![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 5 to 29 of 29. Go back in thread:
Posted by muffled on September 11, 2007, at 17:36:59
In reply to I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 12:25:15
Posted by TherapyGirl on September 11, 2007, at 21:14:09
In reply to I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 12:25:15
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 11, 2007, at 22:05:25
In reply to Hi There! » pegasus, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2007, at 16:41:43
Good job, you DESERVE to be proud! I am a little jealous though, I have such a long way to go. But Yay To you !!!!!!!!! Keep it up!
Posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 22:07:05
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by B2chica on September 11, 2007, at 12:30:00
Thanks so much B2! I was feeling almost embarrassed to be so pleased with myself. But you're right. I could just be ok with being proud for a change. It is an accomplishment. Thanks for your support!
peg
Posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 22:08:08
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone » pegasus, posted by annierose on September 11, 2007, at 14:08:33
Posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 22:18:03
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone » pegasus, posted by annierose on September 11, 2007, at 14:08:33
hi annierose,
The therapy break was mostly good, I think. I was so busy that I didn't have much time to dwell on anything. And also, for one of my classes I had to be a client at our counseling lab, so I did have some therapy. The student I had as a counselor was pretty good. But, you know, it's not the same as my regular therapy with my long term T. For one thing, it's taped and viewed by other students in the practicum class, of whom I knew quite few. So, what I was willing to talk about was a bit limited. It was pretty helpful for letting off some steam about a few things, though.
But I had to keep a list of all of the things I wanted to talk about when I came back to real therapy. Otherwise I would have exploded with anxiety. Plus at first I had this conviction that my T was angry at me for taking a break. It still niggles at me a little. That's on the list to talk about. Strangely I didnt' miss her much. That's another thing to talk about . . . maybe. I've always been ambivalent about having a less intense relationship with her than with my previous T.
So, basically, it turned out to be doable, but I'm really glad to be going back. Thanks for asking.
peg
Posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 22:25:43
In reply to Hi There! » pegasus, posted by Dinah on September 11, 2007, at 16:41:43
hi Dinah!
Thanks so much! Yes, I really want to go back to therapy now. For one thing, I've been taking all of these introspective counseling classes, which bring up for me all kinds of issues that I want to work on. I feel so . . . um . . . young in terms of understanding myself.
But you're right that I've been absent (from babble and therapy) in part because I've been doing really well, relatively speaking. I think that's part of what I'm so pleased about; I'm successfully posing as a healthy, engaged, capable, not anxious or depressed person. Ho, ho . . . if they only knew the truth.
peg
Posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 22:26:22
In reply to I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 12:25:15
Posted by pegasus on September 12, 2007, at 20:58:01
In reply to Re: Hi There!, posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 11, 2007, at 22:05:25
Hi Happyflower,
BTW, I'm really glad you wanted to go back to your happy name. I know you've had some big struggles this summer, and I really felt for you.
Thanks for the congrats. You can do it too! I'll look forward to the day that you tell us you've finished your classes!
peg
Posted by Happyflower 1 :-) on September 12, 2007, at 21:01:35
In reply to Re: Hi There! » Happyflower 1 :-), posted by pegasus on September 12, 2007, at 20:58:01
HI back at ya!
Well I hope you plan on being around for a LONG time because it will take forever, but what else do I have to do?
Posted by Daisym on September 15, 2007, at 0:30:13
In reply to I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 12:25:15
Welcome back. You've been missed. How is your wee-one?
When do you start seeing clients? I'm very excited for you - I know what a long haul it has been to finish. Congratulations! And I know you will take all you've learned as a client and apply it to your work too. I think often about you recontacting your old therapist and how much courage that took. You have so many unusual experiences -- nothing should surprise you with clients. :)
Posted by pegasus on September 16, 2007, at 16:46:57
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone » pegasus, posted by Daisym on September 15, 2007, at 0:30:13
Hi Daisy,
My little girl is doing great! Thanks for asking. She just started preschool, and I was all anxious. But she handled it like it was no big deal. No tearful goodbyes or anything! She loves it.
I saw my first client last week. It went really well. I know I'm really going to enjoy working with her. I feel like I have so much more knowledge about therapy than the others in my class, because of all I've learned here, and in my own therapy. Some of them seem so naive about the client's experience. But I guess everyone starts wherever they are.
It's good to be back here. Thanks for being so welcoming.
peg
Posted by Raindancer on September 16, 2007, at 18:03:34
In reply to I'm back, hi to everyone, posted by pegasus on September 11, 2007, at 12:25:15
Posted by Daisym on September 16, 2007, at 20:58:48
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone » Daisym, posted by pegasus on September 16, 2007, at 16:46:57
I'm curious -- Is it a requirement to have some personal therapy before you start working with clients? I know it changes from program to program.
