![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Posted by judy1 on January 15, 2001, at 21:43:13
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
That was beautifully said, but are you doing okay? I know how incredibly frustrated you must feel. Take care of yourself- Judy
Posted by shellie on January 15, 2001, at 22:22:48
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
> I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Scott, I know the feeling. We have both lived, but perhaps not in the way we would have liked to, or deserved to. I have much more in my life than I had ten years ago. It still isn't nearly enough, but I had a turn in life that I never anticipated--a creative career. This, after not being able to work at all. So who knows what will happen to you in the next five or ten years.
Perhaps something wonderful. Shellie
Posted by Cam W. on January 16, 2001, at 8:17:37
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
> I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Scott - Hey buddy, after all of the people that you have helped here (including me) how can you say that? Take it easier on yourself, dude.
Your friend - Cam
Posted by Noa on January 16, 2001, at 9:14:17
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear » SLS, posted by Cam W. on January 16, 2001, at 8:17:37
I think it was John Lennon who said something like,
"Life is what happens when you are waiting for something to happen"
or something like that (I am sure I will be corrected by some of our well-read posters).
But I think I know what you mean, Scott---feeling like the struggle goes on and on just to get to a point where living can happen.
I guess I am fortunate that my depression has finally gone into something of a remission, although I still have to dig myself out of the hole I dug myself into.
I also realized at some point that I have to consider this the real thing and not the "dress rehearsal"---this is life, maybe not what I had hoped for, but it is life. It is my life.
If life is a journey, what is the destination? There is none, really, because then the journey would be over. I have to think of it as a journey with resting places along the way where I can feel little bits of accomplishment.
Scott, you rarely post on the social board, so I am so glad you did. Your post conveyed difficulty feeling hopeful. That worries me. Say more.
Lots of people here have been helped by your information and support, now we'd like to give something back to you.
Posted by shar on January 16, 2001, at 11:34:18
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
Scott,
This issue has come up for me lately. At 49 I think I'm getting a sense of my own mortality, and do not want to spend the rest of my years the way I spent the earlier years. I want to experience more glimpses of awe and joy.Even when I am really in a depression, there are things that will catch my attention, like nature. I can stand for a long time watching bees landing on flowers for honey, or watching the trails ants make (ever notice they aren't all over the place? they follow their trail) and how some ants will walk right over others and nobody gets hurt. The moon is always a good object d'stare.
I don't expect unremitting joy, I do intend to do more of the things that bring me moments of pleasure or peace or contentment. I should probably qualify that a bit to say "when I am able" because, honestly, there are times when it is too black to see. I guess it's a matter of doing what we can when we can.
I am sure you have some pleasure-bringers too. And don't forget the healing power of humor. I wish you well finding the good stuff in your years to come (even if it is only moments of good stuff).
Take care -- Shar
> I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Posted by Christina on January 16, 2001, at 15:19:28
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear » SLS, posted by shar on January 16, 2001, at 11:34:18
The reasons ants follow a trail is because the scout ants leave behind a hormone that encourages the other other ants to follow it to food, etc. That's why some ants will crawl over others, so they can stay on the trail.
I learned that watching some nature show during a bout with insomnia.Now, on the subject.
I often feel like my life is passing me by. I should be doing more, having more fun, being more productive, leaving more of a legacy, oh.. and weighing less.
Posted by Janice1 on January 16, 2001, at 17:40:25
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
> I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Hi Scott,
I know that fear. I can still feel it when I read what you wrote. I'll tell you my biggest fear.
dying.
Not being dead. not not living. but knowing I'm dying - expecially if I feel like I haven't fully lived.
Yiiiiicccckkkkks!!!!!
Janice
Posted by ksvt on January 16, 2001, at 20:06:36
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by Janice1 on January 16, 2001, at 17:40:25
> >Scott, I think I understand how you feel but I also agree with Janice. Sometimes, like Shar, I feel like I've wasted an incredible amount of time being depressed and I can get beyond morbid when I think that things will never change - that I'll always be like this. If I'm honest with myself, however, what I really fear is dying before I get a chance to make things better, even if that means learning how to accommodate better or be more accepting of what has happened. To cut the journey short is like the worst self fulfilling prophecy - you deserve to do better by you than that. ksvt
Posted by quilter on January 17, 2001, at 0:07:38
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by ksvt on January 16, 2001, at 20:06:36
My greatest fear is that there IS eternal life, and death would just exchange this particular hell for one even worse. Quilter(once upon a time)
Posted by SLS on January 17, 2001, at 7:42:15
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by quilter on January 17, 2001, at 0:07:38
Hi guys.
