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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
Maybe we should start another thread about poster's remorse! There certainly seems to be a lot of it going around.
I know that for myself, every time that I post something (either my own post or a reply) I always have *huge* anxiety afterwards. I'm not quite sure how to avoid that yet. I'm so afraid about unintentionally upsetting someone or missing the mark in my reply. I also fear that I exposed to much of myself and will be judged or rejected.
I don't know how this happens, but it also never fails that as soon as I hit "confirm your post" I find something that I immediately wish I could change - both content and missed editing. Before I hit submit I read over my post carefully, but still it never fails. Then do I submit a new post to correct it, or just let it stay as is?
I'm not sure if this anxiety is something from my childhood stuff, or just a normal part social interaction that everyone goes through? Or maybe it's because we are sharing some of the most complex-scary-hidden things within us with the same honesty and vulnerability that we use when approaching these things within therapy?
When you start having feelings about posting (poster's remorse) what aspects trigger you and what do you think it is all about? What helps you? Is there something we can do to reduce the remorse?
Thanks,
Turtle
Posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
it's a tricky thing you know
we benefit so much from other viewpoints
I think there is a huge fear that others will see what we share as an attack.I mean sometimes people do attack, but I don't feel it happens too much around here. It's certainly not where I am coming from.
I remember what its like to have someone take what they know about you and use it as a weapon. My mother was like that. ..and when she was fighting she would walk back and forth, back and forth, thinking of something that would hurt and then she'd throw it at me or some other family member. It was like she was trying to utterly destroy the other person. She is not the type of person that can take any feedback, it generally just provokes an attack.
I learned to just remove myself from the interaction...it was just too painful, and then I'd feel provoked and then attack (verbally)..and on and on it went.It takes a risk to tell someone how you feel about something and share your viewpoint.
I don't tend to feel attacked here. I do often hold back on how I feel about things.I'd like people to share their viewpoints with me. I don't tend to see it as an attack here. It's all about the spirit in which it is shared. I like to be honest in a way that is respectful and with the intention to be helpful.
I also don't like to guess about what people are thinking/feeling, to wonder what they "really" think. Some of that comes from the desire to not be hypervigilant about when the next attack might come..when the "truth" comes spilling out like a weapon (this again relates to my experience with my mother). Sadly, she tries so hard to be "nice" and "giving", but rather than being the "ungrateful child" I always seem to turn into in her eyes, I'd rather have more honesty and less rage that she eventually sends my way.
My mother and I have never been close. It hasn't been possible. As an adult I have simply learned to listen, not to respond to the "hooks" she sends my way, not to disagree at all, not to react, but just to be there. Generally, there is no two way conversation.
For a while when I was a child I would be with her, connected to her and reacting to all her ups and downs and rages....and I remember making a decision to disconnect.
it was after she took all our pictures down from the wall (my sister's, my brother's, my own)because she was angry about something. I stopped trying then, it felt too hurtful.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:47:44
In reply to little verbal abuse trigger, posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
I think if we feel triggered against something someone has written, we should just step away and not post. I am trying to do this, and have gotten a lot better at it but sometimes it hurts a lot especially when you are told to go somewhere else to post, that what you write isn't acceptable, even if you didn't break any rules.
It is a fine line to defend your triggers, and tell someone to go away, because what you write hurts them, but it will hurt them if you tell them to go away. I think sometimes if we are trying too hard to tell someone something without wanting to hurt them, we should step back, and probably not post right then. Because words hurt, everyone has the potential to hurt, even when you try not too.
I don't know I keep going back and forth in the issues of whether I should be here or not. Sometimes it is good people know you in order to help you, but it is also a way to hurt someone by taking what they know against you. I don't know I just feel drained about this issue. I am beginning to regret ever posting here.
Posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:55:56
In reply to Re: little verbal abuse trigger, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:47:44
> I think if we feel triggered against something someone has written, we should just step away and not post. I am trying to do this, and have gotten a lot better at it but sometimes it hurts a lot especially when you are told to go somewhere else to post, that what you write isn't acceptable, even if you didn't break any rules.
