![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 3 to 27 of 27. Go back in thread:
Posted by judy1 on February 21, 2001, at 17:08:54
In reply to Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by niborr on February 21, 2001, at 12:40:40
Thank you for posting this. I think the general concept here is applicable to a lot of different disorders- I know despite the havoc I have wrought with my manic episodes, I am more than ambivalent about giving them up. Although I sure want help with the depressions. Take care- Judy
Posted by ksvt on February 21, 2001, at 18:56:41
In reply to Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by niborr on February 21, 2001, at 12:40:40
>Robin - my thanks too for posting it since I was quite curious after reading the list of aphorisms. I've been telling my therapist something similar for a long time and she's been insisting that it's not true, based on her assessment that I get nothing beneficial from being depressed - certainly not pity since I've done everything I can to hide my depression. Sometimes I feel like I should be able to "will" away my depression. Sometimes I do feel that i don't want to get well simply by virtue of the fact that there are life style changes I could make which could make a difference. I haven't made them, therefore, I must have a self destructive urge to stay depressed. I'm not sure this is what your husband is talking about, but this is how I've always viewed it. K
Posted by pat123 on February 21, 2001, at 19:44:19
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » niborr, posted by ksvt on February 21, 2001, at 18:56:41
Sometimes I do feel that i don't want to get well simply by virtue of the fact that there are life style changes I could make which could make a difference. I haven't made them, therefore, I must have a self destructive urge to stay depressed.
I would not call it "a self destructive urge".
Change is hard even when there is a reward. It is just human that few will make changes in their life. If change was so easy there would be a lot less people in the world that have issues or hurt.Pat
Posted by ShelliR on February 23, 2001, at 8:31:49
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by pat123 on February 21, 2001, at 19:44:19
>Like K, I get no sympathy or pity for my depression, which is fine with me. Even my therapist is more cognitively oriented so I don't get much sympathy from her. I do not present as depressed to the outside world, and I live by myself. So that is definitely not the issue concerning continued depression. (Actually, I disagree that pity is a large part of any depression; people get tired of other's depression after a very short time).
Some years ago I did body therapy--which actually I'm going to start again. I feel my depression mainly in my chest, and when the therapist was working solely on my chest, I could feel the space she was creating there. I felt some emptiness inside-where she had been working. It was as if there was a hole where the tightness had been. I wonder if that is a general metaphor for me and my depression.
How I worked it out in body therapy is I filled my chest with growing flowers. And I think that if the depression were not there at all, (i.e. suddenly missing), I'd have a strange hole in my life. Depression does fill my body, and less often my thoughts. I'd have to substitute the depression with something--maybe new images and new experiences in my life.
ShelliR (changed from shellie.)
Posted by ksvt on February 23, 2001, at 12:20:44
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by ShelliR on February 23, 2001, at 8:31:49
> >Shelli - I've never heard of body therapy. What is it and what's the theory behind it? K
Like K, I get no sympathy or pity for my depression, which is fine with me. Even my therapist is more cognitively oriented so I don't get much sympathy from her. I do not present as depressed to the outside world, and I live by myself. So that is definitely not the issue concerning continued depression. (Actually, I disagree that pity is a large part of any depression; people get tired of other's depression after a very short time).
>
> Some years ago I did body therapy--which actually I'm going to start again. I feel my depression mainly in my chest, and when the therapist was working solely on my chest, I could feel the space she was creating there. I felt some emptiness inside-where she had been working. It was as if there was a hole where the tightness had been. I wonder if that is a general metaphor for me and my depression.
>
> How I worked it out in body therapy is I filled my chest with growing flowers. And I think that if the depression were not there at all, (i.e. suddenly missing), I'd have a strange hole in my life. Depression does fill my body, and less often my thoughts. I'd have to substitute the depression with something--maybe new images and new experiences in my life.
>
> ShelliR (changed from shellie.)
Posted by ShelliR on February 23, 2001, at 19:09:50
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by ksvt on February 23, 2001, at 12:20:44
> > >Shelli - I've never heard of body therapy. What is it and what's the theory behind it? K
>The professionals that provide body therapy have both a background in massage and a advanced degree in social work or counseling. So they understand your body, but also have been trained as a therapist. At least that's been my experience.