I would like to thank each and everone of you for your concern, support, and suggestions.For the moment, Risperdal is helping. It has only been a week or so that I have felt significantly improved. As was mentioned on the other board, I have a hard time being *cautiously* optimistic and have had to emotionally recover from the disappearances of quite a few transient antidepressant responses that lasted no longer than a few days. Even with these qualitatively small improvements, It has been so cruel for me to have had such teasingly fleeting tastes of real human life. I live in nothing short of an altered state of conscious, as do many of us.
I think the extent to which one can live any kind of life by accepting one's condition and learning to adjust somehow doesn't seem to be applicable to me. With the help of Lamictal and a tricyclic, I have been able to think and read a little. I have been able to participate on Psycho-Babble. I have had enough mental energy to turn on my computer and do something other than type random DOS commands (which I learned during a few days of a brief improvement) just to have enough stimulation to get out of bed. I spent the better part of the last two decades immobile on a couch staring at a wall for an entire day with the T.V. tuned to CNN. When my parents would arrive home from work and ask me "Did you here about so and so... What did CNN have to say about it?" I couldn't answer, not because I couldn't remember, but because I never knew. I had not focused my attention on the T.V. for the whole nine hours I sat in the room. It was not unusual for me not to be able to feed myself. And even when food was prepared for me, it was an effort to bring the fork to my mouth from the plate. I often stopped half way, frozen, waiting for another parcel of mental energy to complete the movement. When getting out of my parent's car, one that I was in driven in three to six times a week, I would have to search and learn the location of the door handle almost every time. The degree of dementia was unspeakable. These things did not occur episodically, they remained static, day after day, year after year. Staring into space.
I try hard not to exaggerate. For each one of us, our depression is the worst in the world simply because it is ours. We know nothing worse. It is our life that has been affected and our feelings that bring us pain. Perhaps my depression is no worse than anyone else's. I wouldn't know. I only know mine.
My condition does not lend itself to the kind of acceptance and adjustment that allows one to simply get on with their life despite the effort necessary. However, I have always been able to look and find the joys that extant as the beauty and order of our universe.
No.
This time, I think I would be devastated if Risperdal were to stop working.
- Scott
Posted by judy1 on January 17, 2001, at 15:45:09
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 17, 2001, at 7:42:15
Hi Scott,
I've taken risperdal off and on for 3 years now- and it has NEVER lost it's effectiveness. It sounds like you've found your "miracle" combo- go ahead and be optimistic. I think if you don't carry an added burden of personality disorder (although anyone who has been depressed for a lenghty period must have some work to do) the light should be visible. Take care- Judy
Posted by Noa on January 18, 2001, at 16:18:51
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear » SLS, posted by judy1 on January 17, 2001, at 15:45:09
Scott,
I know you have mentioned thyroid issues in the past, and I just have to ask about them again, after reading your description of what you call "demential" and sounds a lot like "brain fog" to me: what is your thyroid status right now?
Posted by shar on January 18, 2001, at 22:05:15
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 17, 2001, at 7:42:15
Scott,
You have my total compassion in dealing with this shit. My depression is not like yours, yet I know somewhat the feelings that can occur when one is "teased" (as you so aptly put it) with life and then taken back into depression.I am really with you, I want you to know that your words spoke to me, and my heart goes out to you. Please hang in there. I know it is the absolute pits, but don't let go that last inch of rope.
Here is a cyber bear hug for you: O
Take care,
Shar> Hi guys.
>
>
> I would like to thank each and everone of you for your concern, support, and suggestions.
>
> For the moment, Risperdal is helping. It has only been a week or so that I have felt significantly improved. As was mentioned on the other board, I have a hard time being *cautiously* optimistic and have had to emotionally recover from the disappearances of quite a few transient antidepressant responses that lasted no longer than a few days. Even with these qualitatively small improvements, It has been so cruel for me to have had such teasingly fleeting tastes of real human life. I live in nothing short of an altered state of conscious, as do many of us.