>
> It is a fine line to defend your triggers, and tell someone to go away, because what you write hurts them, but it will hurt them if you tell them to go away. I think sometimes if we are trying too hard to tell someone something without wanting to hurt them, we should step back, and probably not post right then. Because words hurt, everyone has the potential to hurt, even when you try not too.
> I don't know I keep going back and forth in the issues of whether I should be here or not. Sometimes it is good people know you in order to help you, but it is also a way to hurt someone by taking what they know against you. I don't know I just feel drained about this issue. I am beginning to regret ever posting here.It is really hard isn't it?
-sid
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:58:22
In reply to Re: little verbal abuse trigger, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:47:44
Maybe some people should just not read my posts if they are that sensitive to what I write. I think the reader has some responsibility of being here and reading. We can't control how people will react to our posts, we can't possibly eliminate all triggers for everyone, so the reader themselves need to take care of themselves and not read from people they know to have triggered them .
When a post says that maybe Babble is not a place for you to vent job frustrations, even when you broke no rules, hurts that person because you are telling them to go away. So maybe one is triggered from that poster's post, that is one thing, you gotta take care of yourself, but when you tell them not to post, than that is being hurtful to them.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on December 7, 2008, at 15:58:39
In reply to little verbal abuse trigger, posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
yes, the
Submit your post
button is a tricky one. I am too often impulsive, and say the first supportive, or at least relevant, thing that comes to mind. I'm in awe of posters who are so thoughtful and philosophical about their posts. Sometimes I find myself vacillating (vaseline anyone?) and changing things here and there. I will usually check my emotions when I push that button. If I feel really petulant, or cunning, I will generally scan things about a hundred times to make sure I'm not crossing the civility line. If I'm feeling kind of unsure, I will read my post again, try to figure out if it's supportive, and post it anyways. A lot of times, I am fairly confident that I don't add anything substantial to the discussion, but I still want to be a part of it. Does THAT make any sense?
There are certain times when I sense that what I write will be scrutinized. I try to engage in this scrutiny, by giving readers something worth scrutinizing.
In general, I am immensely grateful when folks respond to my thread. Yes, I understand that everyone comes to this board with their own experiences, opinions, biases, struggles. That's what makes it a wonderful place. There are many forms of support here. Sometimes a poster will gently suggest that I'm not seeing the whole picture. gulp. often they are right. Sometimes a suggestion will force me to stretch my mind open a little further. That's cool. And often I find that others are able to make much more sense out of my life than I have been able to, perhaps by stringing a necklace out of all the beads that lay scattered on the floor of my recollection.
What I hate to see though is intolerance. In general, this board is rarely the scene of a PBC. I think it is necessary for us to be able to disagree, however. Having an open mind is essential for growth.
Regarding "support". I do not regard support as being some form of unconditional coddling regardless of our fears that a poster is headed down a path of (self?) destruction. I refuse to be along for that kind of ride. Again, the open mind can be used to hear another poster yelling "veer left!!" despite the raging storm.
Yeah, I guess I'll stop for now.
Interesting topic for a thread.
-Ll
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:00:24
In reply to Re: little verbal abuse trigger » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:58:22
Then when you purposely not respond to a certain poster who triggers you, they can sometimes get upset because it seems like you are ignoring them. Maybe you are just trying to keep safe. It seems like there is not a win -win situation.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:04:45
In reply to that little button, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 7, 2008, at 15:58:39
Do you think that if you have to scan a post that close to make sure it is not against civility rules, that maybe being that close to the line should probably be a warning that something shouldn't be posted anyway?
Posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 16:15:12
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
I do review and edit my posts most times. And sometimes end up chucking the whole post anyway. I don't think I worry so much anymore about posting in anger. I have gotten better about walking away and taking some time to gain perspective. I do sometimes think about what I've written and come back to correct the impression I've given, even if maybe it wasn't necessary. I'm not OCD for nothing.