When you get your body worked on (for me, mostly my upper chest) feelings come up that you may or may not want to talk about. On a really basic level body therapists can help you release blockages in your body, that have been created out of your experiences, or out of your emotions. I look at it sort of circularly; things very early in my life happened to me that I was not able to express so alot of that went into my body, and just stayed there. Also, I think depression itself causes you to constrict parts of your body, which reinforces the depression. So body therapy is an opening up process and I think it is a very good augmentor to therapy. I am especially drawn to it because I experience most of my depression in my chest. Talking therapy (at this stage) helps me in a more cognitive way, and body therapy helps me in a more emotional way when I am being touched. For example, sometimes I cry, and I don't know why I'm crying (I generally don't cry very often except for in movies).
So, after all that, I guess body therapy assumes that depression (and other emotions) are going on inside that can be worked on in a physical way as well as a psychological way. shelli
Posted by Todd on February 24, 2001, at 23:22:13
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by ShelliR on February 23, 2001, at 19:09:50
The body therapy thing is a great thing to be doing. I have had similar energetic work done on myself that didn't involve any actual hands-on, but it all works under the same idea. We all, from a very young age, tend to block the pain of anything we experience as traumatic and teach ourselves to block all pain similarly, until it becomes automatic and the method becomes buried in the subconscious mind. Like you describe, a lot of these memories seem to be actually stored in our physical bodies until we summon the will and courage to feel it and let it go. Body therapy helps you to get in touch with that pain. Of course, to let it all go, you have to feel it all over again. That's the tough part. Feeling pain hurts with a capital "H." But once you feel it, understand what was behind it, and let it go, it can really start to transform your life.
You spoke of crying and not knowing why you were crying. I have had similar experiences, just bursting out into tears with no advance warning and no immediate reason. I am told that these are releases of negative energy that have been stored in your psyche since before you could speak. Basically, you are re-experiencing pain from the perspective of yourself as an infant with little or no understanding of the physical world.
When you start doing any kind of work like this, it's easy to become convinced that there is a bottomless wellspring of pain within you that will continue to make your life miserable. This really isn't true. The reason you need to feel this pain is so you can understand it and let it go. Grit your teeth and open yourself up to as much as you feel you can handle. Most of the time, it's not even a conscious thing. Once you start this kind of work in earnest, you set wheels in motion that keep you on course. You'll eventually find that what you thought was a wellspring of pain is your own beautiful light that was meant to shine. Peace and love.
Todd
Posted by shar on February 28, 2001, at 0:36:08
In reply to Re: Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » ShelliR, posted by Todd on February 24, 2001, at 23:22:13
This issue really boils down to opinions, so I will express mine, and any use of the word "you" is meant in the generic sense, and "we" is the royal "we" of course.
I have a hard time with this theory or concept or whatever. I used to believe it. "What am I getting out of feeling suicidal?" That was prior to my 20+ years of serious talk therapy.
Then, a few years ago I figured that if talk therapy was gonna significantly alleviate my depression, and I had really worked hard, it would have done so by then. And I had certainly changed and given up a large number of "depressive" thoughts and behaviors, not to mention the plain old maturation process.
In therapy, in the real world, I believe we give things up, we regress, we experience the original pain again, we resist, we learn to nurture ourselves more (one hopes), we hold on to stuff, we let go, and sometimes there are things we will improve but may never entirely resolve (such as being completely at ease around a parent that abused us). All those things go on at different times about different issues. And none of it is very linear.
With all due respect, and IMHO, to say that any of them represent a true desire to stay sick is akin to a slap in the face. Even if a doc backs up and says "Well, maybe not a TRUE desire to stay sick..." the fact that anyone would think that and voice it gets me in my gut. It is, IMHO, an unhealthy perspective.
My depression had a childhood onset, and like other posters have said, I hid it pretty well, remained functional for the most part, and I don't recall much gain from it. I did not like to talk about it, and my family certainly didn't proffer tea and sympathy because of it.
Did I resist change in therapy? Yes. Did I make changes? Yes. Did I regress instantaneously in some situations? Yes. Have I improved my regressions for the most part? Yes. Will I always have some issues that will cause me to act in a way that is not in my best interest? Yes. Will I deal with this in varying degrees for the rest of my life? Yes. It just is not a black and white issue.
