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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 16:16:11
Longtime Babblers will probably remember that, almost two years ago, my psychoanalyst kicked me out of his office; I was posting then as Pfinstegg, but, when that happened, I changed names as well as analysts. I think I wrote here last December that I had filed a complaint against him with the Ethics committee of our local Psychoanalytic Center. This was a professional complaint only- it did not involve the licensing board.
The wheels turned quite slowly, but eventually I was asked if I would meet with him in the presence of the Ethics committee (a small group of five experienced analysts). I said that I would. However, he did not agree to do it, and sent a colleague/friend in his place. I had my statement carefully typed out and presented it. I was asked a number of questions- they were all very relevant- but there was no rebuttal or disagreement, with his representative just quietly taking notes to give to him.
After that, I didn't know whether anything more would happen, but just last week, I was told that the Ethics Committee had concluded that he had conducted himself in an inappropriate and harmful manner towards me. They had recommended to him that he seek consultation on a regular basis for the next six months, so as to minimize the chances of him getting completely derailed by counter-transferences, as he apparently did with me. He was also asked to give them an update on that in six months. I don't think any of this is binding, except that his reputation is very much at stake among the few colleagues who now know what happened.
I don't think I will know any more about what happens- but in a way, it's really no longer any of my business. Doing this much really helped me put the whole horrible episode behind me. I was trying to do that anyway, of course, but just doing this one thing helped me a lot.
Thank you to all who suffered along with me through this, and who gave so much unconditional support. You played a big part in helping me get up my courage to do this.
Posted by Dinah on February 21, 2009, at 16:45:09
In reply to a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 16:16:11
I'm really glad you did that, and that he ended up getting consequences. Your therapy ending with him was one of the scariest and most shocking I'd ever heard on Babble. He clearly could use some help with processing countertransference and I hope he now realizes that ongoing supervision might be helpful for him.
Posted by DAisym on February 21, 2009, at 18:42:17
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on February 21, 2009, at 16:45:09
I second what Dinah wrote. I'm glad you followed through as well. I believe that your analyst was so good for you for so long that his breakdown needed (s) to be addressed professionally to prevent further harm to you and others. You have forced him to look at himself.
I'm sure it wasn't an easy process and it you were very courageous to follow through. I'm glad you have found a great therapist to help and support you as you heal, which you clearly are doing.
Thank you for the follow up.
Posted by Kath on February 21, 2009, at 19:32:48
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one!, posted by DAisym on February 21, 2009, at 18:42:17
I wasn't following things then.
I would like to applaud your strength & good self-care in going ahead with that.
You sound like you're feeling pretty strong.
hugs, Kath
Posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 19:51:18
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » DAisym, posted by Kath on February 21, 2009, at 19:32:48
Good for you! I am in the process of complaining to licensing board for my ex T's conduct. My ex T doesn't even believe in transference, let alone counter-transference. Don't know if you remember me, I am happyflower mostly.
I am glad to hear your story because I feel you did the right thing, too many T's and others in power of authority get away with hurting clients.
Posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 21:26:09
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by Dinah on February 21, 2009, at 16:45:09
Thanks so much for your words of support and encouragement, Dinah, Daisy, Kath and Happy. It really was the most violent and amazing thing that happened, because he had been so competent and helpful up until that point. As you can imagine, my present analyst and I have spent many, many hours trying to help me get past it all; the most recent comment he made was, "you are probably the only one who knows he's crazy!" His not showing up at the committee meeting was discouraging. because it may mean he is going to continue in denial.
The course I chose was the least severe one. When the committee member telephoned me about their recommendations, he reminded me that there is no statute of limitations on matters like this. If I choose at any time in the future, I could make a stronger complaint which would involve legal consequences. I got the impression that all the members of the ethics committee are worried that he will repeat the same thing that he did with me and hurt someone else. He has an extremely good reputation, and also presents himself as a very experienced, trustworthy and empathic therapist- sort of the "last person" one would imagine doing such a thing.
