![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 8, 2004, at 16:42:56
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:13
No reason to have to have her know you shared it with us. No reason to apologize either. I like to read good writing, regardless of subject matter. It's truly hard to keep relationships fresh.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:09:06
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 8, 2004, at 16:42:56
And sad.
I agree with miss honeychurch. Show her! She needen't know you posted it here.
Sounds like you both want to revive things.
Perhaps you guys could plan something romantic?
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 19:05:51
In reply to That was beautiful, posted by alexandra_k on December 8, 2004, at 17:09:06
None of the damage seems unrepairable or untreatable. We'll see.
Posted by Susan47 on December 8, 2004, at 21:34:06
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 16:17:13
Who are you apologizing to, her or us? No need to apologize to us. I'm sure we all enjoyed your lovely reminiscing. It's sad, but you made it beautiful.
Posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 22:10:24
In reply to Re: Painted into corner » Toph, posted by Susan47 on December 8, 2004, at 21:34:06
Thanks Susan. We're actually painting and I've used a little poetic license to make a story. But it was inspired by the realization that we are doing a lot of painting now and very little fooling around. Ten years ago, it was quite the opposite.
Posted by saw on December 9, 2004, at 7:36:51
In reply to Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 15:01:07
I posted on PBW prior to catching up on this thread. As I mentioned, I was deeply touched by this story.
I do not know you, or your writing style, so I guess I can be forgiven for not realising you were writing about yourself. Now it's sadder than ever.
I want to say something about how your story is teaching me something but everything is coming out "wrong". I have rewritten this sentence about 10 times.
I guess I will have to leave it there for I feel so sad for you and I don't want to say something that sounds disrespectful.
I need to stop now.
Sabrina
Posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 7:53:41
In reply to Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 8, 2004, at 15:01:07
My Dearest Toph,
You have a beautiful mind. Beautiful insight. Beautiful heart.
This is what I think you should do. Copy and paste what you have written. Put it in Word. Tell her you've been musing about your relationship and descided to start a journal. Then show her what you wrote.
It's funny how we sometimes tend to dwell on the here and now and the presures of living. It makes us forget things we should remember. That moment, that one moment in your mind was special to you, and perhaps she needs to know that. Maybe you will find that it is special to her as well. Remind her. Remind her how much you love her and how much you wanted to relive that moment again. Rings can be cleaned. Shirts can be cleaned and wall that hear screaming can be painted over. Broken souls are not so easy.
Women tend to think they are not sexy after a certain age.........moia included. It's hard to finally enjoy sex, feel desire, but not feel comfortable in your body.
You are a lovely person.
Ada, wishing I had a moment like that to remember, Grace
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 9:16:21
In reply to Re: Painted into corner » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 7:53:41
Ada, I'm so special, Grace,
We were actually talking about our intimacy problem a while back. She was assuming that our not having frequent sex anymore meant that I didn't find her attractive. I complained that I enjoy spontaneous sex, but she needs to have the right mood, you know, candles and silky stuff, not because the Cubs made the playoffs. Then we recounted all the crazy sex we had like when we went sledding at 2 am in the dark and had sex in just our boots on top of the hill. We can't drive by that hill with the kids without cracking up. Then there was the time when her bother was staying with us so we drove out on the golf course and steamed up the windows. Or the time we had a quickie behind a partition at the Milwaukee Museum of Art as a sort of performance art. We laughed about how desperately in love we were when he went to her cousin's wedding andwe waited until the kids were asleep to make love all the while trying not to make any noise lest we wake the kids. That night, she took a shower and I got in with her and, well, we need a bigger shower. Unfortunately, that night was a couple months ago.
-To,why can't it last,ph
Posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 9:24:08
In reply to Re: Painted into corner » Toph, posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 7:53:41
Is it possible she feels worn down by all life's little betrayals?
Her husband isn't always the man she envisioned.
Her children took more than they gave.
Her face passed its most beautiful before
her soul had a chance to catch up.
Her children left home before
she had a chance to properly hold them.Is there a romantic trip she hasn't taken yet?
One that you could help provide?
Warmth, and sunshine, and
the sound of waves on the beach.Or, Michelangelo's David, his Pieta ...
Can not the house painting wait until you return, with the romance truly in your hearts again? Let art inspire you to romance ...