William Styron addresses some of these issues throughout his book "Darkness Visible" and has a different perspective. The perspective of watching his friends watch him as he became more and more depressed, and how uncomfortable it became for them to see him. That is much more in line my experience.
Shar
Posted by Todd on February 28, 2001, at 1:59:01
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by shar on February 28, 2001, at 0:36:08
Hi, Shar. I empathize with almost everything you said. I have been diagnosed as bipolar and have lived with it for over 10 years. My depressions have never been life-threatening in the sense that I never seriously considered suicide. A few fleeting moments when I considered it an option, maybe, but the thought of it freaked me out so much that I would quickly push it out of my head. Most of my life has been dysthymic with one full-blown mania and other flirtations with it. That's why I try to stay away from posts here regarding suicidal thinkers, because I can't truly empathize. It's like trying to talk to an alcoholic about his problem without ever touching a drop myself. It just doesn't carry any clout. I am, however, very human and very in touch with my pain, and I feel I can share quite a bit when I feel it is appropriate. My personal process has really started to unfold in the last few years, and my life is starting to open up like I never thought it could. I want everyone to experience this kind of healing.
You spoke of feeling like it is a slap in the face for someone to tell you that part of you wants to be depressed. I used to think so as well. I have been learning that in many ways, at least for myself, that we do indeed want to be ill. I believe our depressions are caused by fears that keep our creative energy blocked. We aren't able to have a full experience of life because there is something inside of us that doesn't allow our true self to shine through.
Why do we have these fears? Where do they come from? You know the answer already. They come from your childhood. Usually before you can even remember. Those fears were put in place to keep you safe in your childhood environment. Especially having abusive parent(s), you knew exactly what you could and couldn't do to either avoid pain or to get their love. Part of you (and me, and everyone for that matter) still clings to those fears because they keep you safe. That's why there is a part of all of us that still clings to those fears and doesn't want to get well. Getting well is much more frightening to us, because that means we'll have to let go of the fear and venture out into virgin territory. We'll choose the safety any day. The thing is, those fears don't really keep us safe anymore. They actually hinder our potential to live a life rich with fulfillment.
That said, the will to stay sick isn't anything conscious. Consciously, we can't stand the depression. Consciously, we want to do it all ourselves and loathe anyone who tells us we can't take care of ourselves. We HATE to admit that there is anything wrong with us. Unconsciously, those fears are firmly in place, keeping us repeating the same patterns over and over again. If anyone would have told me this two years ago, I would have said they were nuts. I thought I was fine, that there was nothing wrong with me. I had no idea I was even afraid of anything, let alone KNOW what those fears were. Fortunately for me, my subconscious was in the driver's seat and prompted me to make some life choices that backed me against the wall. I was forced to face my fears - I had absolutely no choice. It was either that or sink into the black hole. With the help of a very gifted healer, I faced those fears. I didn't even know what the fears were until after I confronted them. It was absolutely terrifying. I wouldn't wish that kind of agony on my worst enemy. But two years later, I am adding more to the puzzle and feeling much more comfortable and confident with who I am.
Like you said, your issues are always going to be your issues and will affect the choices you make throughout your life. Same holds for me. Those subconscious fears can be up in a flash and influencing your actions before you even know what is happening. I do battle with them every day, and willl for the rest of my life. But I am here to say that the deeper you go, the more you can really pick apart those fears, understand who you really are and CHOOSE how you wish to act instead of running on fear-influenced autopilot. You can be free to express the beauty of yourself. Or the negative side of yourself, for that matter. Hell, none of us are without negativity, that's for sure. We're all entitled to blow off our steam too. But once the negative is validated and released, the more our true inner beauty can shine into this world. You ARE beautiful, Shar. I wouldn't recognize you walking down the street, but I can sense your kindness and strength and self-acceptance in your words. You're a great human being. Keep loving yourself. The world needs your light. Peace and love.
Todd
Posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 8:03:21
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » shar, posted by Todd on February 28, 2001, at 1:59:01
As Shar noted above: "Will I always have some issues that will cause me to act in a way that is not in my best interest? Yes. Will I deal with this in varying degrees for the rest of my life? Yes. It just is not a black and white issue." And it isn't, it's all about shades of grey and Mr. O'Connor's aphorisms, including this one, are designed to encourage discussion and thought about the experiences of his clients and the audiences he addresses, I imagine.