I do remember you, of course, Happy. I read the list of all the inappropriate things your ex-t said to you, and also remember the context- that he had encouraged a very eroticized transference which spilled over into other contexts, like the gym. I always thought that he took advantage of the fact that you were very open and vulnerable then to try and fulfill sexual needs of his own. I'm one hundred percent behind you in your efforts to obtain some kind of legal sanction for what happened. Really, he sounds like he doesn't have a clue and needs some basic education and therapy himself!
Posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 21:58:39
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 21:26:09
Do you think your T was just scared to face you? Well he SHOULD be, lol.
I am not doing anything legal at this point, just reporting to the APA.
When you describe your old T, it sound a lot like my old T. It makes me think that sometimes the power gets to their head and the fact they have such a reputation allows them to take bigger risks.
How does turning in your T feel now? What has your T done to help you move through this. My T has been trying to get me to see that this wasn't my fault, he was responsible. She said even if I came on to him (which I didn't)or even enjoyed the attention, it was up to him to not allow the relationship to become sexual in nature. He lost his mind, really.
I am so glad you posted, and I hope it isn't the "last" time either.
Posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 21:59:51
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one!, posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 21:58:39
Posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 22:37:28
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one!, posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 21:58:39
It's hard to imagine what he may have been thinking. I don't think he would have been able to make his behavior look anywhere near normal or acceptable in front of that committee, and he probably knew that.
Basically, you are following the same route I did- I did it with the local chapter of the American Psychoanalytic Association. It did not take a lot of time, and I felt that I was treated fairly and respectfully. They were obviously trying to do the same for him.
I am very glad I did it. I waited until my anger and outrage had calmed down, and I feel that what is being asked of him by the ethics committee is appropriate, and even necessary. He could well do the same thing to other vulnerable patients. What he did to me falls under the category of emotional abuse- an uncommon area for complaints; what happened to you falls more under the area of sexual boundary violations, I think.
My "new" t has helped the most just by being a witness. He wants me to tell him as many times as I need to how hurt and rejected I felt- as well as how angry and disillusioned. He said it can be thousands of times, until I no longer need to. He really doesn't even remind me that I'm not at fault, because his eyes, demeanor and intense listening ability tell me that without words.
Your T is right- even coming on to a therapist. if you had done that, and enjoying his sexual interest in you, is not wrong at all. If a therapist is able to handle it skillfully, it can even be a tremendous asset in changing and growing.
Posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 22:54:42
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 22:37:28
So did they interview you in person or by "paper?"
I just wonder what they asked you and how and all that jazz.
My T violated a lot of stuff, so I will just tell them everything.
He disclosed some of his formal clients, even showed me a picture of one of them.
The sexual stuff you already know about.
I included the emotional abuse thing too. With him yelling at me because I wasn't listening to him.
Too much disclosure about himself.
Plus a lot of boundary crossings like appointments going well into his lunch hour, and for no real reason other than to chat. Plus engaging conversation with me after termination, without me starting it, smaller stuff like that.
My T also says that I can talk about this as long as I need to. It sounds like we both have good T's now. :-)
Posted by rskontos on February 21, 2009, at 23:26:17
In reply to a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 16:16:11
Twinleaf,
I am so happy that you've finally gotten validation from his peers and able to get past this horrible experience. I hope it helps others.
I am glad you posted this.
And it is clear you are doing so well with your present t.
take care,
rsk
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 22, 2009, at 5:19:38
In reply to a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 16:16:11
Twinleaf,
It's nice to see you here again and especially with this good news. I want to say 'thank you' because in standing up for yourself and helping yourself to move on from this difficult chapter, you are indirectly helping others under his care. To be a good analyst you have to be in top mental condition (in my opinion) otherwise it can all go horribly wrong. It does sound like he is in denial but I expect the pressure from his professional colleagues will have a strong influence on his decision to seek consultation.
Obviously, I wasn't a part of babble when this all happened but I read through some of your threads in the archives. What I find remarkable is how you have pulled yourself back up despite of this trauma. How wonderful and forunate that you now have such a skilled and capable therapist.
