Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 818118

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'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insanity'

Posted by Quintal on March 15, 2008, at 14:40:55

Which do you prefer? I quite like the romance associated with the old term. 'The Poet's Illness', 'A Brilliant Madness', 'Touched By Fire' and similar euphanisms seem to show more depth and imagination than the modern clinical ones somehow... I suffered a bout of 'manic depressive insanity', or 'bipolar disorder with acute psychotic features' so severe I was sectioned just recently. I've been trying to write about it for a while, but I never know where to begin. It's like trying to write a review of an epic movie that went on for over two months. Every time I try to describe a scene, the mental health team seem to seize upon it and reduce the entire experience to that particular episode. I keep trying to explain, but I don't think they understand. For example, my social worker has just drawn up a care plan that aims to help prevent me from beleieving I'm being watched by surveilence cameras. That was one particular delusion I experienced for about two days, but it annoyed me to see it form the backbone of my care plan. Why not just say the aim is to prevent me becoming psychotic again? Even as I'm writing this now, I realize I'm not explaining it very well. Any other bipolars who have experienced psychosis find the same problem?

I keep wanting to talk it through with someone who understands. I may make an appointment to see my old counsellor because I feel that is the framework that would be most supportive of my perspective. She was a big fan of R.D. Laing's work on Schizophrenia and psychosis, so I think she'd be on the right wavelength. Then there's the spiritual persepctive. My social worker suggested I attend at retreat at Throssel Hole Buddhist Abbey to deal with that side of things http://www.throssel.org.uk/. She even printed off an application form for me. We're meant to be going up for a visit any time I want, but I haven't felt up to it yet. It completely changed my worldview, like a tornado ran through my life - terrifying yet a wonderful display of nature's power, and I wish I could share that with someone.

Q

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insanity' » Quintal

Posted by Sigismund on March 15, 2008, at 15:10:13

In reply to 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insanity', posted by Quintal on March 15, 2008, at 14:40:55

The current diagnostic categories are really recent. There used to be no treatment apart from APs.

With someone it lasted the best part of a year, he rarely slept and drove us nuts by talking strangely all the time and making all sorts of strange connections. And then it passed and he became a librarian.

Another had a stronger dose of it, felt he was 'on a thousand tabs of acid' (as he put it to me with bright shining eyes), swam the river naked and walked up on someone's lawn talking about God.

And someone else I knew just had what I would call 'pressure of thought', for want of any better description.

There was someone who assured me that the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party had put electrodes in his brain so they could monitor something to do with the CC of the CP of the USSR. He seemed really lucid/sane and quite batty at the same time.

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Sigismund

Posted by Quintal on March 15, 2008, at 16:27:45

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insanity' » Quintal, posted by Sigismund on March 15, 2008, at 15:10:13

>Another had a stronger dose of it, felt he was 'on a thousand tabs of acid' (as he put it to me with bright shining eyes)

I had a nap on the sofa one day and woke up to find this thing talking to me: http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/HPIM1208.jpg
I've had hadn't even noticed it before and I've had that sofa for two years. Is that what acid's like? The thing is I can't help but not see his evil face now, even though I'm not psychotic any more. I may have to buy throws.

I think this is beyond Pollyfilla:
http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p46/Serepham/HPIM1210.jpg
At the time it seemed to form an outline of Darren Osprey's head - a computer technician who came out to sell a distance learning course to me one time. He used to spike his hair into Viking 'horns' and was fairly chubby. It still reminds me of him from the back, sitting typing on his comupter.

>swam the river naked and walked up on someone's lawn talking about God.

Oh yes... I ran naked on my front lawn at six one morning, music blearing, and did a pole-dance on the 'For Sale' board. My next door neighbor happened to be a passer-by on his way to early shift. He still won't meet my eye and I just don't know what to say.

>There was someone who assured me that the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist Party had put electrodes in his brain so they could monitor something to do with the CC of the CP of the USSR.

For me it was the scientologists, Heather Ashton and linkadge. They were tracking me via sattelite using some sort of gamma-ray device that could penetrate walls. The aliens themselves seemed to be on my side though, it was just a matter of getting rid of Heather and linkadge somehow, and then I'd rule the Earth with the aliens as backup if I needed them.

>He seemed really lucid/sane and quite batty at the same time.

Yup. I was so lucid during my assessment interview that the psychistarist had tears in his eyes when I told him how I spoke to my mother. As if for a few moments he wondered if there might be a grain of truth in it. This was confounded when I said I knew I was having a manic episode. Apparently it's quite rare to be completely barking and completely aware of at the same time. If only I could have had an 'off switch' it would be the best entertainment going. I've seen a few people go mad before but it's something else to experience it for one's self. Not really what it looks like from the outside.