If there's hope, it's most likely life that's wearing her down, not you. She needs inspiration.
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 9:30:25
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 9:24:08
I don't suppose you're talking about the Cubs either.
Posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:09:54
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 9:30:25
...And as I go through my life
I will give to her
my wife
All the sweet things
I can find ...
Toph, I was dead serious. You're not getting it.Listen.
Spontaneous, fun sex, is great. But the soul has to be healed and happy for that to happen.
She needs much more than you seem to realize.
Do you want me to Babble you, or stay away?
Posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:15:57
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:09:54
Why don't men get it?
This is why I really love my ex-therapist. He understood. He knew. There's more, much much more. There's art, philosophy, SOUL in life, as women we get so little of that.
We always being
squashed in the daily
practicalities of life.Where are you Men, to Rescue us from that? Have you forgotten one of your primary roles? Despite ERA etc., it's all still happening. Don't you understand? It's related to us being the childbearers, even if we don't ever have children we carry the legacy from our mothers, grandmothers, great etc etc etc think about human history. You've been the workers, the drones, and so have we. That's why art and philosophy fill us up so well, it's the most ignored part of humans but it's the most ephemeral, the most beautiful, it's the part of us that believes and knows that peace and love exist, and without art and philosophy we will never EVER get past the discomforts that plague humanity.
Over.
Posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:19:39
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 9:30:25
Aren't YOU an "artist"? Or is it someone else I'm thinking of? In any case, at this point that seems irrelevant.
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 10:29:02
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:09:54
I'm sorry, Susan. I think you know I was kidding. I was making fun of me not you and especially not all womenkind. I do get it. I get that I am a bipolar fuque up who got a lucky, really lucky second chance at having a partner to accompany me through life. My wife is special, I mean really special. You guys would love her, hell everybody loves her. She goes flying off to New York and Vegas with her girlfriends because they love her as much as I do. She has raised my two kids as her own, even through step-child rejection and disrespect unbegrudgingly. And her daughter, my step-daughter, is the most precious child, intelligent and caring like her mom. I get it. A wife is such a gift. But I screw up not because I'm a man, Susan, but because I've got a lot of stuff left to figure out. I know some women like me.
-Toph
Posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:33:56
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:15:57
Actually, considering human history, men HAVE NOT been the workers, the drones.
They've had time by the fact of their physical make-up; that is, unable to bear children,
to create art and music, to philosophize and make history.
And whenever women have done that, they've been burned as witches, heretics, jailed like criminals ...The fact of my own physiology, and how it's formed and shaped my life, depresses me greatly.
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 14:24:40
In reply to Re: Painted into corner, posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:09:54
>
> Do you want me to Babble you, or stay away?I want you to stay. You have important things to tell me, even if I don't always want to listen.
Posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 16:52:59
In reply to I take this back. Men have NOT been that., posted by Susan47 on December 9, 2004, at 10:33:56
I understand what he is saying...........
spontaneous combustion is a wonderful thing to share and the beauty of it is that afterwards.....you smile about it all day long and the afteraffects, the sweet slow afteraffects in the bedroom with the flowers and the candles and the rose petals.........are much sweeter......much much more sweeter.......
Ada, wishing for a dryer scene, Grace
Posted by AdaGrace on December 9, 2004, at 16:55:17
In reply to Re: Painted into a corner » AdaGrace, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 9:16:21
Well Dear Toph,
Try having one of those about once in a blue moon and then tell me about losing the lust of love.
Did I mention the dryer?
Ada, remorseful, yet somewhat stimulated by your writing, Grace
Posted by alexandra_k on December 9, 2004, at 18:19:56
In reply to Re: Painted into a corner » Susan47, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 14:24:40
I agree that spontaneous sex is great.
but both have to be spontaneously in the mood.It sounds like she needs some romance.
It takes a special effort to arrange that.
Take her out somewhere
So she can get all dressed up
And feel beautiful
So that when you tell her she is beautiful
She will believe you.That kind of thing shows a girl that she is worth all that effort.
Then the spontaneous thing might come back.
