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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
I have been continually reminded this week about Dinah's "fighting to relationship." My therapist admitted to being frustrated with me, I was stuck and then hugely upset about frustrating him. He told me I'm with-holding and making him guess at things. I said he was right but not because I was testing him, but because I was protecting him. He said, "from what?" -- Well, me of course. :(
And he pushed it. Tuesday and Wed - "the behavior is a communication, we need to figure out what you want from me." Hello!! I want you to NOT be mad at me.
Finally, today, we had a whole session that wasn't stuck and we weren't going in circles. He'd say it was because I finally stopped self-editing and let him close to me again. OK, so this might be true. (does he always have to be right?) I also think that we clarified a few things -- that he can care and be protective of the adult-me as much as he cares about the younger parts. Which is a huge relief because I've stuck my toe out there in the single world and I'm terrified I'll end up with someone who hurts me, again.
When I expressed this fear, my therapist said, "then you leave him." Really? Just like that? He said yes. I said, "what if I can't?" He said, "I'll help you. And then go shoot him for hurting you." OK then - I'm good with that. But even though we laughed, it felt good to know that all these things I think I'm supposed to know about relationships and sex and risk - I can admit to not really knowing. Because lately I've become so aware of the damage done in this area - maybe too much to ever overcome. It makes me pretty suicidal when I think about how tainted the future is...which is another thing I couldn't tell him until today.
So even though I'm struggling right now, I feel safer and more connected to my therapist. So I wanted to say Thank you, again, Dinah for that long ago post. It still helps me.
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 1:09:44
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
:-)
I'm glad it is helpful to you.
It does seem so very long ago....
Posted by sassyfrancesca on February 1, 2008, at 7:39:25
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
Dearest Daisym: I got a divorce after 31 years of abuse, and have been alone for almost three years; it is excruciating; I am the poster-child for the fear of being alone.
There's really nothing anyone can say or do to help that; just something I have to live with.
I stay with my t for his support (and because, unforuntately, I love him)
My hugs and love, Francesca
P.S. We do what we do to stay out of pain; it is hard sometimes to know what to share.
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 8:05:12
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
And what if he said "I'll help you and then I'll make love to you and you won't hurt any more." How would that be different? I think what he said was inappropriate and should certainly be discussed with a consultant. I think he has lost his objectivity.
>
> When I expressed this fear, my therapist said, "then you leave him." Really? Just like that? He said yes. I said, "what if I can't?" He said, "I'll help you. And then go shoot him for hurting you."
Posted by JoniS on February 1, 2008, at 8:15:39
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
Daisy
I'm sorry you're having difficult time right now. Your post was very tender. I once again must say that I envy you in your T relaitonship. He manages to show how much he cares, yet keeps good boundaries and shows his professionalism. This has been apparent from all your posts I've read in the past (2 ? maybe) years.
I guess I long to know someone cares so much about me and yet keeps the relationship professional.
Best to you Daisy.
Joni
Posted by Fallsfall on February 1, 2008, at 9:09:11
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
I'm glad you were able to let him get closer again. I know it is hard for you every time, but is it getting any easier? Try to remember that it really does feel better when you can let him in.
You are dating!?!?!? Do tell!
Posted by Dinah on February 1, 2008, at 9:48:12
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
I think it's great that you two have a relationship where you can use humor, and understand each other perfectly.
I have a lousy sense of humor. I mostly smile without getting it at all. But even so, there is a fair amount of teasing and humor in my therapeutic relationship - at least by my standards. And it probably works better than anything with me. Although I know my therapist is very careful to tailor the humor to what I can appreciate.
It's good to know he's there behind you as you venture out into very scary waters.
Posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 10:30:47
In reply to therapist offering to shoot people ? » Daisym, posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 8:05:12
Sure, out of context that might sound inappropriate. But the way it was said, the obvious joking quality to it - the long standing history between us - made it the right thing to say. And wow - you made a big leap there - not knowing me, or my therapist that he'd want to have sex with me and that he needs supervision.