I really do like this particular board. Because people generally do mean well, and people generally do post generously. I feel totally comfortable assuming that if something doesn't sound supportive, I've likely read it wrong. And at the very least I should give others the benefit of the doubt. Even when something flares up, others generally respond with support and caring and a lack of defensiveness that really does give me an excellent example to aspire to.
But posters regret....
Well, I tend to overdisclose. Sometimes I feel a lot of shame over what I've written. Perhaps because it's something personal to me and that I don't really feel good about, perhaps because I'm afraid I'll get in trouble somehow, or perhaps because I feel guilty for saying too much about my therapist or mother or someone other than myself. Something that might cast them in an unfairly negative light. I worry whether I've been as scrupulously fair as I ought to be, and of course I know I haven't been.
I rarely have reason to regret my reckless vulnerability here. I can't begin to express how much I appreciate Psychology Board babblers for that. But perhaps a bit of poster's regret isn't an entirely bad thing. If not to protect myself then at least to protect the people in my life, who are filtered through my own lenses, and probably don't deserve for me to be totally candid in what crosses my mind sometimes.
Posted by llurpsienoodle on December 7, 2008, at 16:16:24
In reply to Re: that little button » llurpsienoodle, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:04:45
Hey SSSS,
are you okay?
We must have been cross-posting, because I wrote my post immediately after obsidian's post.
-Ll
I'm not exactly sure how to respond. I don't want to ignore you nor do I want to aggravate you. You'll just have to take my word on that.
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 16:24:13
In reply to Re: that little button » SlugSlimersSoSlided, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 7, 2008, at 16:16:24
I am feeling a little annoyed, but I am okay, thanks for asking.
I just know that "hidden attacks" have been a topic of the boards before. And I am not implying by NO means that you do this.
I was just wondering if maybe it should be a sign that we (everyone) shouldn't post if we are trying that hard to make sure a post is civil. Overall the message will probably not come out civil to the recipient of the message because it is so close to the line. Just wondering if that could be a sign to use for the future for myself.
Posted by lucie lu on December 7, 2008, at 17:32:32
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
...but I thought turtle's thread, following up after witti's thread, was more about self-disclosure. I thought the question was more about when does openness and sharing become TMI? And what are our worries about that?I think that many of us are trying to balance trust and shame. We reach a point of trust, which is often a good thing and a sign of our growth, when we decide to share intimate details with others here. But many of the things we share come with a measure of shame, from the things we have had to live with. We hope that our peers, the people we care about, will say, oh yes, I have felt the same thing, and we (and they) will feel some comfort in not being alone. But at the same time we fear that others will say "Ugh, that is even yuckier than yuck! Isn't (s)he ashamed to post about that stuff?" We are afraid, understandably, to bare our souls and receive either deafening silence in response or have others be disgusted or rejecting or whatever. We take a big risk when we post things about ourselves. And it takes a lot of trust in the goodness of other people on the board. And I think that in the vast majority of cases, the disclosure *does* touch other people and is helpful both to the poster and in terms of reaching out to others. It is hard to know what can be done to ease the anxiety of self-disclosure, other than to have others acknowledge it and appreciate the effort and risk it took. But I think that at least one of the functions of this board is to provide an opportunity to be open and real on this board and to help ourselves and one another to grow through our difficulties with kindness and supportiveness. And you don't have to agree to be kind and supportive.
Just my two cents. I think this is a great board, and it has helped me a lot.
Lucie
Posted by Wittgensteinz on December 7, 2008, at 18:11:37
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
Well, you know I get poster's remorse too :) - but it was worse when I first joined babble. I tend to come and go. Sometimes I'll post something and think "oops" and will wait a while before posting again. Other times I feel more at ease and just think "what the heck" and move on. Perhaps that's how I am in life too - sometimes ducking for cover, other times just shrugging and going on.
People tend to post about very raw and difficult things here - things we wouldn't easily talk about to our very closest and dearest. In fact, some of the things I write here are their first exposure to the world outside my head - so they are crude and daring and hence make me extra vulnerable.