Posted by pegasus on September 17, 2007, at 9:38:44
In reply to Re: I'm back, hi to everyone » pegasus, posted by Daisym on September 16, 2007, at 20:58:48
There is a requirement to have at least 20 sessions of personal therapy at some point during the program. They recommend that you do that during the clinical parts, so a lot of people don't actually start their own personal therapy until they are seeing clients. I understand where the program is coming from with that recommendation; seeing clients can bring up a lot of issues. But I agree more with what I think you're implying. I don't like that so many people start seeing clients without a significant experience of being a client first.
And, frankly, it amazes me that so many people seem to be entering the program without ever having done any of their own therapy! How do they even have any idea what the profession is like?
I think some of it is explained by the fact that many folks who enter the program seem to be planning to work at some specific community agency. So, their own therapy experiences would not be much of a parallel to what their future clients will be experiencing. But still . . .
peg
Posted by muffled on September 17, 2007, at 11:27:01
In reply to my counseling program » Daisym, posted by pegasus on September 17, 2007, at 9:38:44
> There is a requirement to have at least 20 sessions of personal therapy at some point during the program. They recommend that you do that during the clinical parts, so a lot of people don't actually start their own personal therapy until they are seeing clients. I understand where the program is coming from with that recommendation; seeing clients can bring up a lot of issues. But I agree more with what I think you're implying. I don't like that so many people start seeing clients without a significant experience of being a client first.
>
> And, frankly, it amazes me that so many people seem to be entering the program without ever having done any of their own therapy! How do they even have any idea what the profession is like?
>
> I think some of it is explained by the fact that many folks who enter the program seem to be planning to work at some specific community agency. So, their own therapy experiences would not be much of a parallel to what their future clients will be experiencing. But still . . .
>
> peg**yeah, I'm with ya all that way on that one Peg....
Kinda scarey.
We need to be informed consumers...
Unfortunately alot of the stuff that brings people into T makes us vulnerable to start with, and mebbe not thinking so good...sigh.
I definately think being on babble is proly akin to actaully having had some counsellor experience already under your belt.
A good thing.
Good luck on your journey.
I think counselling is proly a reallly hard, but rewarding job...
Muffled
Posted by pegasus on September 17, 2007, at 14:31:42
In reply to Re: my counseling program, posted by muffled on September 17, 2007, at 11:27:01
Hi muffled,
Thanks. I think it'll be hard and rewarding, too. At least because of my own therapy and babble experiences, I feel like I have a good sense of what I'm getting into. Even before I started seeing actual clients. And, believe me, I'm on a crusade to educate my colleagues about attachment, and especially how it plays out in termination!
peg
Posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 21:36:56
In reply to my counseling program » Daisym, posted by pegasus on September 17, 2007, at 9:38:44
In all fairness, sometimes people go into the mental health field because they know someone who has had mental health problems, a friend or relative. There are actually people who go into the field who do not have issues that need addressing in therapy. In my area, however, which is psychoanalytic, there is ususally a requirement for intensive psychotherapy if not analysis. And, of course in order to do analysis, one needs to go through one's own analysis.
I worked with some very fine therapists at Menninger's who were never in therapy themselves. I don't think that not having therapy means you can't be empathic and know how to work with patients. Just my two cents.
RealMe
Posted by Daisym on September 18, 2007, at 0:19:42
In reply to Re: my counseling program » pegasus, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 21:36:56
I didn't mean to imply that people in the mental health profession all have issues - but most of us have issues of some kind or another. I think that what therapy *is* and what many people imagine it to be, is different. But I also think that there is a HUGE difference between being the therapist and being the client. For a little while, it was hard for me, when working with parents, to let them do most of the talking. I had to remember that this was about them, not me.
I think there are so many different kinds of experiences with therapy that no one can actually duplicate anyone else's. Do most people use the University counseling center or do they do private therapy?
Posted by pegasus on September 18, 2007, at 12:24:54
In reply to Re: my counseling program » pegasus, posted by RealMe on September 17, 2007, at 21:36:56
Hi RealMe,
I know where you're coming from here. I do agree that there are some good therapists out there who have not been in therapy themselves, and who have never had diagnosable mental disorders (or however you want to delineate which people have issues that need addressing in therapy).
But I would argue that anyone in the world could benefit from an experience of good therapy. And therapists could benefit, in terms of adding to their professional knowledge, even if the experience was not so good.
