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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
Here's a question. I'm sure it's been asked before... but after such a great therapy session tonight I am feeling a little playful I guess.
How many of you carry on what feels like a whole relationship (of any kind) with your T in your head?
1. If you do, how does it differ (if it does) to the real relationship you have in your sessions together?
2. How much time do you spend talking to your T in your head (if you do such a thing as I seem to do much of the day)?
3. Do you ever argue with the T in your head?
4. And, lastly, if you have insights about what this head-relationship is all about I would love to hear them.
(Bonus Question)
Oh, and if you ever have sexual fantasies about your T please feel free to share that (not them, just the fact that you have them) so that I don't feel so alone...
Finding My Desire
Posted by SlugSlimersSoSlided on December 3, 2008, at 0:47:55
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
You will have lots of company here, who probably have done some if not all of these, but I aint telling! lol Really I think most of these things are part of the therapy process.
Posted by workinprogress on December 3, 2008, at 0:58:50
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
Good questions FMD!
Unnumbered question: Um... yeah, ALL the time!
1. Hmm.. How is it different? Well, it's less of a "conversation" so much as either, if I'm lucky, internalization... or, speculation on what she would say I suppose. For instance, the other day I was talking with a therapist in training re: my daily calls to my T. I was explaining to him how they helped settle me and helped make real "out of sight isn't out of mind", bc I couldn't believe it before. Once I started calling her every day with my little reports, I knew she couldn't forget me... and I felt more secure. He said "I bet she'll be glad when you don't have to call anymore". I said, no, I think she'll be fine if I do it from now until the day I die... and it won't mean anything to her, it won't mean I haven't grown, it'll just be what I need. And later, I thought in my head, is that right? yeah, that's what she'd say, she'd say she's ok with me however I am and whatever I need. It doesn't matter to her, she doesn't see it that way, it's not black and white. It's the process, acceptance. And I left that message on her vm. And she emailed me back and said... You're right, I agree with YOU, not him.
2. Lots. Or more thinking... what would she say?
3. Nope... she'd win too much!
4. Hmm.. Love. Transference. Most importantly, internalization I think.
I want her to be my mom... so, I think the relationship is a little too immature yet (mom/kid) to illicit sexual fantasies.
All that said... FMD, you are oh so normal in your strong feelings. And oh so normal in feeling oh so uncomfortable about that. I feel like at least 50% of this board is about that tension. It's why I found it in the first place....
WIP
> Here's a question. I'm sure it's been asked before... but after such a great therapy session tonight I am feeling a little playful I guess.
>
> How many of you carry on what feels like a whole relationship (of any kind) with your T in your head?
>
> 1. If you do, how does it differ (if it does) to the real relationship you have in your sessions together?
>
> 2. How much time do you spend talking to your T in your head (if you do such a thing as I seem to do much of the day)?
>
> 3. Do you ever argue with the T in your head?
>
> 4. And, lastly, if you have insights about what this head-relationship is all about I would love to hear them.
>
> (Bonus Question)
> Oh, and if you ever have sexual fantasies about your T please feel free to share that (not them, just the fact that you have them) so that I don't feel so alone...
>
>
> Finding My Desire
Posted by jouezmoi on December 3, 2008, at 4:28:19
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by workinprogress on December 3, 2008, at 0:58:50
Yes to All, depending on gender. I have had several Ts over time. I think this is normal. It also makes you feel less alone. It is almost like religion and talking to God (except for the sexual fantasies). Something about it so similar.
Posted by Suedehead on December 3, 2008, at 8:45:38
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
I haven't been around lately due to end-of-semester stress, and I feel weird about posting so sporadically, but I wanted to answer this one, as it's actually a question that my T asks me a lot himself. One of the things we're working on, in fact, is my tendency to conduct relationships in *general* in my head. So, here goes...
