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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by sunnydays on February 16, 2007, at 20:36:41
So I told one of my friends I was having a hard time lately, because my T's gone for a few days on vacation. It only adds two days onto the normal week between appointments, but that's a long time when you've been feeling bad. And also, I can't email him or anything, because he'll be unavailable while he's gone. Well, I could email, but he wouldn't get it until he gets back. So no contact, when I have been having contact four or five times a week, at least, even if only just a couple words by email. He gave me the name of another T I can call if I need to. I know her, but not very well, and I don't like talking to people I don't know very well, so I'm not sure that calling her would help.
I'm also increasing to two times a week once he gets back. That's how hard a time I've been having. Just random depression. It gets really intense sometimes, and then goes away - usually it only stays a few hours at a time. My friend just didn't understand why I would miss him so much. She said I'd be fine, and I know it will be, that's not the issue. I don't need to hear that I got through longer periods than this, I'll get through this one. I just need her to understand the pain I'm in. I cried myself to sleep last night because I already miss him.
sunnydays
Posted by Daisym on February 16, 2007, at 23:17:48
In reply to why don't friends understand?, posted by sunnydays on February 16, 2007, at 20:36:41
Too many people only know about attachment to a therapist based on what they see on TV. They think missing him makes you pathologically dependent. Those of us who know better know you are in pain and he helps you bear the pain. Of course you miss him.
Do you have plans for the weekend? Can you distract yourself a little to make the time pass faster?
I'm sorry you are struggling so much right now. There seems to be a lot of that going around. If you want to say more about why, I'll be around to listen.
Posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 7:13:20
In reply to why don't friends understand?, posted by sunnydays on February 16, 2007, at 20:36:41
I think people would understand our attachments to our therapists if they knew what the nature of that relationsip really was.
I developed a very deep attachment to my T and when he was gone I would just miss him horribly. I felt really bad about it actually, dependent and needy.
But then I realized that the attachment I felt to him was one that I should have felt with my parents. They may have fed me and gave me shelter, but I never got the emotional nurturing, safety or care that is our birthright as human beings.
For some people, I think getting that kind of care from our therapist is an essential part of our recovery as it helps us move towards independence.
No one would begrudge a child missing a parent during a prolonged abscence, but they think that as adults we shouldn't need that anymore.
But the fact is we do need it and it hurts when it is not there.
Times like this are a good time to develop the skills to nurture yourself.
Those skills seem to be unique to the person.
Some things that really helped me though, was to identify what it would take to make me feel safe right at that time, making myself feel as physically comfortable as I could, and just allowing myself to miss my T.Maddie
Posted by scentedgarden on February 17, 2007, at 8:04:26
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? » sunnydays, posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 7:13:20
Hello Madeline, may i ask ...do you think any of the therapists miss their clients.?
i liked your post reply to sunny, and as i read it i wondered if you have any idea whether a therapist can miss a client...?
i mean the strong attatchment... i know they dont need us at all...so how does the parental attachment even get off the ground... if the therpaist (parent figure) AINT ATTACHED, how can the client( child figure) ever feel safe and secure... do we delude ourselves...? I ask as im interested in the attachment in therapy..as u may know i am hurting too.
if you dont want to answer, or think this is a different thread that okay, and i apologise for posting here...i just felt it was a continuation os sunnys thread..
much respect..
sg
Posted by Poet on February 17, 2007, at 11:28:49
In reply to why don't friends understand?, posted by sunnydays on February 16, 2007, at 20:36:41
Hi Sunnydays,
Only two of my friends know I'm in therapy. One thinks *it must be fun to just sit there and talk about yourself.* Yeah, loads of fun, laugh a minute, Poet says bitterly.
The other has been in therapy, but quits when it starts getting intense. So she understands how close you can get to your therapist, but she gets scared and runs. The positive is that she understands that relationship.
I decided not to tell anyone else, as I know they wouldn't understand why I need therapy in the first place. Like it isn't obvious? I'm sorry your friend couldn't give you the support you need. Keep posting to us, we understand.