Q

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal

Posted by Sigismund on March 15, 2008, at 17:26:51

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Sigismund, posted by Quintal on March 15, 2008, at 16:27:45

None of those people has what I would call 'problems'. By which I mean that they were not fearful or uncertain or down.
I (naturally, as you do) felt they were saner than me. There were other people with 'problems' (whatever they were).

There was one bloke who wouldn't speak and who it was physically painful to be around, for reasons that escaped everyone.

The interesting thing about poing to university in 1970 and hanging around what was known as 'the movement' was that there was no such thing as 'normal'. People came from all over the state to be there and there was a high percentage of bright people with 'mental illness'.

So you don't think you will get on speaking terms with your neighbour?

>They were tracking me via sattelite using some sort of gamma-ray device that could penetrate walls.

That's where the hole in the wall came from?

I know people who take heaps of stimulants eventually feel that the cops are outside and they start taping up the power points to keep the rays out. You must have to take a lot, because it never happened to me.

There is a doctor here who wraps himself in a shield to keep the EMF radiation off himself at night. There really are rays and people out to get you, so I suppose it gets confusing.

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan

Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on March 15, 2008, at 19:31:37

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal, posted by Sigismund on March 15, 2008, at 17:26:51

Q, I'm sorry to hear of your "sectioning" if that's how they call it where you live. Around these parts "sectioning" sounds more like something you do to a grapefruit.

I went out on a date once with a guy in an acute psychotic episode. He insisted that I pick him up. I found him wandering blocks away from his house. muttering. Then he insisted that we rent a particular movie for its piano score. And then he started to tell me about how he had just threatened to kill his mother with a machete (produced the machete) (or is that my imagination). then the ambulance and his parents showed up. Thank GOD I was "babysitting" my little brother who ended up calling the cops while I kept the date distracted (saying a lot of "uh huhs" and "of courses")

His Dx- schizophrenia secondary to traumatic brain injury, though, if you ask me, he was already prodromal before the accident.

I have had psychotic features myself. Mine are terrifying. Asking me to take big knife and disembowel myself and I end up in a big argument, and can see and feel and smell the mess. it's schrecklich.

Ll

who doesn't want to be "sectioned" at least not on this side of the Atlantic

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Sigismund

Posted by Quintal on March 16, 2008, at 17:57:29

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal, posted by Sigismund on March 15, 2008, at 17:26:51

>None of those people has what I would call 'problems'. By which I mean that they were not fearful or uncertain or down.
I (naturally, as you do) felt they were saner than me. There were other people with 'problems' (whatever they were).

Do you think I am a person with problems?

>So you don't think you will get on speaking terms with your neighbour?

We never were on speaking terms as such. He's just the bloke who lives next door. Maybe I'm a pervert, but I get a sort of sexual thrill from him seeing me naked. I don't know why. I think he found it quite funny really.

>That's where the hole in the wall came from?

I battered ahole in it with a curtain pole. I was thhinking it was a certain somebody's face, so I just let rip.

>I know people who take heaps of stimulants eventually feel that the cops are outside and they start taping up the power points to keep the rays out. You must have to take a lot, because it never happened to me.

I think you have to stay awake for days on end, like in a manic episode. Did you never start to hallucinate after a few days without sleep?

>There is a doctor here who wraps himself in a shield to keep the EMF radiation off himself at night. There really are rays and people out to get you, so I suppose it gets confusing.

Yes it does. I have a particular concern over the wireless mouse I just bought. A few minutes after installation I noticed the hairs on my arm raising, as if it were forimg a bridge for an electric current paassing between the mouse and my ipod. I'm not an alarmist but I do wonder what exactly it's doing and wether that can be healthy long-term. I may have to go back to using the wired mouse.

Q

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » LlurpsieNoodle

Posted by Quintal on March 16, 2008, at 18:42:11

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on March 15, 2008, at 19:31:37

You and kk were with me for a few days actually, along with Paris Hilton and certain other celebrities. Most of the time we were in the nude (although I actually *was* in the nude). No sexual activity took place. I 'remember' you recommending the udon noodle dish over the beef satay and hovering over my shoulder as I went to collect it from the takeaway. I don't suppose you remember anything about that? I have a long list of people I need to check with to make sure they weren't actually there. I expect Jesus and the Buddha to be a particular problem.

>I have had psychotic features myself. Mine are terrifying. Asking me to take big knife and disembowel myself and I end up in a big argument, and can see and feel and smell the mess. it's schrecklich.

