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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
With my first T, I wanted to know everything, the 2nd I told him I didn't want to know anything, but he still disclosed a lot anyway.
My woman T (who's name is Crystal,isn't that cool?) is holding strong boundries with me, I only know limited stuff from her website. She asked me today how I felt about that, and I said very good. She told me today that I am a very intelligent, very perceptive and a very intuitive person. It is weird hearing that, it certainly isn't something I have grown up with. She said my intuitiveness is a curse and a blessing. But she believes in intuition. I truly believe it was kept me alive as a child, my old T said that I used my intelligence to help myself from getting into more trouble with my mom's jealously. I did stuff like make my grades appear worse on my report card than they really were, I hid my solo medals from band, I did everything to make myself seem less of a person that to her, so she would not beat me. The jealousy even continued into adulthood. She even fell in love with my husband and tried to dress like me so she could attract him when I was in my business suits, high heals, hair and nails, etc. for work.
Well today I told her how my termination went with T 2 (old man). I told him that I respect the good work he does. He said really needed to hear that today of all days because he was having a really hard time. He has a client in the hospital who he visits every morning instead of doing his workout. Plus the hospital was giving him grief for something about him caring too much about his client.
When I told lady T this, she said wow, he told you all that. I said yes, we have a very open relationship. She said it is almost like I am taking care of him instead of him taking care of me because I told him he needed to take care of himself first, so he can help others better. She said that she knows I had a good relationship with him, and he wasn't abusive like my 1st T, but he was also disclosing too much.
I do agree because I know how hard he suffers seeing patients in pain, and i didn't want to do that with him because I am worried about his health, etc. But I told her I didn't regret what he did because what I learned was so valuable in personal and professional life.
And you notice I say patients now? Well I feel we are seeing T's for mental health and in a way they are healing us just like a regular doctor would. So to me now saying I am a patient makes more sense, it puts the relationship in better perspective. Mental health isn't like seeing a lawyer, our insurance doesn't cover lawyer fee's, so to me mental health = physical health in the aspect of them helping us heal.
Lady T is also dealing with my women issues, she is actually a feminist she says. Well I said that I feel different than most women. I hate to shop for clothes and shoes. I would rather go to a plant store any day or antiques. I have never been a girly girl. I asked her if my perception of women being more emotional and catty was a mis perspective formed my by childhood. She said no, actually women are like that, almost like they are in competition with each other. She said not all women are, but a lot do have those traits.
She asked me how I got along with teachers growing up, well I was always the class pet, they always seemed to be caring towards me. Maybe because I was the smallest kid? I don't know. But I feel my grand ma and my teachers saved me from being a child who was totally unloved and cared for.
So I guess that therapy is so different, she asks a lot of questions. Only ends the session with a few thoughts about what we talked about. I am very open with her, and she is going to continue to ask me how our relationship is going for me. I told her I am almost too open sometimes, but I would tell her if she asked. I said if she was being PMSy, I would ask her, what you on the rag or something. It was just a joke, she laughed, but said she probably wouldn't tell me. I said good!
Posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2008, at 23:43:37
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
Sounds like you have a really good one this time which is great. Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on October 17, 2008, at 7:22:24
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
I agree that too much disclosure is a bad thing. The focus of the therapy should be on the patient. Especially at first, and the first phase of therapy can last a while.
I think of myself as a patient as well. Of course my therapist is an MD so that isn't too hard to do and I view my therapy as clinically necessary. I call him Dr. XXXXXX. I will admit though after all these years his first name has become DrXXXXXX.
In all written correspondence he also refers to me as Dr. XXXXXX. It's a nice respectful touch. In session he refers to me by my first name.
It sounds as though you've got a good therapist now who is willing to play by the rules.
Take care.
Seldom.
Posted by muffled on October 17, 2008, at 12:51:39
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
Interestingly, my first T has generally looser boundaries. It is how she practices. And for the work she mostly does, and the nature of her practice, it works well for her.
I feel extreemly fortunate that I stumbled upon her, as she was just what I needed to PRY me out of where I was hiding. She worked SO hard to meet me at where I was at.
I think with a strong boundaried T I would NEVER have emerged. NEVER.
However, once I was able to speak, and I was able to gain some knowledge as to what was happening with me, then the looser boundaries because a problem. That problem MAY have been surmountable, I don't know, but the greater problem was my T did not have much understanding/training in trauma/dissociation. So it was time to move on to another T for the next phase of therapy.
Yes, the boundary issues did cause some problems at times, but we talked thru them and worked it out, and learned from it.
So, sometimes, boundary pushing is OK, it just has to be thot thru first, and in the end, you may have to pay for it by needing to switch T's. And thats OK.
For me it was worth it.
Everybodies therapy is different.
I think like lemonaide said, with her old T, he probably did disclose too much, but he did also help her, and she learned from him, but then it was time to move on.
I think you are a very wise woman Lemonaid.
