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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
I waited for about 2 weeks and figured I wouldn't hear back from her after I sent her my letter the end of June. I saw the mail and almost passed out. As I opened it I saw something that looked like a legal document so I got really nervous. I owe her some money so I thought maybe she was sending me a collection notice or something. I was looking through the paper at the print.
I opened it and saw her letter head on it. I knew she meant business then and not just writing me as my kind and caring T. She started out by saying thank you for my letter of such and such a date. She said she had talked to her office manager about my bill and she has re billed my primary insurance and my secondary insurance companies and was trying to get it straightened out. The office girl had billed my insurance for 2 dates I never had appointments for back in March. I called and left her a message about it then and she did nothing. I called again in May, still nothing.
In my letter I sent to her a few weeks ago, I sent copies of the EOB's for my insurance showing she had billed them for 2 appointments I never had. My T told me it should be resolved in one more billing cycle and that she felt comfortable waiting until then and then accept whatever payment I can make.
Then she tells me this, "At our last visit in May you were reluctant to schedule another appointment until your insurance starts again in September. I will wait if and when you want to schedule an appointment but I will be gone this week, this week and this week. And you need to know I am retiring from my clinical practice at the end of the year and the last day I can see patient's is Dec. __." She signed it sincerely, ******
What a butt she is.
On Sat I had such a hard day. We moved my husbands furniture into my basement. We have been separated for 10 months and I plan to file for a divorce as soon as I can come up with the filing fee etc. He's such a gem, he's in jail and has been since April. So his sister asked if she could get us to move his things out of the place he'd been living in and put in out basement since we have some room for it. I said yes. He will probably be in jail for a while, oh well.
Later my daughter got home from work and told me someone had come into her work that we knew from a former neighborhood. She was so nice to me and came to my house a few times when my husband was in trouble and hadn't come home. She came over to talk to me late at night because I was so freaked out with worry about him etc. She even came one morning and took my kids to McDonald's because about 3 cop cars were at my house looking for my husband.........long story and long ago. Anyway, hearing about her triggered the worst memories I have of my husband's behavior from about 11 years ago. It was the beginning of the end for our marriage.Between moving his furniture, hearing about this friend and bringing up the past memories of pain and getting the letter from my T all in one day caused me to have a major meltdown. I felt so alone, I miss my parents especially my Mom. She was my best friend. And I miss my grandson even though I get to see him about once a month. I got to see him last week for about 30 min. He's so cute I want to eat him!! He's adorable. I hope I always have him in my life and that his parents will never take that right away from my daughter. She has seen him a lot more than I have and I'm ok with that. I love him with all my heart. He is 4 months old now. My heart aches for him. And in a crazy way, I miss my husband. I can't even talk to him. I've visited him a few times but it's by video. Oh man, I cry to think of all the loss.
I'm still thinking about what to do concerning my T. I have a bit of time to decide what to do. I really believe as hard as it may be to go see her after all the crap she put me through on top of all that has happened to me, I need to go see her. When and how many times is my next decision. Her retirement does give me a bit of in site into how she treated me, like she didn't care, she was going to be done with me either way.
I want to send her a letter back with my letter head on it..........just to be dumb. I can't do it though because it doesn't relate to my work! I don't want to leave her a voice mail just yet. I may wait until Sept. and then contact her to schedule something. I'm thinking about seeing her 3 times in a row and then calling it goodbye, or should I say BAD-Bye is more like it. I have so much to think about with this. If I don't go and get some closure, I'll have to figure it out on my own and it will bug me the rest of my life. I don't want that. I want a good ending but after she hurt me like she did I'm so afraid to go out of fear she will hurt me more. ;o(Just thought I'd update you all.
Thanks to all of you who read this and are familiar with all the crap I've been through the past several months.
Thanks to my BABBLE T's!!!LadyBug
Posted by Phillipa on July 14, 2008, at 13:58:48
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Oh wow LadyBug I may be new to this board but know a lot of the history that is horrible and seriously don't know how you're doing it you must be one strong person. And I salute you. Others that know you better will be better able to advise you on the seeing your T issue. So sorry it must hurt so bad and still you can work. Love and hugs Phillipa
Posted by sassyfrancesca on July 14, 2008, at 14:56:41
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Oh, sweetie: I am so sorry you have all of that going on. Even though I divorced the narcissistic, abuser 3 years ago; I sometimes miss him. I get THAT lonely.
ick.
I am thinking of you; I know about wanting to "eat" your grandchild....I have 4!