Todd in your post, you wrote:
> > "Fortunately for me, my subconscious was in the driver's seat and prompted me to make some life choices that backed me against the wall. I was forced to face my fears ... With the help of a very gifted healer, I faced those fears. I didn't even know what the fears were until after > >I confronted them."I'm curious about what approach the'gifted healer' you worked with used?
Sante!
dj
Posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 8:47:56
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by shar on February 28, 2001, at 0:36:08
> > Even if a doc backs up and says "Well, maybe not a TRUE desire to stay sick..." the fact that anyone would think that and voice it gets me in my gut. It is, IMHO, an unhealthy perspective.
>
> My depression had a childhood onset, and like other posters have said, I hid it pretty well, remained functional for the most part, and I don't recall much gain from it. I did not like to talk about it, and my family certainly didn't >proffer tea and sympathy because of it.Shar,
I just heard the author of the following study interviewed on the radio. More validification of the childhood origins of many of our hurts. As for the issue of gaining something by holding on to depressive behaviour, I imagine the issue may be as Todd alluded that it may seem easier and less painful to operate as we've learned to rather than go back and confront whatever the core issues were, that may be the basis for our dis-ease.
"February 22, 2001
STUDY LINKS ADOLESCENT EMOTIONAL PROBLEMS AND DATING VIOLENCE TO CHILDHOOD ABUSE
For the first time, research has linked adolescent emotional problems and dating violence to childhood abuse.
The ground-breaking study was led by David Wolfe, professor of psychology and psychiatry and a member of the Centre for Research on Violence Against Women and Children (CRVWC) at The University of Western Ontario. It appears in the March issue of the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry.
"The consequences of undetected childhood maltreatment are significant," says Wolfe. "Our study confirms that it places children and youth at considerable risk of future mental health and interpersonal problems."
Students between the ages of 14 and 19 in ten southwestern Ontario high schools completed questionnaires assessing past abuse, their current adjustment and incidents of dating violence.
The study found almost a third of the teens had experienced some form of childhood abuse or neglect (emotional, physical or sexual) while growing up. But, how the abuse manifests itself in adolescence differed significantly between girls and boys.
Girls who had experienced a history of childhood maltreatment reported considerable emotional distress (such as anger, depression and anxiety), post-traumatic stress-related symptoms, and acts of violent and non-violent delinquency.
However, boys who experienced maltreatment as children reported fewer symptoms of emotional turmoil and delinquent behavior compared to girls, but they were much more likely to be abusive towards their dating partners.
"These findings demonstrate the need for proper identification and services for children with histories of abuse and neglect, even if protective action isn’t warranted," says Wolfe. "Increased efforts to prevent domestic violence and child maltreatment at an early age – through family support, education, and intervention – will likely reap large benefits later in life in terms of reduced mental health problems and violence."
"The study also shows that teen dating violence may be a continuation of the patterns of abuse and violence experienced in childhood. Efforts to teach adolescents about healthy, non-abusive relationships are a viable strategy to reduce the serious levels of domestic violence in Canada."...
http://comms.uwo.ca/media/releases/2001/feb22.htmAnd so the cycles are perpetuated...
Sante!
dj
Posted by ShelliR on February 28, 2001, at 10:37:29
In reply to Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by niborr on February 21, 2001, at 12:40:40
Upon reading the quote that was provided by Niborr, I continue to feel offended by it, on points that I have not really expressed before.The first bothersome point is that what is stated is that 'Most people with depression want to feel better but are going to be afraid of doing some of the things necessary to feel better." What kind of writing is "Most people with...."? Where is that "wisdom" coming from? Also the words "self-indulgent" and "sanctimonious self-satisfaction"applied to depressed people is absoutely something I cannot relate to.
EVERYONE has resistance to change, depressed or not depressed. There are friends of mine who are petrified to leave their prestigious jobs, even though they hate them, because they are scared and at by this point stuck in the money trap. To state resistance to change specifically in relation to depression goes back fifteen or more years to a time when depression was not related to biochemistry--it was a flaw and a weakness.
