fewer times than the anxiety. I fear the anxiety more. A relationship??
I used to think I suffered only with anxiety and that the diagnosis of depression was unrelated or wrong. Then my pdoc talked me into giving up anti-anx meds and switching to an AD. I did this over a long period of time, almost a year. And wonder of wonders, the AD helped my anxiety. Since then I try to treat the depression as the cause, but at times I have to treat the symptom (anx.) as well.Good question Paul
Greg
Posted by Dinah on October 28, 2001, at 13:29:45
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Greg A. on October 28, 2001, at 10:51:19
I find the anxiety far worse. The physical sensations of anxiety can be awful. The closest I ever came to suicide was due to Wellbutrin induced anxiety and agitation. I felt like I couldn't stand to be in my skin for another second. The depressions I find worst are those that combine depression with anxiety or agitation.
However, I have been wondering lately if the long term loss of the ability to feel pleasure isn't just as dangerous as the more acute phases of depression, in a more insidious way.
Posted by wendy b. on October 28, 2001, at 15:38:52
In reply to Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by PaulB on October 28, 2001, at 10:12:15
Hi Paul,
Like Greg A, I think this is a good question...
My initial dx was anxiety, brought on by a very difficult marital situation where I was being physically and emotionally beat up on by the husband. I was seeing a social worker who was very understanding and helpful. She told my general practioner about the anxiety dx, he then prescribed me the gold-standard, Xanax, warning me about it being habit-forming. I was only prescribed .25 mg, and I was new to all of this, so I felt guilty as hell when I downed 3 per day, for a brief period of time, during court proceedings, etc. I never had any problems with addiction, or whatever, and it was helpful. I still have a scrip for it, for particularly difficult times, or when I need it for sleep.
During the time I was plotting my escape from the marital abode, I would have panic attacks almost every day, as though something somehow was going to prevent my being able to succeed with my plan. I would have long attacks lasting many hours, at work, with sweat literally pouring down my arms, my heart pounding loudly in my chest, shortness of breath, etc., all the classic symptoms. It was a horror.
After that period was over, I realized I also had many symptoms of depression (was living on my own raising my daughter alone), and ventured that theory to my therapist, who said I probably was depressed. About the same time I was becoming aware of a lot of rage and irritability, in the week (sometimes 2, even 3) before my period, and talked to the gynocologist about peri-menopause, who put me on Zoloft. He understood that life was quite stressful for me, and thought it would help. It did work well at the time (I was on it 3 years) before it pooped out.
I then had to go to a meds specialist, who dx'd me bipolar I, single manic episode, with a tendency toward full-blown depression. I'm on Wellbutrin and Neurontin right now, though I think I need some Depakote too, for mood swings and the occasional hypomanic episode.
For me, I guess the answer to your question is that I don't have anxiety without the depression, that the two go hand in hand for me. After going on the Zoloft, I realized I had been depressed since childhood. It made me feel so much better that I was able to finally objectify my earlier experiences in life, that in my childhood I had lived with fear and had to stifle that emotion, because I didn't know what it was, and nobody talked to kids about 'feelings' back then, even though it was the '60s. It was probably some kind of low-level GAD all that time, topped with a feeling of being worthless and that nothing would ever work out for me in my life. Even as a child I thought this...
I don't know if this is helpful to you or anybody else, I feel that I can't separate out the anxiety from the depression. I live with anxiety every day, always sure something terrible is going to happen, like I am going to lose my daughter to my ex-husband, because I have no financial security at the moment, for example. Thoughts that I am going to die, not related to any particular reality... I have never suffered from social phobia, always feeling easy whenever I was the center of attention, never worrying too much about speaking in front of groups, etc. I have felt some ruminating obsessive-type problems for the first time this year, ongoing, because of a more recent difficult breakup, where I never had the chance to tell the guy how I felt, or express the anger I had toward him and the situation. So I had to bottle it up, and it came out as obsessive thinking, going over and over why things hadn't worked out... You know the drill. But I still experience that kind of ruminating as part of the depression, that it doesn't exist outside of the depressed state, that it is part and parcel of the same illness, in my particular case.
Hope this is helpful to the discussion...
best,
Wendy
Posted by sar on October 29, 2001, at 10:29:50
In reply to Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by PaulB on October 28, 2001, at 10:12:15
hi Paul,
i've been thinking about this question and have been unable to pick the two--anxiety and depression--apart.
when i was 13 or so, my shyness developed into social anxiety, and my dysthymia developed into depression. it all happened at once, though perhaps at that point the social anxiety was contributing more heavily to the depression because it was middle school and time to be self-conscious anyway...
because anxiety is fear, i can't imagine having it without also being depressed...how can life be pleasureful when you essentially live in fear other others (social anxiety) or are trying to shop for a toothbrush while thinking I THINK I AM GOING TO DIE...(generalised anxiety).
in april of last year, my longtime boyfriend and i broke up. i had, for all practical purposes, been living with him, and he'd treated me wonderfully, he took care of me, loved me deeply, and already (without knowing it) had lifted me out of a terrible depression. i broke up with him, so i initially felt very free, but not long after, the anxiety set in, the worst anxiety i'd ever felt in my entire life, because it gripped my legs and made them stiff, it tore my brain to shreds and made my hands tremble all the time, i was so on edge and freaked out at losing his love that i began drinking alot to calm down, and i think all of this contributed to the worst, most suicidal depression of my life.