I often worry that I write too much or give too many details - partly because I want to remain anonymous and I know that someone who knew me and read this board might be able to put the pieces together (I've decided it's a small enough risk to take) - the thing is, the details are often the most poignant, interesting and important things. I like reading about the 'little things' that effect people in their lives - and in their therapy - they capture the imagination.
I must admit I almost always read my posts back several times before publishing them - despite doing this I'll usually cringe at something or another in the published post.
If it's any comfort, I find your posts beautifully written and full of meaning. I really appreciate what you have to write here and hope you continue despite the dreaded poster's remorse :)
Witit
Eeks.. typo.. a Freudian slip perhaps?!
Witti
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2008, at 18:16:30
In reply to little verbal abuse trigger, posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
Sid, I am sorry bout you Mom, sounds rough. Words can be so awful. My ma and sis would fight, and their words were so awful to hear, like they were cutting each other to pieces. I was alwasy afraid one of them would off themselves. The idea of them duking it out ohysically wasn't so bad, but the verbal lashings were terrible.
Sorry that you had to endure that.
Ya, sometimes just listen is right.
Thats a skill I need to learn perhaps.
Sure glad you posted, you don't often say much bout yourself so it is refreshing to have you share.
Thx,
M
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2008, at 18:22:09
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
I sorta get posters remorse, but only in passing.
I guess for me, I just goto trust myownself to post as kindly as possible. As far as self disclosure, I oscillate. Sometimes I truly don't care if all in the world know of who I am, then sometimes I want to shrivell up and hide myself in shame at all of who I am.
But I am like this alla the time, not just babble.
I think to reduce the remorse for me, is just like I said, trusting my intentions, and just like so much in life, just saying oh well, and letting it slide, cuz often, in the grand scheme of things, truly, its just not all that important.
Thats bout what I do.
Best wishes to you Turtle.
Muffled
Posted by muffled on December 7, 2008, at 18:25:54
In reply to Re: poster's remorse » turtle, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 16:15:12
I love how you post.
Only time it is hard for me is when I can just feel your angst, or what I perceive as such comming across.
And its not really hard in a bad way, just I would want to come alongside you in your struggles.
I just don't always know what to say.
But I don't think you overdisclose.
LOL!!! mebbe < I > do !!! LOL!!!
Oh well.
:-)
M
Posted by lucie lu on December 7, 2008, at 18:36:38
In reply to little verbal abuse trigger, posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
Sid,
I'm with Muffled. Sounded like it was tough growing up in your house. But I was interested in hearing you talk about it, which you don't do so often. And I learned something more about you.
Take care,
Lucie
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 22:48:19
In reply to little verbal abuse trigger, posted by obsidian on December 7, 2008, at 15:25:36
Sid -
I'd like to echo what the other's said in that I'm glad you felt able to share a bit of what it was like for you growing up. It is exhausting to be with someone who whips you around with their ups and downs.
Disconnecting and not responding is effective in limiting the backlash that comes at you, but has a side effect of causing all sorts of problems as you repress yourself. I can see how always expecting backlash could make it difficult to feel open to posting.
Has this effected your therapy much? I notice that I expect to step into land mines in therapy too, and when it doesn't happen I tend to be suspicious. I tend to think that my therapist must have pockets of the negative stuff hidden somewhere, but is just good at suppressing it for now and I'll run into it sooner or later. It's got to be in there somewhere, but she doesn't talk enough for me to know where the hidden dangers are yet. I'm not sure that I really understand the 'being there for me' and being nonjudgmental yet. Maybe with more time! I think I have some of the same duck and cover response/fears after I post too.
thanks,
turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 22:50:32
In reply to Re: little verbal abuse trigger, posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 7, 2008, at 15:47:44
SSSS -
I'm sorry that you are feeling so hurt and rejected. I think that you are experiencing right now the pain that many of us are afraid of encountering after we hit that submit button. One of the risky things about posting on a board like this is that it is easy to become triggered or trigger someone else, regardless of what the topic is or what we say. I'm very sorry that it ended up that way. I wish I knew the words to say that could help you not feel so bad. I'm feeling a little inadequate right now though in knowing how to help you. Sorry.