As Shar, I have made many positive changes in life due to developing an openness in therapy. They have been changes that I have made while also taking antidepressants to stay stable enough to allow me to see the possibilities. While I don't expect to stay in therapy the rest of my life; I do expect to be on medication the rest of my life.
I am not in a sick role; Without the medication, I am sick.
Perhaps I am taking what was written out of context, but, in looking at what was presented, it is way too close to "you lazy and self-indulgent person, if you change your attitude we can help you change. Will the writer take away my antidepressants also? Shelli
p.s., nibor, I know this is a requested quote--and that you didn't write it.
Posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 10:49:42
In reply to Re: More on Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well, posted by ShelliR on February 28, 2001, at 10:37:29
No offense taken, Shelli
In fact, I do believe both Dick and I would agree with everything you say here. Out of context is a strange thing...maybe you will go to our site and read the longer piece, either the intro chapter to Undoing or Chapter One of Active. At this point I'm not sure where anything is from. But all the material is free so check it out and then see where you disagree.On a even lighter note, the author and I are not about to take away your antidepressants...please don't take away ours either.
Robin> As Shar, I have made many positive changes in life due to developing an openness in therapy. They have been changes that I have made while also taking antidepressants to stay stable enough to allow me to see the possibilities. While I don't expect to stay in therapy the rest of my life; I do expect to be on medication the rest of my life.
>
> I am not in a sick role; Without the medication, I am sick.
>
> Perhaps I am taking what was written out of context, but, in looking at what was presented, it is way too close to "you lazy and self-indulgent person, if you change your attitude we can help you change. Will the writer take away my antidepressants also? Shelli
>
> p.s., nibor, I know this is a requested quote--and that you didn't write it.
Posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 12:51:57
In reply to Re: More on Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » ShelliR, posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 10:49:42
Robin,
I am curious whether Dick and you also, like ShelliR, anticipate being on ADs the rest of your life and whether the therapy and other things either of you have done has helped lessen your needs for and hence dosages of ADs?
Sincerely,
dj
>... the author and I are not about to take away your antidepressants...please don't take away ours either.
> Robin
>
>...I do expect to be on medication the rest of >my life.
Posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 13:17:05
In reply to Re: ADs » niborr, posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 12:51:57
I'll ask Dick tonight...get back to you. I do know he hopes for new and better meds so expects to change what he's on as improvements are made.
As for me...I am actually down to 10 mg a day of paxil. I did that myself from 20 mg...and it's been fine on 10 for about three months now. My symptoms before taking paxil were anxiety and something like IBS; I never want to get back to those again so **** I will take paxil forever***** to keep that from happening.
Another thing, and some of this is the luck of the draw, is that things are going pretty well in our lives right now. It makes me so happy to hear from people about how they are helped by Dick...even last night after we got home from our dinner out he got a call from a woman in Ohio and talked to her for about 30 minutes. Sure they set up a phone appointment for next week, but those 30 minutes were free and would have been even if she hadn't made a future appointment. (I even had to record the middle of NYPD Blue for him.) So it feels good to know we have something to give. Sorry for rambling.
Oh yes, therapy. For me, therapy helped in making me accept I was worth taking care of--if that makes sense. Really too much to go into here/now. I'm not sure everyone would consider me okay. I am overweight and always struggle with that, I procrastinate too much, many other things. But more often than not I feel pretty good.> Robin,
>
> I am curious whether Dick and you also, like ShelliR, anticipate being on ADs the rest of your life and whether the therapy and other things either of you have done has helped lessen your needs for and hence dosages of ADs?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> dj
>
> >... the author and I are not about to take away your antidepressants...please don't take away ours either.
> > Robin
> >
> >...I do expect to be on medication the rest of >my life.
Posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 13:47:53
In reply to Re: ADs, posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 13:17:05
> I'll ask Dick tonight...get back to you.
I look forward to hearing his thoughts, in addition to your comments on this.
> My symptoms before taking paxil were anxiety > and something like IBS;Sorry, I have no idea what IBS stands for...
>things are going pretty well in our lives right now. It makes me so happy to hear from people >about how they are helped by Dick....more often >than not I feel pretty good.