1. It differs mainly in that I'm able to 'emote'. In session, I'm pretty withholding in that respect. We have a great rapport, we joke a lot and are able to have wonderful intellectualized conversations about whatever it is that I want to talk about, but I have a lot of trouble *showing* emotion when I'm with him. So, for instance, I've never cried in front of him in real life, but in my head, I'm able to do so with ease.
2. He's with me all the time, it seems. Really. It's a little excessive, probably, but I sort of narrate the day's events to him as I go about my life--on the walk to the trolley stop, on the commute to school, in my lectures, at the gym, I'm constantly 'talking' to him, telling him what I'm doing, what I'm thinking about, how I'm feeling.
3. No, not really. We argue enough in real life! Lately, anyway.
4. In my case, at least, there are probably at least a couple of things going on. First, I like to talk to him in my head as a defense against loneliness, since I spend a lot of time by myself. Second, I find that staying engaged with him between sessions, even if it's only in an imaginary sense, helps me to maintain some measure of continuity in our work together. Third, I'm really, really attracted to him. It's a bit like having a crush; I just can't *help* but to think of him all the time. And finally, as I mentioned earlier, I'm pretty emotionally inhibited with him, and talking to him in my head allows me to 'practice' saying the things that I will hopefully one day be able to tell him in person.
And, yes, I definitely have sexual fantasies about him!
Posted by LadyBug on December 3, 2008, at 11:15:53
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
Oh, I have conversations in my head with my T all the time. I've talked it over with her, she said if we are doing good therapy, this is what's supposed to happen.
And yes, I've had arguments in my mind with her.
I suppose I'll have these conversations with her the rest of my life. Just as I will have conversations with my mother in my head the rest of my life.
I can totally predict what she will say to my comments.
Fantasies? No, and I'll keep it that way. I will admit wondering about her and her spouse though, but not often and it's not in a sick way, more of a loving affectionate way.
It used to be about the first thing that popped into my head when I woke up each day, a conversations with her? And the last thing I'd think about before going to sleep. It was very comforting to me to think of talking to her before going to sleep, especially during a very trying time in my life.
My mind didn't know the difference between real conversations and ones I had in my head.
Good therapy is what this is.
Posted by sassyfrancesca on December 3, 2008, at 14:26:23
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
> Here's a question. I'm sure it's been asked before... but after such a great therapy session tonight I am feeling a little playful I guess.
>
> How many of you carry on what feels like a whole relationship (of any kind) with your T in your head?I talk to him a lot in my head.
>
> 1. If you do, how does it differ (if it does) to the real relationship you have in your sessions together?I need to tell him the truth, but don't want to right now, so I talk to him in my head and out loud while driving.
>
> 2. How much time do you spend talking to your T in your head (if you do such a thing as I seem to do much of the day)?Depends on what I am feeling about him.
>
> 3. Do you ever argue with the T in your head?
No, in person (LOL)
>
> 4. And, lastly, if you have insights about what this head-relationship is all about I would love to hear them.Well, ours really isn't a head relationship....it has progressed to a PERSONAL relationship. It would have been better for me if he hadn't shared his struggles about his feelings for me.
I mean, what can I do with: "If I were not married i would probably go for it."
As far as "head" stuff, he told me that I am IN his heart and head.
>
> (Bonus Question)
> Oh, and if you ever have sexual fantasies about your T please feel free to share that (not them, just the fact that you have them) so that I don't feel so alone...Been havin' 'em every day for 4 years. I have also shared them with my t (one is quite graphic----it was a dream I had)
I've written elegant, erotic, tasteful poetry (years ago), and let him know I was in love with him.
Excruciating that he cannot reciprocate.....my truth to tell him is: How dare he lead me on for years......how sadistic.
Sassy
>
> Finding My Desire
Posted by TherapyGirl on December 3, 2008, at 17:13:56
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
> Here's a question. I'm sure it's been asked before... but after such a great therapy session tonight I am feeling a little playful I guess.