Witti
Posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:03:58
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by HappyChaiTea on February 21, 2009, at 22:54:42
I wrote out my complaint in a ten-page paper, including my own personal history, a summary of what had happened in the good years between Dr. W and me, plus a detailed account of the things which had gone wrong. I used quotes, as I had them in a journal, and I wanted to be sure i did not get too anxious and begin exaggerating. I sent this in, so the committee was familiar with it. I also read part of it aloud to start off the meeting. I was mostly asked how I had been affected by it- especially whether I had had more anxiety and depression, any further loss of self-esteem, any new symptoms such as derealization- after it happened. I answered those as fully as possible. I think they wanted to see how much damage had been done, and I tried to give them as complete answers as I could.
I had the sense that this was a very distressing occurence for them to deal with. My own present therapist said it might be very hard for the committee to hear, because he was "their best and brightest" They were very open to hearing me, though, and
I know they believed everything that I told them.I hope you have an equally good experience!
Posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:16:38
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by rskontos on February 21, 2009, at 23:26:17
Thank you, rsk! I appreciate the support so much. Things are going very well with the analyst I have now- he's just a magically good fit- and it really sounds as though the same thing is true of you- you sound completely different- so much more confident and happy- than a year or two ago.
I saw the YouTube video of your lovely daughter during one of my blocks. She was so poised and beautiful- you have absolutely everything to be proud of!
Posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:36:07
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by wittgensteinz on February 22, 2009, at 5:19:38
Thank you, Witti! I really appreciate hearing from you. I know that you also are seeing an analyst, and so understand the intensity of these relationships, and, as you say, how important it is for them to be in really good mental shape. Mine appeared that way, but I think there must have been powerful destructive feelings in him way beneath the surface.
I credit my "new" analyst for helping me recover from all that, and even for helping me towards real recovery. I was just so lucky to literally stagger into his office almost two years ago!
I think I saw here that you are preparing to go to University in Holland- to study medicine? That's so great! I did that, and I have always loved it.
Posted by rskontos on February 22, 2009, at 18:46:21
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » rskontos, posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:16:38
Thanks so much about seeing my daughter's video. She is singing this weekend at her university (Purdue) in support of Breast Cancer, in which she will have a solo singing the song, Just Stand Up, which is a song done by various singers recently. You can youtube this special song. Her sorority is a part of this fundraiser each year and this year they asked for sorority sisters to sing if they felt comfortable and my DH volunteered. And has a solo. I am going up to see her performance. Thank you for watching her video and for the wonderful things you said.
And you are welcome for the support. I do think things are going well with my T.
I am just glad you're back.
rsk
Posted by HappyChaiTea on February 22, 2009, at 20:07:44
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » HappyChaiTea, posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:03:58
Wow, twinleaf, you are so brave. That had to be so nerve racking just doing that, at least it would be for me. Were you allowed to have anyone in the room with you for support?
So your T didn't show up, but he had a representative or something? How many were there in the committee? Did you know ahead of time that your T wouldn't be there?
Sorry for all the questions, I hope it isn't bugging you, I am just curious of what I might have to be doing. How long do you think it took from the time you first wrote the complaint to when a decision was made?
Posted by lucie lu on February 22, 2009, at 21:47:20
In reply to a follow-up- the last one!, posted by twinleaf on February 21, 2009, at 16:16:11
TwinLeaf,
I am really happy to hear about how the board responded. You are a remarkable person and deserve this closure. It is so important that we get acknowledgement when things go so wrong, yet too often it just doesn't happen. I'm glad it did this time and hope it will for HF as well.
When this all happened a couple of years ago, I was lurking on babble from time to time but not yet posting. I actually came upon the relevant threads around that time because (for some reason that escapes me now) I had been searching for something related to horses (I am also a rider). I remember being aghast at what seemed to me to be a psychotic break on the part of your former analyst. And impressed at the courage you displayed in proverbially getting back up on the horse (sorry, couldn't resist) and starting again with a new analyst. Sounds like he was heaven-sent.
Anyway, congratulations, and I hope this helps to further bring closure to you. I wish you love and healing.
Lucie
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 3:51:44
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » wittgensteinz, posted by twinleaf on February 22, 2009, at 17:36:07
Yes, you're right - I'm just preparing to send off my application form. There's quite a procedure and I'm really hoping I get a place (my biggest hurdle is the language - I have to take several entrance exams, all in Dutch). It's a big step for me to return to studying. I had been in my final year of a degree in England when I became too ill to continue. It was a tough decision to opt for something completely new/different instead of going back to finish but I think it's time for a fresh start. It's nice to hear that you have never regretted chosing medicine - hopefully it will be right for me too.