Good to hear! I was glancing at your website last night and I noted, I think at the bottom of the "Undoing Depression" excerpt of Chapter 1, the recommendation that people check the library for a copy and if not to check with you folks and you'd see how you could help. That speaks to your supportive attitude as do your posts. Your helpful attitude shines through.Despite last night's off-the-wall postings to your site I imagine most people who take the time to read and contemplate Dick's words, will find some solace there...
Sante!
dj
Posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 13:50:38
In reply to Re: ADs, posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 13:17:05
Irritable Bowel Syndrome?? or something like that?? And Paxil helped with that...???
Posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 14:36:48
In reply to Re: P.S. on IBS... » niborr, posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 13:50:38
It sure did. Often, conditions like that are made worse (caused?) by anxiety. Paxil is often prescribed for it. My IBS came way before the Prozac Era, so was treated with Lo-motil, many things that didn't work. It's really terrible to not be able to leave the house comfortably, yadda yadda. I had it on and off for about ten years...and not at all since taking paxil--about five years now. Can you blame me for wanting to take paxil forever?
So why was I so anxious? That's similar to saying to someone, Why are you depressed? I could make lots of guesses, even some intelligent ones, but would never be sure of the why of it. And since it's under control, yippee, and I wish the same for anyone else.
By the way, thank you very much for the nice words about our work.
> Irritable Bowel Syndrome?? or something like that?? And Paxil helped with that...???
Posted by Todd on February 28, 2001, at 23:44:05
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » Todd, posted by dj on February 28, 2001, at 8:03:21
Hello, DJ. Really good question. I'll try to find the words to express the process. First off, my healer comes from a place inside herself that is full of light and love. I sensed that, and completely trusted her. Thank God I found her, or that she found me, or that we found each other. With all the other therapists I have encountered, I would not be nearly as willing to bare my soul as I did with her. Many other therapists are so technical and scientific that they lack the human element that is SO incredibly important in the healing process. She loved me unconditionally, yet put the full responsibility of healing myself on me. She didn't do it for me. Nobody can truly heal another. When healing takes place, YOU are the one who has done it. A healer is merely a guide.
Basically, the intense fear and depression I was experiencing seemed to me to be irrational given the set of circumstances. I knew there was no logical reason for any of it, and told myself that I shouldn't be feeling it, which brought me to her for help. She set me back on track and taught me NOT to say "I shouldn't be feeling it." That's denying your feelings, which escalates fear and depression. It's denying yourself the reality that you are experiencing. Rather, she taught me to allow myself my feelings and lovingly validated each one. She told me what I was going through was perfectly normal. That didn't make the experience any less painful, because feeling unpleasant emotions is never a picnic, but it gave me the strength I needed to grit my teeth and stay on track. You see, in order to truly heal, we really have to feel quite a bit of pain so that we can understand how our fears were formed.
She recognized that what I was going through was the pain of my inner child. She is very well-versed on these matters and is connected to them very intimately. Which reminds me of another consideration regarding a choice of therapists. Any therapist who has not done laps in their own pool of darkness will be of very limited assistance. Anyway, our early childhood is where these fears are rooted. The initial trauma, and everybody has one, is where our fears developed. We all tried to stop the pain, and in the process, blocked it up inside of us. It kind of becomes frozen there in an energetic sense. When we were little, this was our method of survival, and it served us well and kept us safe. Problem is, those subconscious methods of staying safe are carried over into adulthood and keep us from expressing our true selves and experiencing life fully.
The important thing here is what I mentioned earlier about our pain being frozen within us. Every single time in our adult lives that we experience any event similar to our original trauma, we are re-experiencing every single similar experience we have had throughout our lives since birth. At the same time! Yikes! That's what distorts our perceptions of the current situation and exaggerates the pain and suffering of our lives. A girlfriend breaks up with us and we are dealing with that, and every other abandonment throughout our lives all the way back to the time our mother first left us alone. Over time, the original trauma becomes, in our subconscious mind, something of unspeakable terror and keeps the old fears firmly in place to limit our lives. So we cut ourselves off from feeling it, but we also cut ourselves off from our own creative process that wishes to heal that pain and lead a rich, fulfilled life.
My healer basically "held" me while I experienced all of that blocked pain and helped me to understand it and to let it go. She teaches me to trust my instincts and to create what I want for myself without letting my old fears rule me. It ain't easy. Those fears are always there and continue to taunt me at times. And there is probably a lot of pain left inside to deal with. But I am learning that I am not my fears, and I am not my pain. I am learning to find the light inside of me and to let it shine through to dissolve those fears. My light is really who I am. I am just trying to let it shine brightly. Godspeed on your journey as well, and sante!