>
> How many of you carry on what feels like a whole relationship (of any kind) with your T in your head?
I definitely do. Always have.
>
> 1. If you do, how does it differ (if it does) to the real relationship you have in your sessions together?
In my head, this relationship is all that I want/need it to be. She's more of my mother and we spend WAY more time together than we do in real life. The first few years, the relationship in my head was the only one that included me actually talking.
>
> 2. How much time do you spend talking to your T in your head (if you do such a thing as I seem to do much of the day)?
This really varies, depending on what's going on. But the minimum is probably twice/day.
>
> 3. Do you ever argue with the T in your head?
Of course. Doesn't everyone? LOL
>
> 4. And, lastly, if you have insights about what this head-relationship is all about I would love to hear them.I choose to believe that this is part of the process of internalizing our Ts -- having them in our heads so that eventually we can move through life without them. For me, especially at first, it was safer to have a relationship with her in my head because I could control it all (very important for those of us who had rough childhoods).
>
> (Bonus Question)
> Oh, and if you ever have sexual fantasies about your T please feel free to share that (not them, just the fact that you have them) so that I don't feel so alone...
You're not alone and I understand how this would happen, but I don't do this. My T connection is completely maternal.
>
>
> Finding My Desire
Posted by wishingstar on December 3, 2008, at 20:31:47
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
I definitely have a version of my T in my head all the time. With my past T, the one I just terminated with recently, most of the "conversation" in my head consisted of me picturing her telling me to do (or not do) something in particular and me recognizing what she'd say but cursing at her to shut up etc. I never really felt like she quite "got" me, so while I'm sure some of her advice was very good, I never really listened fully because I was so frustrated with other things. With my current/new T (who isnt really new, seen her on and off for years)... it's a bit different. It's harder for me to imagine what she'd say so I dont typically have conversations with her in my head, but I am able to hold on to her presence much more than other Ts I've had. For instance, if I have to do something very difficult or anxiety-producing, I can picture T in my head and remind myself that she thinks I can do it. She calls that "borrowing strength"... it works for me. I dont have any wonderful insights, but as others have said, I do think the process of internalizing our Ts is important. What it really is is internalizing the "lessons" of therapy through that person (the therapist) I think. It's all just complicated.. I wish I knew.
Posted by no_rose_garden on December 3, 2008, at 20:49:03
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by wishingstar on December 3, 2008, at 20:31:47
It's hard for me to talk and make sense in session, so w/ old T, I had great conversations in my head and told him everything I ever wanted to.
I especially talked to him in my head when I was sad/upset or when I wanted him to be proud or so mething. He would always try to make me feel better with logistics, etc. Or he would be very proud of me.
One of my favorite times to think about it when I was running once and started crying and sat down on a bench. I couldn't stop crying and I just imagined him coming and sitting next to me and comforting me. Not so much a conversation but pretending he's there.
I think for me it's putting the voices in my head that I need to have for myself...telling myself that I'm not a worthelss and that I'll be ok.
Posted by onceupon on December 3, 2008, at 22:43:21
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
Reading everyone's responses on this thread has really got me thinking. I've always talked to my therapist in my head - more often when I'm feeling distressed, lonely, needy, etc. But she doesn't really ever talk back in my head. That fact made me wonder to what extent I've actually "internalized" her, as a therapist, or as a person.
Then again, I don't often imagine conversations with other people either, so maybe it's just my lack of imagination.
It occurs to me that the kind of talking in my head that I do with my therapist is usually very affect-laden, crisis-y kinds of stuff. And it usually involves some kind of desperate discussion of how I feel towards her - this is, of course, the kind of stuff that I don't get into as much as I'd like in sessions. It always seems to take me so damned long to warm up (IRL) before I can get anything out.