I agree with Daisy that being a therapist and being a client are very very different experiences. Any therapist who has also been a client will most likely have a deeper, more empathic understanding of their clients than they otherwise would. Not to mention that they will probably have a deeper understanding of their own psychological makeup, which certainly affects how they do therapy with their clients. So, they might be good without having done their own therapy, but I believe they would, most likely, be better if they had.
peg
Posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 23:04:41
In reply to Re: my counseling program » RealMe, posted by pegasus on September 18, 2007, at 12:24:54
Mostly I would agree with you in that having done some sort of therapy or analysis is good for a therapist because it puts the person in touch with his or her self and what goes on internally. When I first started doing therapy with people, I did not think about my therapy, though, and even when I was doing postdoctoral training and was in therapy at the same time, I tended to keep my issues and therapy separate from my patients. I may have had a better sense of what it was like to be a patient, but as you know, each of us has our own unique experiences in life, and so I would never have presumed to think to myself, "Oh yeah, I know what she is talking about; I had the same experience." I may do that here as this is not therapy, but my experience of an event no matter how similar it is to someone else's event is not likely to be experienced in just the same way. But I may be preaching to the choir here. Sorry.
RealMe
Posted by pegasus on September 19, 2007, at 11:01:52
In reply to Re: my counseling program » pegasus, posted by RealMe on September 18, 2007, at 23:04:41
I think I agree with most of what you say. We all pull from our own experiences when we are being empathetic, but, of course, even when people have similar experiences, they're going to be different because the people are different.
That's not really what I was getting at, though. I was trying to bring up how a therapist's psychological makeup affects the way they act and react with their clients. And understanding that seems inevitably helpful for a therapist. I don't believe that it is possible to completely keep one's issues separate from one's therapy with clients. We bring our whole selves to that work, regardless of whether we intend to, or whether that is ideal. So, a better understanding of those issues - making them more conscious - is going to help a therapist better understand and therefore manage their reactions in therapy. And I believe that therapy is a particularly efficient way to get there.
I think we're really talking about apples and oranges here. I don't disagree with what you say, except the part about how you keep your issues and your therapy separate from your clients. I believe that that is only possible to the extent that your issues are conscious to you. I expect that your therapy has helped you to make those issues more conscious, and therefore given you a better ability to manage them (e.g., keep them separate from your clients' issues) when working with clients. It's not so much about being able to say that you understand your clients, because you've been exactly where they are. Although I do believe that broad experience, including being a client, can only be helpful for therapists. It's more about understanding yourself, IMHO.
peg
Posted by Daisym on September 20, 2007, at 0:39:14
In reply to Re: my counseling program, posted by pegasus on September 19, 2007, at 11:01:52
It is complicated, isn't it? But since the unconscious is stimulated by everything said and unsaid, I think knowing yourself and your buttons is really important for a therapist. And I think that personal experience with some of the "boundary" issues creates more sensitivity and thought about how each individual therapist might want to work. What we learn in books and classes often feels very different in the real world.
It is kind of like what happens before people become parents. It is "easy" to think to yourself, "my kids will never do that" or "I will never lose control like that person did" but in actuality, most of us have moments as parents we would never have imagined. It all changes when you are really in it.
And while I completely agree that a good therapist will keep their own issues out of the room as much as possible, sometimes a shared experience is helpful too. Not too long ago my therapist shared with me that when he was in therapy, he wanted to be special to his therapist too. He was trying to normalize my experience.
I used to be under the impression that every therapist had to go through therapy. Apparently that isn't true anymore. Interesting...
Posted by Raindancer on September 20, 2007, at 14:04:22
In reply to Re: my counseling program, posted by Daisym on September 20, 2007, at 0:39:14
Many (but not all) courses in the U.K. ask for experience of personal therapy and I think it is important for all the reasons you've said. I also believe that experience of the therapeutic relationship at first hand is pretty much vital. There is no relationship like it and the ebb and flow (some sessions 'good' some painful and difficult) and raw personal involvement cannot be understood in any other way. Warmest wishes to everyone.
Rain
Posted by RealMe on September 20, 2007, at 20:24:32
In reply to Re: my counseling program, posted by pegasus on September 19, 2007, at 11:01:52
Yes I agree that as long as one is conscious of one's own issues, then one can keep them from interferring with the work with patients. Analysts have to go through analysis, and my therapy years ago and not is indepth psychoanalytically informed, and so this works for me because, yes, I am more aware of my stuff and where it comes from and can also be in a position to change myself. Take care.
RealMe
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.