Witti
Posted by twinleaf on February 23, 2009, at 17:01:05
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 3:51:44
My tiny knowledge of Dutch (a summer biking there) told me it was a really hard language! I'm sure you'll succeed, though- perhaps you will even be using Dutch with your analyst in a few years!
Posted by wittgensteinz on February 23, 2009, at 19:32:43
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » wittgensteinz, posted by twinleaf on February 23, 2009, at 17:01:05
Actually it's funny you say that. He is probably the person I feel the most insecure about speaking to in Dutch. We've talked quite a bit about why this is.
Anyway, the last couple of sessions we have spoken Dutch - with a few breaks in English - he started talking in Dutch and each time I would reply in English and then after a bit I replied in Dutch. I'm terrified of failing/making mistakes - this is a problem I have - so this was a big step for me. I rather liked it in the end because his voice is softer in his native tongue - he has more freedom of expression (although I obviously have less).
This conjures up the image of being a child terrifed of letting go of the side of the swimming pool and being gradually guided out, safely, without realising it. It's funny that this particular image comes to mind because I did have a traumatic experience in a swimming pool as a child and it was likely one of the primary sources of this performance anxiety/failure anxiety I now have. Hmm something to talk about tomorrow maybe :)
The Netherlands is certainly a good place for a cycling holiday :)
Witti
Posted by twinleaf on February 24, 2009, at 17:45:01
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by HappyChaiTea on February 22, 2009, at 20:07:44
Happy, I was dealing with psychoanalysts, so everything was smaller and more personal than it's likely to be with the APA. But i do hope you have as fair and good an experience as I did. I made my written complaint in December of 2008. I got phone calls- some asking me whether I wanted to file the type of complaint which might have legal consequences, or the kind aimed at professional competence and performance. I chose the latter. The hearing was in early February, with five analysts, plus me and the colleague who was there for Dr. W. They were very experienced and fair, and stuck very closely to my account of what had gone in therapy. No-one ever used my illness-complex PTSD- against me- to make me feel on the defensive, or less than fully competent. I was never questioned as to whether or not what I said was accurate-they acted like analysts in therapy- very, very accepting! They spent most of their time asking me about what the consequences had been like for me- did I have more trouble sleeping? did I ever feel paranoid or derealized? did I have less confidence in myself? did I have more difficulty trusting my "new" therapist? and etc.
After that meeting, I received a phone call about two weeks later from the head of the committee telling me what the outcome had been in terms of suggestions for Dr. W. All of them were unfailingly respectful and courteous- so that taking this action turned out to be therapeutic in and of itself. I hope the same thing happens for you!
Posted by twinleaf on February 24, 2009, at 17:52:07
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » twinleaf, posted by lucie lu on February 22, 2009, at 21:47:20
Thank you, lucie! I really appreciate your warm wishes. How nice to know that you are a fellow rider. I credit my beautiful Hanoverian, with his little nickers and whinnies, face-nibbling and soulful eyes, with being close to half of the reason I'm feeling so much better. Or perhaps I should say that my wonderful analyst has made it possible for me to enjoy once again all that the horse has to offer. That's probably more like it...
Posted by rskontos on February 25, 2009, at 17:55:58
In reply to Re: a follow-up- the last one! » lucie lu, posted by twinleaf on February 24, 2009, at 17:52:07
beautiful Hanoverian as well! I did not, or maybe I forgot, that you were a rider. We own three horses. One is a baby, well, she is almost 4. My daughter hopes to get her going this summer or we will have my daughter's best friend get her going.
I also did not know Lucie was a rider. I haven't been riding lately with the cold weather. i hate the cold.
Our baby, Coco, coliced last week and had me worried but the barn manager said it wasn't a bad one more like a bad stomach ache.
I used to have a farm but the work got too much for me without my DH to help.
take care,
oh our Hanoverian is name Ringo Star because the trainer that breed him loves the Rolling Stones.
rsk
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