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:33:09
In reply to Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by FindingMyDesire on December 3, 2008, at 0:35:11
I really enjoyed reading everyone's response and appreciate it. I do feel a little less alone. I talk to my T all day it seems - any time my mind gets off focus from what's in front of me. I even try to steal moments and stare off into space to converse. I guess I'm internalizing her. I'm struggling though. We do fight a lot in my head. So, what - I'm resisting my own growth? That's funny.
It was neat to see the ways in which people are similar or different to their approaches to these head conversations. Thanks again! - FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:33:55
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by workinprogress on December 3, 2008, at 0:58:50
Workinprogress - thanks for sharing an example of how you have internalized your T. That's so cool that you even brought it to her!
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:35:10
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by Suedehead on December 3, 2008, at 8:45:38
Suedehead - I like what you said about staying engaged, even in an imaginary sense to "maintain some measure of continuity in our work together". That makes a lot of sense to me. Sometimes I have trouble remembering what I have told my T in reality vs. in my head. I can get frustrated with that. But I think when I talked to her about it she was trying to tell me what you just said. Like, in a way, it was all the same work so it doesn't matter.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:35:51
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by LadyBug on December 3, 2008, at 11:15:53
LadyBug - "My mind didn't know the difference between real conversations and ones I had in my head." is really interesting. Someone told me once that our psyche can't tell the difference between fantasy and reality. Made me want to stop watching scary movies for awhile. I'm not sure that's really true, but what you said made me think of it.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:36:38
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head? » FindingMyDesire, posted by sassyfrancesca on December 3, 2008, at 14:26:23
sassyfrancesca,
That's cool that you mentioned talking to him while driving. That's when I not only talk to her, but I do it out loud! Yup - I have 2-way conversations right out loud. I love going for drives...FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:37:23
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head? » FindingMyDesire, posted by TherapyGirl on December 3, 2008, at 17:13:56
TherapyGirl - It's interesting what you said about being able to control the relationship with your T by having it in your head at first. *deep sigh* That's what she told me was one reason for the embarrassingly intense sexual fantasies that I have for her. I get to have a sense of control. I had rejected her suggestion at the time... Hmm...
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:38:21
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by wishingstar on December 3, 2008, at 20:31:47
wishingstar - Thanks for writing. I get the "lessons" idea but I wish it wasn't so mysterious. I want to totally understand it all so I can do it all perfectly and correctly. I just want to learn what I'm supposed to, when she thinks I should, and then move on... right? Isn't that the goal? Just Kidding...
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:40:22
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by no_rose_garden on December 3, 2008, at 20:49:03
no_rose_garden -
"I think for me it's putting the voices in my head that I need to have for myself...telling myself that I'm not a worthless and that I'll be ok."
That's very moving to read for some reason. It's funny, I have started trying to say to myself that "I'm not pathetic" after I asked my T if she thought I was. She said no, no, not at all, of course. But since then I have been saying that to myself. And as I read your beautiful statement here it makes me think of one thing. Might be better for my psyche to say something in the positive, like "I'm OK." Or, "My feelings are important." instead of using a "not" statement.
I don't know whether you actually say to yourself, "I'm not worthless" but my eyes first read it as "I'm worthless". -That's my own projection I"m sure. ;-) If you do say it that way, what do you think of saying, "I'm worth something!" Or "I'm fabulous!" Just a thought.
FMD
Posted by FindingMyDesire on December 5, 2008, at 0:41:55
In reply to Re: Relationship with your T in your head?, posted by onceupon on December 3, 2008, at 22:43:21
onceupon - I'm sure you have a great imagination! :-)
I spend a great majority of my internal conversations with my T on the subject of my feelings towards her - whatever they are at the moment. Much more than in person. I totally get the "It always seems to take me so damned long to warm up (IRL) before I can get anything out". I tend to tell her about really important dreams with about 3 minutes left. She has finally started teasing me about it. She looks at the clock after I have read a doozy to her and then says in a pretend voice of disappointment, "why do you wait until the end for the dreams?" I want to say, "because in my head I have already spent over an hour talking with you about it..."
FMD
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