Love and hugs, Sassy
Posted by raisinb on July 14, 2008, at 14:57:45
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Ladybug, I'm so sorry. That was a crappy letter. It must have been difficult to learn about her retirement if you had some hopes of working things out with her (and why didn't she tell you before this? in my experience major changes like this should be told to the client as soon as the T knows. I wonder if it was a sudden decision? If so, maybe she is going through something personally, which also fits to her out-of-character and inappropriate reaction to the adoption).
Anyway, FWIW, here is what I would do: I wouldn't go back. I'd find another T ASAP to help me work through the hurt attending the ending with this T. There is a lot to be processed here, and even if she were objective (which doesn't seem like the case), your current T wouldn't have time to do it with you before December. Once you have processed everything you will be able to salvage all the good in that relationship--sounds like there was so much--and take it with you.
But you know, if you can't leave it hanging, you can't, and nothing is going to change your feelings about that.
And of course I'm being kind of hypocritical here. Many people have urged me to leave my therapist. And I keep going back. It's impossible to know from the outside what that connection is, and what it means to you. This was such an important relationship in your life. If it demands more sessions, you can't argue with that need.
Posted by Dinah on July 14, 2008, at 16:20:40
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
I think it does explain a lot to me, but maybe not in the same way it explains itself to you.
Given your previous relationship, I'm thinking that her retirement is due to something going on in her own life, something that affected her ability to be the same therapist to you that she has been in the past. And part of her saying maybe she'd been too sympathetic is her worrying about what will happen to you when she's gone. Letting a client rely on you when you expect to be there is one thing, but I imagine therapists with clients who rely on them have some second thoughts when they think of leaving those clients without support.
Naturally, the proper course of action is not to peck the client out of the nest, or covertly drive them away. And maybe she doesn't think of it that way at all. But that doesn't mean she wasn't doing that on a subconscious level.
Unfortunately therapists are only human, and they're more human when they are facing their own stuff. (As I well know.)
If you think she's capable of being reflective on all of this, including her role, it might indeed be worth giving this relationship the closing it deserves after so much caring on what I'm sure is both sides - even if she's being too self protective right now to acknowledge that.
But if you think she's not up to the task, it might be better to do as Raisin suggests.
Strange. We all recognized that something had to be going on in her own life to make her so different with you. And now we see it has. How much better it would have been if she had just been transparent on this topic, and shared a bit of what she was going through and how it might be having an impact on your relationship. And let you two grieve together. Instead of keeping up the pretense of a blank slate, while ignoring the fact that you were also being carried along on the current that was changing her life.
Posted by Looney Tunes on July 14, 2008, at 19:49:52
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Hi Ladybug,
I don't know all your history with your T, but I think you took a giant leap to leave, if you felt she was doing more harm than good. Sometimes it is hard to tell, but TRUST your gut.
I know it is hard. I left my T about the same time you did and I am still upset. But I know it was the best. Today, I picked up the phone and started looking for new Ts.
Have you started looking for a new T? Maybe new T can help you with your on-going problems and getting over your old T.
Hang in there and sorry about the nasty note. I don't know what is worse...never getting a note or getting a nasty one.
Best,
LT
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 21:39:34
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by Phillipa on July 14, 2008, at 13:58:48
Thanks for the love and hugs phillipa. I need that right now. I'm not sure what my next step will be. My belief in therapy right now is kinda negative. I've been with my same T for over 11 years. I never dreamed my therapy would go like this, I'm still in shock.
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 21:48:06
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by sassyfrancesca on July 14, 2008, at 14:56:41
Sassy, I agree how lonely we can be even though we suffered so much in the marriage. And I've leaned on my T for over 11 years only to have it end like this. It hurts like hell.
I won't eat my grandson, he's just so darn cute! He's always smiling so it makes me feel good to know he's happy. He's adopted you know. My daughter placed him for adoption because of her young age. Hard thing to go through but the best thing for him. I'm glad I get to see him.
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 21:52:05
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by raisinb on July 14, 2008, at 14:57:45
raisinb
I know what you mean about people telling you to leave but somehow you can't bring yourself to do it. I miss her. I don't think very much of the therapy process right now so going to a NEW T is out of my mind at the moment. No way, this has been too painful for me. I don't want to start over again and go through everything with someone new. I can't imagine anyone taking her place either. I do think it might be a good idea as you said to go to someone and work through what happened to me and my T. But I'm chicken!
Thanks for the reply and support! I appreciate it right now because I have no one in my real life to talk to about what has happened.