i got lucky with meds, because prozac picked me up and gave me strength, and with klonopin added to that, my social anxiety melted away--a really amazing and eye-opening experience...suddenly i could talk to people, it didn't matter who, i wasn't cowering, i was working retail and making people laugh, and my newfound ability to socialize comfortably (without thinking that everyone secretly hated me, or that everything i was saying was completely stoopid, not feeling claustrophobic around people or like i was about to faint) assauged my depression a fair amount.
i'm not anxious much these days, but i do feel depressed at heart. the anxiety comes and goes, but depression is part of my body and always has been. i have fun now, i'm getting my life back together and often feel good, but it runs in my blood and i think that's more dangerous and frightening than anxiety. anxiety is just horribly uncomfortable.
what a trade-off, bah...
Posted by Greg on October 29, 2001, at 18:47:51
In reply to Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by PaulB on October 28, 2001, at 10:12:15
Paul,
Anxiety and depression are very different animals for me, both are very destructive, but in very different ways.
Anxiety debilitates me at it's worst. It leaves me incapable of functioning on any level. I sit and shake, I can't think or speak a rational sentence, I live in fear of contact with another human being. My heart pounds and I usually get a raging headache. Xanax fortunately will get these attacks under control and they don't happen as often as they used to. But, because I know I can take a pill and regain control, somehow I don't feel totally lost. I guess I know for me there's a rope dangling there to grab onto.
Depression washes over me slowly and I usually don't see it coming. It's just that sense of dread, that hopeless, helpless feeling I get that I can't explain to anyone. I feel like nothing I've ever done in my life has mattered or made a difference. Sometimes I get suicidal when I feel that way. I've thought of so many ways to end it. When I get like that, no med is going to help and I just have to ride it out and so far I have. There may come a day when I don't, who knows? My meds have helped a lot and I'm lucky that I don't get depressed very often. One thing I do know, I not afraid of death, and when the time comes. I'm ready.
So I guess the answer to your question for me is they're both bad, but I can control the anxiety, the depression I can't. So I guess that makes it worse. Bottom line for me is that I play the hand I've been dealt, what other choice do I have?
This was an good question, thanks for making me thing about it.
Greg
Posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 19:28:50
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Greg on October 29, 2001, at 18:47:51
After a great deal of thought, I decided that anxiety is worse than depression for me because of my family. I've been very self-destructive at times but I would never intentionally hurt another person. However, my anxiety, my panic attacks, my crying jags and my "acting out" - that's how I refer to some of the really insane things I've done - this was all deeply disturbing and terribly hurtful and worrisome for my family.
This was never my intention and only added guilt
to the veritable buffet of psychiatric problems
that I was already suffering from. I must say, up to this point, they have been loving and supportive and I would surely be dead without them. Now I'm afraid that one day I will come home and they will be gone for good, with a note on the door that says, "We can't take your crap anymore." Everything will be gone except our really junky furniture and my thousands of books and our obnoxious cat, and maybe the wok because they wouldn't know what to do with it.So, from that standpoint, depression is better. I just hole up in my room, so at least they know where I am, and I am quiet. Mostly I sleep, and they just have to come in once in awhile to make sure I'm still breathing.
I'm not like that all the time - those are the extremes. I'm not doing too bad right now.
-Gracie
Posted by Roo on October 30, 2001, at 8:44:59
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Gracie2 on October 29, 2001, at 19:28:50
I've thought about this alot. Anxiety is definitely
worse for me. It has a much more urgent quality to it.
It's much harder to function with it. You feel like you
must DO SOMETHING about it and NOW! Depression, I just
get introverted and sleep a lot and feel hopeless, but I
don't feel like I'm going to tear my hair out. Sometimes
when I'm anxious, I actually crave to be depressed so I can
sleep and escape from it all. There aint no way I'm sleeping
when I'm anxious.
Posted by PaulB on October 30, 2001, at 14:17:20
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Roo on October 30, 2001, at 8:44:59
I found reading the responses very interesting. What initially gave me the idea to post the message was that the walk I metioned when I collapsed was the first time anxiety made me want to kill myself. Depression first made me want to kill myself in 1998.
I was surprised, to say the least, to read that many of you find anxiety worse, much worse; Dinah, Gracie2, Roo, Greg. For me despite this incident depression is the worse of the two demons for me. Yet recently I havent been interpreting my past experiences of 'depression' as 'depression' but anger.
Since this is a posting that people who suffer from anxiety may read I would like to quote from the article 'Terror Vision' again. It will be at Dr-Bob's discretion to decide whether this post should be redirected to Psycho-Babble. Maybe it will do some good.
'Professor David Nutt is incredibly excited about a new drug which was recently given a license for GAD in the states-though not yet here(UK). Its called Venlafaxine brand name (Effexor XR) and is a hybrid SNRI which, by targeting both the serotonin and noradreanline levels in the brain, seems to have a specific anti-anxiety action.'