Poet
Posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 11:49:05
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? post 2 madeline » madeline, posted by scentedgarden on February 17, 2007, at 8:04:26
I think your question is a very complicated one and it is one that I struggled with for years.
There are definately two people in the therapeutic space and there is very much a relationship between the therapist and the client. We ARE talking to human beings after all and I think they genuinely care for us and want only the best for us.
And when the therapist is good, the love they have for us is expressed in the purest, most unconditional form possible - they let us hurt and grieve and trust and cling and get mad, all the while letting us grow and move to independence.
They can guide us and go through our recovery WITH us, but they can't really be a part of it - we have to do that, just like we have to scrape our knee, bloody our nose and grow up as kids.
We may FEEL very much like children, but most of us are very clearly adults. And the childlike feelings we have in therapy and for our therapist I think definately can get co-mingled with very adult feelings of sexual desire, desire for mutual dependence, and mutual intimacy.
To me, it is not delusional to want these things with your therapist, in fact I think it is just a very natural and very adult extension of the trust we have with our T's.
But the experience WE have in therapy is very different than that of our therapist. They may very well miss us when we are not there, but we can not offer them the same trust they provide us. Just like a child can't be a peer to a parent.
We need to trust them, attach to them, love them, but they don't (and should never) need that from us.
So they do not seek the same kind of mutual dependence or intimacy that our adult minds tell us that we want. But rather help us to be ourselves and find those relationships with people who are our peers.
Maddie
Posted by widget on February 17, 2007, at 14:42:50
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? post 2 madeline » scentedgarden, posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 11:49:05
That was an eloquent and insightful response. I think you hit it on the head while wishing it weren't so. (Why can't my therapist miss me, etc.)? I am really thankful for all of the people who have written and DO understand. I don't think most of my friends would have a clue what I was talking about if I told them about my feelings for my therapist. But, they are real, no doubt. It really helps to know I am not alone.
Posted by scentedgarden on February 17, 2007, at 17:11:16
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? post 2 madeline » scentedgarden, posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 11:49:05
maddie...thank you for sharing ur insight with us...im most grateful for ur kindness and willingness to write back so eloquently...
may i ask one more thing plz...what happens if they ever do need to trust us...and the love they get from us...? my t said she trusts me of course i trust you she said in a sweet mummy voice... 5 weeks later she said no i dont trust u actually....i dont know what changed but she hurt me..with her change...
im at the stage now i cant bring myself to see her anymore... i just think its got too mixed up...i have been very hurt...not , not just the trust thing thats just a small part...but my heart cant bear to be near her anymore... i love her in too many ways right now, and cant stand the barriers... ive been helped, but now hurt..i dont say that word hurt lighty, as believe me my lifes been full of it...but with her recently i was more safe secure and happy, well loved than ever in my life...then she changed bang..!!!!
i cried , i thot id die ..but now im still alive the sharp stabbing pains in my heart and sternum have subsided...but im still only like a shadow...alone and in a place that feels scared to see her face as long as im on this planet ever again...maybe in heaven but not here...
to tease myself , looking at the person i want most in the world 3 feet away from me for 90mins...then be without her again for 6 weeks... im not that fecking stupid... i know i want to see her more than anything but not like this...not on her terms anymore...she hurt me...so she should lose me...i have to protect myself from the mummy who loved me back to life but that i developed sexual desire fantasy for more than ever in my life,,,she couldnt handle it so i pretended it had gone... then i discovered she had recently married... thats when my heart began to explode..not just the marriage...but it was a huge part of it...
if she knew i still loved her that way id have lost her...anyway who cares?? its my problem right?? and it is finished now...!!!
thank you maddie..
sg
Posted by sunnydays on February 17, 2007, at 18:11:08
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand?, posted by Daisym on February 16, 2007, at 23:17:48
> Too many people only know about attachment to a therapist based on what they see on TV. They think missing him makes you pathologically dependent. Those of us who know better know you are in pain and he helps you bear the pain. Of course you miss him.