>
> I think the extent to which one can live any kind of life by accepting one's condition and learning to adjust somehow doesn't seem to be applicable to me. With the help of Lamictal and a tricyclic, I have been able to think and read a little. I have been able to participate on Psycho-Babble. I have had enough mental energy to turn on my computer and do something other than type random DOS commands (which I learned during a few days of a brief improvement) just to have enough stimulation to get out of bed. I spent the better part of the last two decades immobile on a couch staring at a wall for an entire day with the T.V. tuned to CNN. When my parents would arrive home from work and ask me "Did you here about so and so... What did CNN have to say about it?" I couldn't answer, not because I couldn't remember, but because I never knew. I had not focused my attention on the T.V. for the whole nine hours I sat in the room. It was not unusual for me not to be able to feed myself. And even when food was prepared for me, it was an effort to bring the fork to my mouth from the plate. I often stopped half way, frozen, waiting for another parcel of mental energy to complete the movement. When getting out of my parent's car, one that I was in driven in three to six times a week, I would have to search and learn the location of the door handle almost every time. The degree of dementia was unspeakable. These things did not occur episodically, they remained static, day after day, year after year. Staring into space.
>
> I try hard not to exaggerate. For each one of us, our depression is the worst in the world simply because it is ours. We know nothing worse. It is our life that has been affected and our feelings that bring us pain. Perhaps my depression is no worse than anyone else's. I wouldn't know. I only know mine.
>
> My condition does not lend itself to the kind of acceptance and adjustment that allows one to simply get on with their life despite the effort necessary. However, I have always been able to look and find the joys that extant as the beauty and order of our universe.
>
> No.
>
> This time, I think I would be devastated if Risperdal were to stop working.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Cass on January 19, 2001, at 18:33:12
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by Janice1 on January 16, 2001, at 17:40:25
My greatest irrational fear:
That I could become evil. (All of my parents, whole and step, were capable of unconscienable, psychopathic behavior. So I have a fear that since I am their "seed", I must have that capacity. Rationally, I know I'm not evil. I'm not hurting anyone, and I have a therapist who would tell if I were going down the wrong path. It's just a horrible cloud that hangs over me.)
Another fear:
Like SLS, that I will die without having lived. More specifically, without having lived up to my potential, contributed to the world or made use of my talents. I haven't lived a great deal, although I have dealt with profoundly disturbing issues and situations, and throughout, I have generally maintained my integrity.Another fear:
Physical pain. I have endured a great deal of physical pain, and I know that it truly depletes life of joy and any reason to live. If a person has not lived with chronic pain, they really don't understand.
These are the fears that pop into my head as the very deepest ones. Perhaps it's good to get them out.
Posted by gwen on January 20, 2001, at 18:54:14
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by Cass on January 19, 2001, at 18:33:12
I think I am not so afraid to die. Often I wish I could be dead and when I have been in situations that are dangerous, I have thought that I really wouldn't mind if something happened and I died.
What scares me is that I will never be as young as I am right now. What scares me is that I am spending what are ostensibly the best years of my life feeling depressed, and by the time I get out of it, if I ever do, it will be too late. Or maybe I don't know how to live happily. How does one define having lived?
Posted by tina on January 20, 2001, at 19:33:36
In reply to My Greatest Fear, posted by SLS on January 15, 2001, at 21:08:57
My greatest fear is being alone. I'm living that now. I guess if I can say that I'm "living" my greatest fear, I CAN live.
> I am not so scared of dying as I am of never having lived.
Posted by roo on January 23, 2001, at 11:46:09
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by tina on January 20, 2001, at 19:33:36
I'm scared I"m always going to have to live with
this disease. I'm scared of the way it affects
my behavior and my tendency to internalize everything
and take things very personally. I'm scared I'll
never be able to have a "real" job, because my
emotional state never seems stable enough. I'm
scared it's never going to go away. I'm scared I'm
so unhappy with myself, that i'll never be able to
find love with another person. I'm scared that maybe
this isn't really a physical disease, maybe i'm
just a self absorbed, navel gazing negative person.I get really scared sometimes. And I feel like
a bad person on top of it. My biggest lesson is
how to treat myself with compassion when I'm in
pain. If I could do that, it wouldn't be as bad,
it seems. Sometimes I get tired of the struggle.