Just MO
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 19:58:11
In reply to Romance... » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on December 9, 2004, at 18:19:56
You're so right alexandra, when we go on a trip together, it's like another honeymoon. The kids aren't around, no pressures from work, no making the bed, dining out every night and exploring some new city or culture together. The sparks fly.
But I'm sorry that this thread become about sex. I wrote my story about intimacy. How we try to cover up the pain we inflict on each other and how the ring that symbolizes the union tarnishes with time. The dispassionate part is just another symptom of a neglected relationship. I find it so ironic that I can share my most personal anguish with total strangers but I can't even turn off the damn TV for a second and tell the most important person I've ever known that I love her and how devestated I would be if she were gone. What is the matter with me?
Posted by alexandra_k on December 9, 2004, at 21:10:40
In reply to Re: Romance... » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 19:58:11
But the whole point of romance is that it is not just about sex, it is about intimacy too!!!
If you go out for a couple of drinks and dinner then you can talk over dinner. Or if you go to a play or something then you will have something to talk about. I don't know, is there anywhere you used to go or anything you used to do that you could do again (and I'm not talking a drive by to an old place you had spontaneous sex here). Talk to her.
And when thats going well tell her how much she means to you. And how you feel like you have been drifting apart and how you want to be closer to her. Tell her it's not just about sex, its about intimacy too. All the stuff you are telling us, tell her in a genuine way. She is probably just dying to hear you say it. Sounds like she thinks you don't find her attractive anymore - but you do, you are just having trouble letting her know that.
This kind of stuff is hard for guys isn't it...
Posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 22:05:08
In reply to Re: Romance... » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on December 9, 2004, at 21:10:40
I need to be more positive in general. I'm kind of a half empty person. You're really going to hate me for this, but she grabs my hand in public and it's like awkward for me. But I remember when we met I couldn't keep my hands off her. We'd kiss in a mall and stuff like that. I was 40 years old for Gods sake. And she walks kind of slowly so I end up walking ahead not paying attention. I guess you can imagine how that makes her feel. There's lots of little stuff I need to pay more attention to. But you guys keep mentioning the communication and the expression of deeper emotions that are obscurred by all the complicated crap in our lives. Maybe one of you could come to dinner and coach me. I tired I don't know what I'm saying anymore.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2004, at 1:14:42
In reply to Re: Romance... » alexandra_k, posted by Toph on December 9, 2004, at 22:05:08
Oh Toph.
Okay, maybe forget the planned romance idea, sounds like that is way too much pressure on you.
What about a holiday, though? Would that be feasible (as you have said that they are wonderful)?
What if you said to her that you wished you could take her on a holiday so that things could be like that.
I still reckon that you should try really hard to tell her some of this stuff. Especially the stuff about how much she means to you and how devistated you would be is she was gone. When something like that is genuine you would be amazed at how it can have the power to make some of those small hurts just receed.
I dare say that she would be pleased that you are noticing that things aren't as intimate as you'd like (how many guys complain about that one!). I dare say she'd be pleased that you would like to do something about it.
That story about the walking was both sad and beautiful again, I can picture it.
I dare say that she'd be pleased that you noticed.
Posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2004, at 1:18:13
In reply to Re: Romance... » Toph, posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2004, at 1:14:42
What would I know?
I am only 26 and have never had a proper relationship.
I just think it is the saddest thing in the world that you clearly care for her so much
But can't reach out across the divide.What if you printed out all these posts and gave them to her. If you said that you didn't know what to do but the issue was really important to you and that that was why you brought it up here?
((((Toph)))) - you are a sweet and thoughtful guy, you know.
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on December 10, 2004, at 9:01:02
In reply to Oh Toph, posted by alexandra_k on December 10, 2004, at 1:18:13
I think you're able to share this with us so readily becuase you know more or less the reaction you'll get from us. However, should you turn off the TV and share with your wife, you probably have NO idea what her reaction will be. And that can be quite terrifying. Perhaps you're afraid she'll laugh or show indifference.
And speaking from personal experience, saying things like you don't want to live without her, etc., is embarassing. It is for me at least, and I'm not sure why. I suppose it shows weakness and possibly neediness.
I think you should start with handholding. Instead of recoiling if she takes your hand, YOU initiate this. She will probably be shocked and more than likely quite pleased.
Go forward in thread:
Psycho-Babble Relationships | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.