**** But is it really ok to be so dependent? I'm so scared he'll get sick of me. Obviously if he offered to go to twice a week he doesn't think he will, but it scares me. I had a bad dream last night that he had gone and been in this class, and he talked to someone there and they told him he had to not see me as much, and he wrote me this whole long letter that he was still there, but not as much. It scared me. Because I'm so so scared he'll get sick of me. He says he won't....but it's so hard to believe.
>
> Do you have plans for the weekend? Can you distract yourself a little to make the time pass faster?**** Lots and lots of homework. Lots and lots...
>
> I'm sorry you are struggling so much right now. There seems to be a lot of that going around. If you want to say more about why, I'll be around to listen.
*** I don't know why I'm struggling, really. I just am. I get so intensely sad sometimes.sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on February 17, 2007, at 19:11:44
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? » sunnydays, posted by madeline on February 17, 2007, at 7:13:20
> I think people would understand our attachments to our therapists if they knew what the nature of that relationsip really was.
*** Yeah. So many people never have a really intense relationship like it, I think.
>
> But then I realized that the attachment I felt to him was one that I should have felt with my parents. They may have fed me and gave me shelter, but I never got the emotional nurturing, safety or care that is our birthright as human beings.**** Yeah, but I struggle with wondering if even though my parents didn't give it to me, is it alright to expect my T to give it to me? I mean, I pay him, but I feel like money could never ever be enough to thank him for the help he has given me. I just try as hard as I can and hope that seeing me grow (and I have grown and changed sooo so much since being in therapy) is enough of a reward for him.
>
> For some people, I think getting that kind of care from our therapist is an essential part of our recovery as it helps us move towards independence.**** Definitely. I can't believe the wonderful changes I have made in my life since starting therapy. I am so grateful for the opportunity.
>
> No one would begrudge a child missing a parent during a prolonged abscence, but they think that as adults we shouldn't need that anymore.**** Exactly. I feel so much like a child in that regard. I cried last session because I didn't want to leave. He was so nice and told me it was ok to cry and let me cry even though we were running out of time. I was trying so hard not to because I thought I had to go, but he just kept saying it was ok to cry, to let myself cry, and I did.
>
> But the fact is we do need it and it hurts when it is not there.**** It hurts so much.
>
> Times like this are a good time to develop the skills to nurture yourself.
>
**** Yeah, I try. I write a lot too.> Those skills seem to be unique to the person.
> Some things that really helped me though, was to identify what it would take to make me feel safe right at that time, making myself feel as physically comfortable as I could, and just allowing myself to miss my T.**** Maybe that would help. I resist missing him as much as possible. I fight this attachment so much, but sometimes it's so hard. I'm thinking maybe I should just allow it.
sunnydays
Posted by sunnydays on February 17, 2007, at 19:12:33
In reply to Re: why don't friends understand? » sunnydays, posted by Poet on February 17, 2007, at 11:28:49
Posted by madeline on February 18, 2007, at 6:32:55
In reply to why don't friends understand? post 2 maddie thx! » madeline, posted by scentedgarden on February 17, 2007, at 17:11:16
I do understand the pain you feel.
What I posted about the therapeutic relationship was simply my understanding of what happened to me. It literally took me years to get to that place of understanding and acceptance of my relationship with my T. During that time, I went through a lot of hurt, rejection and pain myself.
I was lucky though because my T was willing to let me process it with him and really helped me to bring it through to a resolution.
I think what you felt about your T is normal for a lot people in therapy and you felt secure and strong enough to express it (good for you!).
I would definately stop short of saying that what your going through is over. It clearly isn't. I think that right now you really do feel as though someone you could trust has abandoned you (again?). Losing that relationshop prematurely is sometimes worse than never having it in the first place.
After speaking with you in chat and reading your posts it is obvious (to me at least) that your T did not handle this whole situation well at all.
That doesn't mean that another T will do the same. It might be a good idea to start shopping around for another T to help you heal from this and start to work again on what brought you to therapy in the first place.
In the meantime, I know it may hurt like crazy now, but at least you were able to develop an attachment to someone, at least you were able to love. It speaks volumes about the strength of your spirit that inside you is someone that can still reach out to another human with hope.
Take good care. My thoughts are with you as you go through this.
maddie
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