I have my inspired, energized, positive days, but
when I'm going through the dark times, none of that
seems to matter.I'm rambling. Your post moved me too, Scott.
You are dealing with a very heavy load. I am
so sorry and hope that the meds continue to work
well for you. I'll say a prayer for you.Ruth
Posted by Noa on January 24, 2001, at 12:25:49
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by roo on January 23, 2001, at 11:46:09
Ruth, you expressed some of my fears well.
Posted by dove on January 24, 2001, at 15:33:55
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear » roo, posted by Noa on January 24, 2001, at 12:25:49
Struggling on and on, just to get to the place where life and living consort, and then the wherewithal and retrospective comprehension show you all you have missed, all that has passed you by, and then you must turn forward again or risk losing your foot-hold, and struggle forward knowing what you have missed, what you have had, what you are having, what you may miss, and what you may attain all in a blink of an eye.
There is always guilt to be faced with, self-condemnation to be silenced, hopelessness to be ignored, personal utter failure to be dismissed with every inhale and exhale. Even when things are bright and shiny there hides a shadow, whether real or imagined, waiting to engulf the victory of lightness.
One must deceive their own mind, must essentially assassinate part of what they are in order to conquer the fear; for the enemy lies within not without.
And what *is* life, what is living? Without life there is only emptiness, death. Without death is there merely consumption and waste, is that all life amounts to? And if indeed there is life and death, living and deceasing, is there then an afterlife?
Yes, I believe so, for without that key belief I'm sucker-punched and gone. Belief is a powerful tool, and a powerful weapon. The tool can be wielded with grace and beauty for good, and just as easily it can turn on its owner, consuming the vital life-giving blood, leaving a vulnerable shell in the weapon's wake.
And the afterlife holds much fear, anticipation, hope, and anxiety for me. However, this is a much better outlook than nothing at all. And deep in my bones I feel there is a "prince of darkness" who carries disease and death as its rewards, and I believe there is a King of Lightness, of life itself, who will break the prince of darkness' stranglehold on this mortal life, the King of Life will prevail, and that is the immortal afterlife I hope to reside in.
Dearest Scott, you always touch me, and I am *SO* grateful for your attention, your mental acuity, your gentle prowess in your advice, and your warm friendship. You are so hard on yourself, and I don't blame you as I fight the same battle daily, the fear of losing the battle is so great, yet the promise rests just beyond our fingertips, or just beyond our long-range vision depending on where your *exact* location on the map is :-) I send my appreciation, my prayers, my hopes, and my love out your way Scott!!!
~dove
Posted by SLS on February 8, 2001, at 9:54:46
In reply to Re: My Greatest Fear, posted by dove on January 24, 2001, at 15:33:55
Dear Dove,
> Struggling on and on, just to get to the place where life and living consort, and then the wherewithal and retrospective comprehension show you all you have missed, all that has passed you by, and then you must turn forward again or risk losing your foot-hold, and struggle forward knowing what you have missed, what you have had, what you are having, what you may miss, and what you may attain all in a blink of an eye.
> There is always guilt to be faced with, self-condemnation to be silenced, hopelessness to be ignored, personal utter failure to be dismissed with every inhale and exhale. Even when things are bright and shiny there hides a shadow, whether real or imagined, waiting to engulf the victory of lightness.
Wow. You hit my target.You are wonderful for contributing this.
Your post moved me immensely by affirming in words that which I experience but try to have remain hidden. I felt that I needed to endure these things in relative solitude. I guess I haven’t been quite as alone as I thought I was. I now feel closer to being human.I know it is a little late to acknowledge how important this post is to me. I have had to read it several times.
There was no way that I could read it in its entirety and take in everything at one time. Each time I read it, it strikes me as to how precisely you describe my experience – the physical, intellectual, emotional, and spiritual. You have allowed me to better identify and understand my own thoughts and feelings by circumscribing them with your words.Thank you.
Most sincerely,
Scott
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Social | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.