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 22:15:02
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by Dinah on July 14, 2008, at 16:20:40
Dinah
You are so right about something must be going on in her life for her to make this decision.Here is what I believe. A long time ago, she said she was going to work until she turned 73. Well that's in several years! A year ago she told me her husband wanted her to cut down to 3 days a week so she did. I know he owned his own business and I believe that he sold it and made a butt load of money. The reason I think that is because she has been on SEVERAL trips out of the country for 3 week time periods and takes several week long trips as well. Loves to travel and now has the money to do it. She has started dressing pretty nice with a lot of cute accessories to go with her outfits. I also know her youngest child is getting married so she won't have anyone left at home to have to worry about.
She also mentioned that she wanted to be able to tend her grand kids so her daughter's could continue to work. They have wonderful jobs and wouldn't be very smart to give up because of all the education they have etc. I know one of her daughter's is an attorney and is having a baby and will be on maternity leave for 2 months before she goes back to work. That would be my guess at the date in December she has chosen as her retirement date. I think she may be going to tend the baby. But this is just my speculation.
Maybe she's known for awhile what her plans were and that is why she didn't want me to depend on her so much knowing she wouldn't be there for me much longer. I know you have a valid point there. She wants me to stand on my own so when she's gone I can do it. Well, not by choice, but I'm doing it without her now. I miss her, I miss having someone to share my struggles with. I've been overwhelmed the past year. It's been the hardest year of my entire life.
I don't want to see another T. Would you if you couldn't see your T any longer? I don't have very good feelings about therapy right now. No one can take her place and I can't even imagine trying again. Not now anyway. So that option is out. I thought about writing her a letter, only it would be just to sort out my own thoughts and feelings, I wouldn't send it.I appreciate your reply as I've said before, I have no one in my real life to share any of this with. Especially no one that understands.
My meltdown on Saturday night was because I've suffered so much loss in such a short time of the very ones I love. It's so painful at times. I know once I get some time behind me, things will seem brighter. I HOPE anyway!!!
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 22:22:53
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by Looney Tunes on July 14, 2008, at 19:49:52
LT
Leaving was my choice and yes she hurt me so much at a time when I was struggling so much and it was the last straw for me. I don't want to find another T. My choice is to either go see her for a few final visits for some closure and then stand on my own. I should be able to do that after working with her for over 11 years. No one else can teach me what I don't already know. I don't want to go through it again.
Her letter was a kick in my face. Nothing personal like she would have been before. I need to know if she's totally frustrated with me and hates me like I think she does. Part of me wants her to love me like I know she did. She told me she loved me lots of times. I believe we loved each other and had a really strong connection for years. She was sooo good to me over the years and I put her through every test you could imagine. But her cruelty hit me in the head and severed that connection. She said, it was just being tested. In my eyes, it was severed...........
Ladybug
Posted by Dinah on July 14, 2008, at 22:53:18
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » Dinah, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 22:15:02
You have received a lot of loss at once. Any one of the losses would have been more than enough.
(((Ladybug)))
I guess under the circumstances I'd be flooded with two insistent impulses, in complete contradiction to each other.
Part of me would want to treat it the same way I would if someone were dying. I'd want to meet, and reconcile, and pay fitting tribute to the good times as well as expressing regret and pain for the bad. And I'd like to do that in as nonangry way as possible.
But I think a bigger part of me would want to hate him forever and ever and ever for leaving me. I might make an exception if he sobbed or something to show that leaving was wrenching for him as well, but otherwise I'd want to get as far away from him as possible, never talk to him again, and if I did to make it as unpleasant as I could for him. And those would be the healthier of the latter set of impulses.
Or maybe I wouldn't. When I thought he was gone forever, I merely sobbed great wrenching coughing sobs until I thought I'd throw up, and even let him put his arm around my shoulders and make soothing sounds. Even though I cynically suspected it was just to try to keep me from throwing up on his carpet.
I dunno. I guess it's client's call. There is no good or bad choice. Just what is least hurtful or most satisfying for you.
This is probably not politically correct to say, but my therapist and I have talked over the years. And if she's anything like my therapist, she might be feeling pretty hurt herself right now. And some of her stiffness might be coming from her own hurt and feelings of abandonment, and resulting anger. I know that if they detect those feelings in themselves, they're supposed to put them aside to act totally therapist-like. But she's known you for eleven years. She's felt love for you. Those loving feelings didn't come from a "therapist". They come from the real, feeling, and imperfect person that she is. From X, the therapist, not from Therapist X.
I'm not trying to excuse her. But I hope when you look back on this, you can remember that love, and not think that the way it ended negated the years of caring.
Posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:21:00
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » Dinah, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 22:15:02
Sometimes getting more pieces to the puzzle helps with the understanding but not really the hurt. But I agree with Dinah about the bad times not negating the good ones. And I like what she said about thinking about this as an oncoming death - what would you like to say and hold on to?