I have a particular fear of them asking me to chop my 'little man' off. I don't think I would ever do it, but I have heard of such on the internet. Mine usually just speak my thoughts out loud. At times they're so loud I worry that other people can hear them. Night times are worst, especially without sleeping meds. I tend to get demons and succubi loitering around my bed. Makes it difficult to fall off to sleep. I 'know' it's just my imagination, but still... till it actually happends to you. I think you know what I mean.

>who doesn't want to be "sectioned" at least not on this side of the Atlantic

A social worker came round and I wouldn't let her in. I woke from a nap on my sofa to find a pair of policemen, two social workers and a psychiatrist in my living room. There was no choice, I had to go, but still I refused. The police literally dragged me out of the house. I fought like a tiger and still have scars on my hand where they dug their nails in. But hey, it's not every day you get to wrestle with a pair of uniformed coppers in the nude. Something to tell the grand kids.

I was locked on the secure ward and it really is like a prison. Totally dehumanizing. It was a very traumatic experience - you have almost no human rights in there. That's another post in itself though.

Q

 

Ruminations » Quintal

Posted by Sigismund on March 16, 2008, at 21:47:45

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Sigismund, posted by Quintal on March 16, 2008, at 17:57:29

>Do you think I am a person with problems?

Do you have a lot of regrets?
Are you uncertain?
Are you frightened?
(This might be a conversation about how people feel about fear?)

People who have problems are people who think they do.
If you don't think you have them you don't.
Isn't the world nice and simple?

There is only a faint connection (none at all really) between your question and what follows.
Here there is some kind of conspiracy to make sure that every social encounter is entered into with an agreed lie (in which I prefer not to participate).
Anyway, everyone knows how you feel. That's why I never ask.
I blame my response on Lou Reed, who sang
'And it was allriiiiiiight,
It was allriiiiiight'
in such an attractive and sarcastic manner that ever after, when asked
'How are you?'
at the beginning of a social encounter, I reply
'Allright'
which may perhaps amuse me but does not satisfy them.
They ask
'Allright good?'
and I reply
'Allright allright'

When people meet where you are, do they insist that everyone say they feel great?
When my mother was almost completely dead with cancer and seeing the doctor, he would say
'And how are you?'
and she would say
'Fair to middling'.

In a William Burroughs novel, people who smoke pot yell out
'I got the fear'
and run out of the room.

I've wanted to do that for years.

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal

Posted by LlurpsieNoodle on March 17, 2008, at 3:12:22

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on March 16, 2008, at 18:42:11

> You and kk were with me for a few days actually, along with Paris Hilton and certain other celebrities. Most of the time we were in the nude (although I actually *was* in the nude). No sexual activity took place. I 'remember' you recommending the udon noodle dish over the beef satay and hovering over my shoulder as I went to collect it from the takeaway. I don't suppose you remember anything about that?

Rest assured that I was not there. First of all, I don't usually display my birthday suit

. However, your imagination is character-consistent regarding food. I would be the one on psychobabble to recommend the udon dish and accompanying satay. That is accurate with the spirit of my character. Although I have never done so in the past. BTW chicken and pork satay taste better than beef.

buddha wasn't there with you. he's on my shelf eating an orange and drinking water.

> >I have had psychotic features myself. Mine are terrifying. Asking me to take big knife and disembowel myself and I end up in a big argument, and can see and feel and smell the mess. it's schrecklich.

since I've added wellbutrin the dreams and imaginings are more vivid and detailed. They are compelling :( Something to talk about with T. He often says something like "It sounds like you're on a bad acid trip" but we both know that my neurotransmitters were virginal prior to seeing my first pdoc.
>
> I have a particular fear of them asking me to chop my 'little man' off. I don't think I would ever do it, but I have heard of such on the internet. Mine usually just speak my thoughts out loud. At times they're so loud I worry that other people can hear them. Night times are worst, especially without sleeping meds. I tend to get demons and succubi loitering around my bed. Makes it difficult to fall off to sleep. I 'know' it's just my imagination, but still... till it actually happends to you. I think you know what I mean.
>
(((((Quintal)))) I am so sorry for this. I have been having bad dreams lately too. Albeit not about my nonexistent appendage, but still horrifying and vivid. hence me being awake at 3:30 am. To type is to keep one's mind organized, or so I feel. Makes things more linear, at least by my standards.


> >who doesn't want to be "sectioned" at least not on this side of the Atlantic
>
> A social worker came round and I wouldn't let her in. I woke from a nap on my sofa to find a pair of policemen, two social workers and a psychiatrist in my living room. There was no choice, I had to go, but still I refused. The police literally dragged me out of the house. I fought like a tiger and still have scars on my hand where they dug their nails in. But hey, it's not every day you get to wrestle with a pair of uniformed coppers in the nude. Something to tell the grand kids.
>
You have a good sense of humor about this, but ultimately, it sounds like a tragedy that I wouldn't wish upon my worst enemy. I don't have too many worst enemies, so maybe I'm being naive here...