And your sure right about 'mental' health just being 'health'. Its a slow slow process it seems to get mental health problems out of the closet. To have less stigma associated with it.
Nice post Lemon. I think this new T of yours may be a keeper.
Hope you touch base here from time to time and let us know how its going.
I told my new T that I want strong boundaries. She's let a coupla things slip, but mostly I know nothing and that's fine by me :-)
Good to see you here.
Muffled
Posted by lemonaide on October 17, 2008, at 21:46:18
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing » lemonaide, posted by Phillipa on October 16, 2008, at 23:43:37
So far, it seems like she is good. But she said she knows I am just waiting for herself to drop the other foot. So she really being patient with me learning to trust her. SHe said it makes it even harder because of what happened with my first T, then trust issues with women.
But I have hope.
Posted by lemonaide on October 17, 2008, at 21:50:10
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing » lemonaide, posted by seldomseen on October 17, 2008, at 7:22:24
Yes I think I have a good T who well at least play by the rules. She said we are doing this together as a team, but the focus will be on me. Kinda makes me go "yikes" a little. lol
I am glad I have changes from being a client to a patient. For me it puts so much reality to the situation of the relationship.
Posted by lemonaide on October 17, 2008, at 21:58:36
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by muffled on October 17, 2008, at 12:51:39
Wow Muffy,
Maybe it was true for me too, I know my old man T said that maybe some of the boundary crossings with my first T was because he needed to do it to foster some trust with me.
Now I have the boundaries and I feel safer I think.I don't wasn't to worry about my T and how she is going to handle me. I know I am a challenge because I am so engaged with them.
I am not too sure I am exactly wise, that is still funny for me to hear, I am just a survivor doing my best to recover.
Do you ever contact your first T to tell her how you are doing? I am glad you found a T who can help you, I have noticed a big difference in your postings. (even though you are not here enough, lol) I still miss our venting on chat! lol
I am glad I know you muffy.
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2008, at 10:52:42
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
I think it depends a lot on context. Yes, "too much" disclosure is always a bad thing. But what is "too much" can vary.
I know a lot of times it's useful for me for my therapist to share something from his own life. I might say "Have you ever done/felt/experienced this?" If he thinks it's a useful question to answer, he will give me an example, hopefully one pruned and tailored to be useful to me.
Or I'll ask him how he feels about something. He usually refuses to answer that one until I tell him how *I* feel about it, which annoys me no end when I'm trying to get his actual reaction to something I've said. I think his point might be that it matters more what I think than what he thinks.
Or in our particular therapy, and I suppose with clients like me, he knows that I pick up on his emotions and generally assume that they have something to do with me. So if I feel that he's tired or upset or angry or sad or scared, I'll assume it has something to do with me. If he refuses to say anything at all, I'll just get more and more frantic.
Of course there are ways and ways to do that. I remember once, in the first five years of therapy, he made a preemptive strike, before I even realized he was upset, and told me why he was upset and my silent reaction was "Why did you tell me that? What am I supposed to do about it?" I understand his reasoning, but in that case it was poorly executed. Ideally he'd wait for me to notice something and ask if he was upset with me, or something of the sort, and then give a very brief response. Something like
"I know I'm not myself today and I'm really sorry. I want to be here fully for all my clients every session, but there are sessions when I'm not as present as I'd like to be. Something is going on in my life that's upsetting me. It has nothing to do with how I feel about you. It won't have an impact on our relationship. It won't affect my therapy practice. Everything is going to be ok, and I'm sorry for not being as present as I'd like to be. I'm going to try to focus fully on the here and now, and if I am not here as fully as you deserve me to be, please bring my attention to it."
Which really doesn't disclose all that much that isn't the client's immediate interest.
My therapist has never quite got the hang of that, and I have to ask him leading questions to get him to address the relevant facts. (Therapy won't be disrupted, except for my distraction. I'm not angry with you. I'll be ok. Everything will be ok.)
I really like what Yalom has written on the topic, although I suppose that some might say he overdiscloses.
Posted by Dinah on October 18, 2008, at 10:55:04
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing » lemonaide, posted by Dinah on October 18, 2008, at 10:52:42
hmmm... leading questions might be too delicate a term.
I'll ask him "Are you mad at me?" "How is this going to affect meeeeee?" "Are you going to be ok?" "Is everything going to be ok?"
Posted by lemonaide on October 18, 2008, at 13:10:57
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by Dinah on October 18, 2008, at 10:55:04
Maybe what I should have said certain types of disclosure, even a little bit of it, is not a good thing.
Like knowing my T and his wife don't have oral sex, I am not sure if knowing this is helpful in any context. Knowing about my T's relationship with his wife, like her ignoring him sometimes, is wrong. Telling me one night stand are fun, stuff like this. OR telling me he bought a vagina sucker and very suggestively saying he ate it looking at me. (probably due to his fantasies of wanting it)
So some disclosure can be helpful, I am sure some has helped me from both T's, but either I got too much or inappropriate disclosure.