I was on Effexor XR in 98. Great Med. Powerful, potent and clean. My only concern is that it is not selective like the SSRI's and therefore its effects didnt last so long for me. Thanks for the responses.
PaulB
Posted by Mitch on November 1, 2001, at 13:14:12
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Roo on October 30, 2001, at 8:44:59
> I've thought about this alot. Anxiety is definitely
> worse for me. It has a much more urgent quality to it.
> It's much harder to function with it. You feel like you
> must DO SOMETHING about it and NOW! Depression, I just
> get introverted and sleep a lot and feel hopeless, but I
> don't feel like I'm going to tear my hair out. Sometimes
> when I'm anxious, I actually crave to be depressed so I can
> sleep and escape from it all. There aint no way I'm sleeping
> when I'm anxious.Hi, Roo
I finally made it through all of the hoops to get back in-WHEW! Yes, I know where Ft. Scott is, but I haven't been thru there. The closest was Nevada, MO. When I worked construction there was a job at Cottey College that brought me up that way. I just got back from Wichita a few days ago and a huge tumbleweed blew across my car-first time that ever happened. I figured I would reply to your question here-I couldn't figure out how to entwine medications with it and didn't want the "redirect".
As far as this topic:
Well, that depends on what type of anxiety it is. I have several "flavors"! The GAD or OCD-"like" stuff, etc., I can tolerate over depression fairly well. But when it comes to PANIC, now THAT's different! That MUST be taken care of NOW!
Posted by Roo on November 1, 2001, at 14:13:43
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU » Roo, posted by Mitch on November 1, 2001, at 13:14:12
Yep, heard of Cottey Cottage, and certainly Nevada.
The midwest has a certain flavor doesn't it?
I'm in the south now, and have been for over 10
years, and it has a definite flavor/feel/vibe to
it as well. I like it--feels like a mama's bosom
to me! Do you still do construction work?take care!
Posted by Mitch on November 1, 2001, at 23:14:00
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU Mitch, posted by Roo on November 1, 2001, at 14:13:43
> Yep, heard of Cottey Cottage, and certainly Nevada.
> The midwest has a certain flavor doesn't it?
> I'm in the south now, and have been for over 10
> years, and it has a definite flavor/feel/vibe to
> it as well. I like it--feels like a mama's bosom
> to me! Do you still do construction work?
>
> take care!Nope, I am a techno-cubicle-401K occupant. I miss it though. My ADHD misses it probably more than anything. The workplace is different constantly. Everytime you show up at the shop you don't know where you will be travelling to. And there is weird fun stuff that happens at job sites and afterwards and betweens. I guess what I miss is the constant *movement*. It took me three times and 15 years to get through college! I just can't seem to hack being the part of a captive audience (lecture halls/panic attacks :( ). Got to get up move around, DO something!
Posted by Noa on November 2, 2001, at 14:37:20
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Greg A. on October 28, 2001, at 10:51:19
Good Question to ask.
I, too, have been in the depressive camp for years and years, and over time have come to realize that despite how out of control it can become, my depression seems to be a (albeit very painful and destructive) way that I attempt to turn off intolerable anxiety.
I am not on the surface an anxious person. I'm not the one worrying about things. But deep down, I think I am quite anxious. It is just that when anxiety surfaces, I seem to go immediately into some kind of detachment mode--dissociation-like avoidance, and a lowering of mood as though my mind and body are putting the systems into a low-power mode to avoid overloading and crashing the whole system.
There have been very few times in my life when an extremely acute situation caused hyperarousal in an adaptive way, like a few years ago when my sister was on one of two planes that took off same time same airline same airport same destination country and one of the planes exploded after take-off and I was up all night with the adrenaline pumping, trying to access information on which flight was which. That was very different--I felt my thinking was clearer and faster, I felt energized and challenged, despite the anxiety and fear. It was clear to me that night that the arousal system really does have a good purpose and can work right, despite how dysfunctional it usually is.
I think most of my anxiety is related to deeply held terrible beliefs about myself. When something is going on in my life that stirs up those feelings, it has the potential to be so overwhelming. Mostly, I am good at turning it off, like I said, through shutting down, avoiding, getting depressed. When this system works well, I go into a lower mood, but the depression doesn't really kick in too much. Maybe I'll numb myself with computer games, or sleep a lot, etc. But sometimes, either I can't turn it off, and the anxiety is unbearable, followed by agitated depression, or I do go into the avoidance mode, but the depression takes over.
I'm getting better, through therapy and meds, in talking about these bad deep feelings without the anxiety storming in. But there is still a lot of work to do....
Posted by Dinah on November 2, 2001, at 16:08:26
In reply to Re: Is anxiety worse than depression FOR YOU, posted by Noa on November 2, 2001, at 14:37:20
Noa,
You described that so well. It all sounded so familiar to me, but you put it much more clearly than I ever could have. Thank you.
I am a more overtly anxious person, but I have begun to suspect that the depression comes as some sort of protection from the anxiety. Or maybe it's the other way around. Something to talk about in therapy, I guess.
This is the end of the thread.
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