Todd
Posted by dj on March 1, 2001, at 9:07:59
In reply to Re: ADs, posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 13:17:05
> I'll ask Dick tonight...get back to you. I do know he hopes for new and better meds so expects >to change what he's on as improvements are made.
So, any word on Dick's AD shifts with current meds. and therapy?
Posted by dj on March 1, 2001, at 9:09:33
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » dj, posted by Todd on February 28, 2001, at 23:44:05
> Godspeed on your journey as well, and sante!
Todd,
Thanks for your comments and the best to you as well.
Sante!
dj
Posted by tina on March 8, 2001, at 10:28:09
In reply to Re: P.S. on IBS..., posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 14:36:48
Elavil cured my IBS. Within a week of being on it. Very cool. Even if it doesn't do anything for the panic attacks I have I'll stay on it just for the IBS.
> It sure did. Often, conditions like that are made worse (caused?) by anxiety. Paxil is often prescribed for it. My IBS came way before the Prozac Era, so was treated with Lo-motil, many things that didn't work. It's really terrible to not be able to leave the house comfortably, yadda yadda. I had it on and off for about ten years...and not at all since taking paxil--about five years now. Can you blame me for wanting to take paxil forever?
> So why was I so anxious? That's similar to saying to someone, Why are you depressed? I could make lots of guesses, even some intelligent ones, but would never be sure of the why of it. And since it's under control, yippee, and I wish the same for anyone else.
> By the way, thank you very much for the nice words about our work.
>
>
> > Irritable Bowel Syndrome?? or something like that?? And Paxil helped with that...???
Posted by Ted on March 8, 2001, at 14:10:03
In reply to Re: P.S. on IBS..., posted by niborr on February 28, 2001, at 14:36:48
I concur. Only for me it was Zoloft that cured it. Wonderful stuff!
Ted
> It sure did. Often, conditions like that are made worse (caused?) by anxiety. Paxil is often prescribed for it.
Posted by Rach on March 8, 2001, at 18:27:46
In reply to Re: P.S. on IBS..., posted by Ted on March 8, 2001, at 14:10:03
Aloe vera tablets cured my IBS. I was at a stage where I wasn't eating any dairy, wheat, and half the vegetable family. One aloe vera tablet twice a day for a month virtually cured me. I now only take the AV tabs if I feel an attack coming on, and immediately it will stop.
You can get aloe vera tabs/juice etc from any vitamin store. It would probably be better for you than staying forever on ads!
Posted by Shar on March 8, 2001, at 19:51:09
In reply to Re: NO Part of Me Doesn't Want to Get Well » shar, posted by Todd on February 28, 2001, at 1:59:01
You wrote...
>Those fears were put in place to keep you safe in your childhood environment. ... Part of you (and me, and everyone for that matter) still clings to those fears because they keep you safe. That's why there is a part of all of us that still clings to those fears and doesn't want to get well
>Unconsciously, those fears are firmly in place, keeping us repeating the same patterns over and over again. ....
>CHOOSE how you wish to act instead of running on fear-influenced autopilot.
Todd--I think we differ in that I don't believe I (me, myself and) cling to fears, I believe in the past I've held onto SURVIVAL behaviors...which as you alluded to, don't help a lot in adult relationships. One can say well there is a precursor to any survival behavior, but the thing I keep repeating is the survival behavior. The precursor is a fear that will probably never go away, that probably occurred on a pre-verbal level, and it does not have to go away. I can and will understand my survival behavior, and either let it go or tailor it to better fit my current environment.
So, IMHO we still don't want to stay unwell, consciously or unconsciously. However, as Shakey said, "There are more things in Heaven and earth, than or dreamt of.....etc....." It is an empirically unanswerable question, that (as I said in my post) boils down to opinion, and it could well be that believing makes it so--believe one wants to stay unwell and one will, believe one does not want to stay unwell and one will not. Quien sabe?
My unhappiness and displeasure about hearing the statement, and that someone would make the statement, and how I believe it is a slap in the face to people, is unremitting.
Shar
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