The therapy relationship is such a complicated one. All those feelings are real, and they survive over weeks and months and days...but they can't survive outside in the real world. I guess this is that internalizing your therapist piece, so we can hold onto their caring, out here, in the real world.
Whatever you decide to do, I know it will be painful. I wish life wasn't so hard - it is your turn for good things.
Posted by muffled on July 15, 2008, at 0:39:26
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » Looney Tunes, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 22:22:53
I greatly respect your strengh and will.
I am glad you are doing Ok, you sure have had some HARD times.
Best wishes to you.
M
Posted by frida on July 15, 2008, at 11:49:34
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Dear Ladybug,
I was moved to tears reading your post. Such pain.
I'd be so devastated if my T of 9/10 years made me feel this, when she was the one who was supposed to help me through it all and not hurt me...
I agree with what Dinah has said...there must be something in her life that made her react the way she did, and take this decision.
I know this is all very, very painful..but I think I'd go to see her. Sometimes letters can sound cold, and maybe seeing you can make her heart melt too and remember all that you two went through...all the caring between you.
I would probably go because otherwise I'd wonder all my life...You've been through so much and I am so sorry this is happening. I hope with all my heart that you can meet and have a healing, close session..in honour of everything you went through together in so many years...
I wish you could feel her caring and work this through with her...
I am sorry.sending you lots of hugs,
Frida
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:29:09
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by Dinah on July 14, 2008, at 22:53:18
I've wondered if she is hurt as well. I think I know her enough to know she is to some degree. I told her in my letter that she hurt me even though she might not have meant too, she did.
I want to believe she still cares about me. The only way to find out is to go see her otherwise I can only guess for the rest of my life. It's too strong of a connection to ignore. I can't do it. I had an amazing dream about her last night. She had set up an appointment to see me and I was to meet her near her office at a certain time. When I saw her she gave me a hug and then proceeded to take me towards her office. She brought her husband with her but he had dropped her off and left her to see me. We were trying to get to her office and we kept running into different snags. The elevator was broken, her office was in a different place and I couldn't find it. Anyway, I never did get to sit in her office and have a talk, we kept getting interrupted. I remember her hugging me and holding on to my hand like she really cared about me. I woke up before I had finished the dream. I realized just how important she is to me. Why is this happening to me? I can't believe it.
I did write her a pretty amazing letter last night, now I need to see how I feel about actually sending it. I feel like I haven't got anything to lose at this point. The damage has been done.
Ladybug
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:37:04
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by Daisym on July 14, 2008, at 23:21:00
I agree Daisy, no matter what happens at this point it will be painful. It is like a death, and so I've experienced it with many important people in my life just in the last 4 months. Starting with my grandson's adoption, a month later my husband whom I'm separated from went to jail, then the issue and separation came between my T and I. Both of my parents have server dementia and they are more or less "gone". My Mom stopped talking pretty much over the past few weeks. It's a lot of loss for me and I wonder how I'll ever feel again when all this passes.
I do miss my T. She was amazing and was so good to me over all the years. I need some understanding and the only way to get it is to go see her. I'm still thinking about what I want to do....
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:39:16
In reply to your an amazing woman » LadyBug, posted by muffled on July 15, 2008, at 0:39:26
Thank you muffled. I wish pain didn't hurt so much. I've had no choice but to get through this time in my life. It hurts. I don't know what I'd do without the support I've gotten here. I only hope I can give some support sometime when someone needs it as much as I have.
LadyBug
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:42:22
In reply to Re: your an amazing woman, posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:39:16
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:44:43
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:37:04
Above post is for Daisy...........opps.
Posted by LadyBug on July 15, 2008, at 13:51:38
In reply to Re: I got a letter from my T! ;-( » LadyBug, posted by frida on July 15, 2008, at 11:49:34
frida,
Thanks for being so sweet to me. I had a hard time wondering why she turned on me when I was at the hardest time in my entire life. I know that's what therapy is for, someone to lean on. I don't understand what happened.
I'm still thinking about what to do next. I appreciate the support I get here on babble. Thanks for your thoughts. Somehow I'll get through it.
LadyBug
Posted by Lemonaide on July 15, 2008, at 22:18:41
In reply to I got a letter from my T! ;-(, posted by LadyBug on July 14, 2008, at 13:47:57
Wow, Ladybug, I am shocked. Makes me wonder that when your T knew she was retiring, she was afraid of how she felt about you, trying to distance herself from you.
Have you decided yet what you want to do?
HF
This is the end of the thread.
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