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 22:52:12
In reply to that little button, posted by llurpsienoodle on December 7, 2008, at 15:58:39
Llurpsie -
I like your suggestion of checking your emotions before hitting that button - except I'd probably get lost in fear and uncertainty and never post again! I also agree that support lies more in the capacity to open our minds to new concepts more than unconditional regard, although a little positive kindness does go a long way. By the way - I very much appreciate reading your creative and insightful posts.
thanks,
turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 22:55:23
In reply to Re: poster's remorse » turtle, posted by Dinah on December 7, 2008, at 16:15:12
Dinah,
I agree that posters do tend to generally mean well. I like your approach of giving the benefit of the doubt, especially since the written word can be so tricky.
As for over disclosure bringing shame, fear, and guilt, well you hit the nail on the head! The problem for me is that my ability to use those emotions to judge whether I've actually over disclosed is pretty useless. I remember my first therapist being pretty dismayed when after a whole year I was still pretty much not sharing anything real. I made some little disclosures (very piddly compared to where I am now with my new therapist) and I felt absolutely mortified and reckless. She got pretty tired of me.
It's interesting that you view Poster's Remorse as a double check to keep you from posting too much. I think I see it as getting in my way from posting as much as I'd like to.
thanks,
turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 22:59:20
In reply to maybe I'm missing something here, posted by lucie lu on December 7, 2008, at 17:32:32
Lucie,
I think that many would agree with you that the issue is a balance of trust and shame. Sometimes shame is in my blind spot, which leads my wise therapist to tell me that sometimes the emotions we have the hardest time feeling are the most important to us. Maybe so.
For me, I think my posting problems are a balance of trust and fear, since fear is one emotion I'm well dialed into at the moment. I think one of the dilemmas of posting in an open community like this is the question of how to build trust with an open, ever changing collective? My therapist is very gentle and stable. Not only is she soft spoken and accepting of me, but she is also has a dual-career as a religious leader (although we never discuss religion). How much more safe and trust worthy can you get than that? Yet, almost a year into it with her I'm still going through the 'withdraw then rebuild safety and trust' dance regularly, even though I can clearly see that she is doing nothing to create this in me. Babble feels like an ever swirling risky venture compared to that! My experience here so far has been very rewarding though and worth the risk.
I am sorry that you are having a difficult weekend with your mother. It made me sad to hear that you were hiding in the basement. The basement just won't do! It made me wish that I could call you up and plan a 007 style get away for you. You need a real break, not just a hide out. I've been very touched by your posts this weekend.
Thanks,
turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 23:02:20
In reply to Re: poster's remorse » turtle, posted by Wittgensteinz on December 7, 2008, at 18:11:37
Witti -
Thank you for saying the nice things about my posts. I do very much enjoy reading yours too. It is interesting how being anonymous plays a part in how we feel about posting such personal things. The things we talk about here are very deep things that we keep hidden even from ourselves many times. Yet, we write it out here and put it on permanent display open to all. It seems very strange, doesn't it?
Putting these things about ourselves out for comment brings up some complex emotions. The sense of community and support is very rewarding though. I've learned so much from others. I do have to say that your last post about memories was just what I needed right now. Some of the things you posted overlapped so well with what I'm struggling with in therapy right now. The things that are coming up for me are very scary and disturbing to me right now, and your post helped me feel not so alone (or crazy) any more. Thank you.
Turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 23:04:48
In reply to Re: poster's remorse » turtle, posted by muffled on December 7, 2008, at 18:22:09
Muffled
I think that most people here do come with good intentions, as so often shows through in your posts. Everything can be very difficult though when we are talking about such vulnerable topics. I'm glad you seem to be doing well.
thanks,
turtle
Posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 23:10:55
In reply to poster's remorse, posted by turtle on December 7, 2008, at 14:48:14
Well, the topic is Poster's Remorse after all. It seems I'm experiencing some right now. I'm very sorry that this thread has been triggering. I meant it to be a little light hearted support. At least I didn't have the dreaded No One Responding problem! Thank you to all of you for joining in!
Turtle
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