But what is cool about no disclosure or very little is that the world revolves around yourself for just 50 min a week. How cool is that? I think with both my guy T's, they like to talk about themselves, just like most people.
That is my little secret about social functions, most people do like to talk about themselves, so if you can open up a conversation and ask them questions about them, they will go on and on. You get practice with social graces, without having to put your foot in your mouth so much. I have never met anyone who I couldn't get to talk. I am a lot less conscious of talking in social groups now, in fact I have become gregarious, most would never guess I was so shy I wanted to hide from others.
Posted by rskontos on October 18, 2008, at 16:54:19
In reply to Re: Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 18, 2008, at 13:10:57
Lemonaide
I agree about disclosure. I know very little about my T. I am glad. I would have to be responsible for him to know more. To see he as more than a T would add to much for me. I only recently found out that he had therapy and thinks all t's need to have it to be good t's. But he did not volunteer this information. He rarely does I have to ask. If I ask he answers. I think I set most of the boundaries. No touching, no hugs, no real talking about what he thinks about me but sometimes he does this anyway and I am surprised. THis usually works unless again I go in and say I can't get past...........and then he will take the lead and get the conversation flowing to help me see whatever he thinks I need. I do know his wife is his soul mate only because I said I did not think I believed in them and I asked him if he did and he said yes. I then said is your wife your soulmate and he said yes, I said oh. then conversation ended.
I try to stay in therapy in the intellectual zone. I hate getting emotional or emo as my children say. He respects that. It works except if I do get emotional. Then and only then do I question his ways. Funny isn't it how we go back and forth.
If a T ever said to me what your did about a vagina sucker I might punch him or just stare and get up and leave. AND never come back!!!!!! Sex talk would send me running or even hints.
I am so sorry you got such a prick for a t the first time around. Can I say prick. Well if not I am sorry for bad language but he was and we should call like we see it.
Glad you found a new T that is a keeper.
rsk
Posted by Morgan79 on October 19, 2008, at 0:28:54
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
From my experience in therapy and my training, I think it depends on the theraputic relationship. When a therapist is first learning about a client, I would say no, but it depends on the needs of the client. I think some of us do need disclosure because it shows us that the therapist cares and is empathatic. They think of us as a real individual. I do think there is a fine line due to transference and countertransference in therapy. NOW that is something I will put in a seperate post soon!!
~Morgan
Posted by happyflower on October 19, 2008, at 20:45:20
In reply to Too much disclosure is not a good thing, posted by lemonaide on October 16, 2008, at 20:44:47
He told me his wife took care of his kids while he was working long hours. His one thing he did, was to put them to bed. He just to wind up this old music machine that played "you are my sunshine" while singing it to his son. I thought that was so wonderful to hear. I wonder what it would be like to have something like that every night.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 9:08:51
In reply to A good disclosure from old man T, posted by happyflower on October 19, 2008, at 20:45:20
:)
That is a nice disclosure.
You're right about some of the disclosures from your first therapist. There are some things that it would be hard to imagine as appropriate between therapist and client. I certainly don't want to know what sex acts my therapist engages in. In fact he's well aware that I'd rather see him as a eunuch or Barbie doll, or mother. If he even started down that path, I'd stick my fingers in my ears, yell NO!!!, and when I was calm enough I'd verbally box his ears.
I *know* he wouldn't make *that* mistake with me. But I suppose there have been things through the years that I probably didn't need to know. But nothing that was sexually suggestive.
Posted by happyflower on October 20, 2008, at 10:18:17
In reply to Re: A good disclosure from old man T » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 9:08:51
Another neat thing I forgot to add was that now his son is doing it for his kids too. My old T was such a kind person.
Posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 10:22:38
In reply to Re: A good disclosure from old man T » Dinah, posted by happyflower on October 20, 2008, at 10:18:17
I'm so glad you had him in your life when you needed him.
I'd love to hear stories about him anytime. It's an important part of grieving someone you care about.
Posted by happyflower on October 20, 2008, at 10:50:59
In reply to Re: A good disclosure from old man T » happyflower, posted by Dinah on October 20, 2008, at 10:22:38
I asked him in my last session about the mentor relationship and he told me since I am not done with therapy that we should probably wait at least a year for that, but he would be glad to hear from me from time to time.
He told me that fact I told him why I was terminating took guts, most people just stop coming or do it over the phone, and he said that just shows how much of a special person he thinks I am.
I told him (I as a "writer") wanted to write a poem or a special letter for him to put in his box where he keeps them, but I couldn't come up with the words. He told me he didn't need to have a letter from me because what I told him will be (he motioned to his heart)something he won't ever forget.
At the very end he stood up and said he wanted to hug me but he was sick with a cold and I said that I didn't care, and hugged him anyway.
This is the end of the thread.
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