> I was locked on the secure ward and it really is like a prison. Totally dehumanizing. It was a very traumatic experience - you have almost no human rights in there. That's another post in itself though.
>
> Q

please post if you feel it would help. I will read. I've been there myself. Asking everyday... Can I leave now. Can I leave now? NOW? response is a placid smile. No honey the pdocs want you stabilized. So I pretended to "stabilize" haha. little did they know.

((((((((((q)))))))))) I'm awfully generous with the hugs, lemme know if it bothers you. I just feel so sad that you had to be taken to the hospital in these circumstances. :(

-Ll

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal

Posted by Sigismund on March 17, 2008, at 4:09:22

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » LlurpsieNoodle, posted by Quintal on March 16, 2008, at 18:42:11

Sorry about that. I feel I've been insensitive.

I hadn't read that post.

I wasn't really aware of what you've gone through.

I've never had a (real) break with reality, though when I was younger my emotions were stronger and clearer so the bad times were worse.

 

Re: Ruminations » Sigismund

Posted by Quintal on March 18, 2008, at 17:36:31

In reply to Ruminations » Quintal, posted by Sigismund on March 16, 2008, at 21:47:45

>Do you have a lot of regrets?
>Are you uncertain?
>Are you frightened?

Nope.

>Here there is some kind of conspiracy to make sure that every social encounter is entered into with an agreed lie (in which I prefer not to participate).

I notice it too. As if there's a secret password or something I just didn't get somewhere along the line. I'm not much bothered. People seem to spend most of the time talking about nothing anyway. Almost as if it's a prerequisite of talking about nothing. Polite conversation seems to be a dance around 'that-of-which-we-can-not-speak'.

>When people meet where you are, do they insist that everyone say they feel great?

Yes. I think it's pretty much the same everywhere. I'd bet you'll find people in the depths of the Amazon jugnle doing it too.

>When my mother was almost completely dead with cancer and seeing the doctor...

I had a similar problem with pdoc a few weeks ago. He asked how I was and I said okay then proceeded to tell him how terrible I was feeling. When I'd finished he told me off for saying I was okay in the first place. I tend to have that problem with doctors in general. When you walk into the room they always start the conversation by asking "How are you?" and I always feel it would be rude to say "Actually I'm feeling pretty terrible". I did try this once and she looked at me as if I'd just committed a social faux-pas, which it actually is for some reason.

Q

 

Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » LlurpsieNoodle

Posted by Quintal on March 18, 2008, at 18:10:25

In reply to Re: 'Bipolar Disorder' vs. 'Manic Depressive Insan » Quintal, posted by LlurpsieNoodle on March 17, 2008, at 3:12:22

>. However, your imagination is character-consistent regarding food. I would be the one on psychobabble to recommend the udon dish and accompanying satay. That is accurate with the spirit of my character. Although I have never done so in the past. BTW chicken and pork satay taste better than beef.

Most of my delusions were eerily charcater-consistent. Which is why they were so believable I suppose. My doctor appeared to me as a power-mad serial killer and I still have to rely on her for treatment. I will bear the food advice in mind and may order a chicken satay tomorrow night. So far I have only tried beef.

>buddha wasn't there with you. he's on my shelf eating an orange and drinking water.

I was kinda hoping he could be in two places at the same time.

>since I've added wellbutrin the dreams and imaginings are more vivid and detailed. They are compelling :( Something to talk about with T. He often says something like "It sounds like you're on a bad acid trip" but we both know that my neurotransmitters were virginal prior to seeing my first pdoc.

I saw your post below and understand compeltely why you wanted oblivion. Did it myself with 20mg Klonopin/tramadol a few times and passed out. Fortunately benzos are pretty forgiving od-wise. Maybe Zyprexa's a better option, but not as relaxing IMO.

>please post if you feel it would help. I will read. I've been there myself. Asking everyday... Can I leave now. Can I leave now? NOW? response is a placid smile. No honey the pdocs want you stabilized. So I pretended to "stabilize" haha. little did they know.

There was a running theme where I'd ask "When can I go home?" and they'd say they don't know. They didn't know who knew. They didn't know anyone who might know anything about the person who knew. They didn't really care I suppose. People are just warehoused - fed, watered, medicated and 'monitored'. It would be better if they had counsellors or psychologists on the ward, but all you get is a weekly visit from the pdoc where he adjusts your medication. There's no-one to talk to and the nurses walk around all day obsessively locking and unlocking doors like jail wardens. At times I found myself thinking "If I don't get out of here soon I'll go mad", which begged the question of what madness really is and what would happen if I were to 'mad'. Puzzling.

Q


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