And wanting to have sex with your therapist, particularly if you've had painful sexual abuse, is not unusual. There are times that I want him to teach me that it doesn't have to hurt. We talk about these feelings and he is super clear that this will never happen, I'm safe to want and express anything - his job is to hold the line. He has always done so and I trust him completely with that. Sometimes I'm sad and furious about that. Other times I'm relieved.
I don't know what your history with therapy is - or even if you have one - but I suspect you think about it very differently than I do. I'm glad there are many kinds of therapists and therapies, so we can both get what we need.
Posted by sunnydays on February 1, 2008, at 10:42:20
In reply to Fighting to Relationship - Again + thanks, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 0:36:19
I love your T. I was so glad you posted this today, because my T is out because his son is having surgery (relatively minor, so I'm only missing one session) and he wants to be there for him. I have had those stuck sessions. They are so frustrating for both us and our therapists I think. We want them to understand perfectly what to do to get us out of the stuck place, and they want to understand how to do it, but because we're stuck, neither of us feels like it'll ever work!
I'm glad you're feeling closer to your T. My T once told me as I was leaving to go home, "And if you ever want me to call and yell at your parents for you, I'd be glad to!" He was joking, and he gets really afraid I'll take something to seriously, so then he said, "I was just joking, I wouldn't do that. It'll have to be my fantasy." But it was funny, and it just made me feel closer to him that he would want to do something like that for me, even if I knew he'd never do it.
One of the symptoms/criteria/whatever they call it for PTSD is feeling hopeless about the future, Daisy... It doesn't mean your whole future is tainted, it just means that's how your trauma is affecting you. I have that view a lot too. There's a good book called "I Can't Get Over It: A Handbook for Trauma Survivors" by Aphrodite Matsakis that put it better than I put it.
Anyway, I'm glad to see you posting, and I kind of hope (selfishly) that you'll keep posting, because I learn so much from your posts!
sunnydays
Posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:49:53
In reply to Joking... (triggers) » zazenducke, posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 10:30:47
> Sure, out of context that might sound inappropriate. But the way it was said, the obvious joking quality to it - the long standing history between us - made it the right thing to say. And wow - you made a big leap there - not knowing me, or my therapist that he'd want to have sex with me and that he needs supervision.
.....Er no you made a big leap there, I didn't say he'd want to have sex with you! I asked what if he made a joke about that like he made the joke about shooting someone who harmed you in an adult dating situation? How would that be didfferent? Hey if I wanted to make a big leap I would have mentioned that guns are phallic symbols wouldn't I? And he was whipping his out to go after his rival. LOL I think everyone attempting to do long term therapy should be in supervision of some sort.
>
> And wanting to have sex with your therapist, particularly if you've had painful sexual abuse, is not unusual. There are times that I want him to teach me that it doesn't have to hurt. We talk about these feelings and he is super clear that this will never happen, I'm safe to want and express anything - his job is to hold the line. He has always done so and I trust him completely with that. Sometimes I'm sad and furious about that. Other times I'm relieved.
>
> I don't know what your history with therapy is - or even if you have one - but I suspect you think about it very differently than I do. I'm glad there are many kinds of therapists and therapies, so we can both get what we need......No you don't know do you? I hope you do get what you need. Really.
Posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 11:03:51
In reply to Re: Joking... (triggers), posted by zazenducke on February 1, 2008, at 10:49:53
"attempting?" hmmm...
My therapist agrees with you. He has supervision and is also a supervisor.
I like the phallic symbol bit - maybe I'll borrow it from you. I point out lots of freudian things between us. He's more of a Rogerian/Kohut guy but he appreciates the humor.
Can I say this without sounding condescending? I really appreciate your reply, kind of tongue in cheek but not biting or overly mean. It was "smart." Sometimes we get in debates and we can't have these kinds of back and forths because the tone gets hurtful. Thanks for not taking it there and respecting our need for different things.
(I really mean this. I'm not sure how it will sound without inflection though.)
Posted by Phillipa on February 1, 2008, at 12:11:56
In reply to Re: Joking... (triggers), posted by Daisym on February 1, 2008, at 11:03:51
Didn't know what a gun stood for thanks for the education. Phillipa
This is the end of the thread.
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