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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 28. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
It's that time of year again, and the gulls have come to pick apart whatever flesh is left on my desiccated bones. I just can't do it again. After twentyfive years, I just can't do it again.
And my therapist's answer is to work harder, and to find my satisfaction and joy elsewhere in my life.
I just may have to rid myself of him and somehow save myself.
Posted by Daisym on January 12, 2007, at 17:52:05
In reply to I can't do it anymore., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
What does this mean, Dinah? 25 years of what? Work...marriage...hurricanes?
You sound so much like me I'm worried. My stuff maybe, but maybe not?
Hope you are OK.
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 18:15:05
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore., posted by Daisym on January 12, 2007, at 17:52:05
I've been resonating a lot with what you've been saying lately. So much so that you were a major topic of conversation in therapy today. Sometimes it's easier to talk in third person, you know?
My therapist even made me promise to keep safe on Monday.
Posted by Llurpsie_Noodle on January 12, 2007, at 18:38:45
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » Daisym, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 18:15:05
((((((Dinah)))))))
you take good care of you, okay? I miss you on babblechat, but I understand if you're gonna take a break from that. It's not the same without you though.I hope you get things sorted out. Days are getting longer. A little more sunshine every day.
hugs,
Lurp
Posted by Gee on January 12, 2007, at 19:43:50
In reply to I can't do it anymore., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
((Dinah))) keep safe. I would miss you around here if you weren't here. I know it's tough, but keep trying. Maybe a new t wouldn't be such a bad idea?
Posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 23:46:20
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » Dinah, posted by Gee on January 12, 2007, at 19:43:50
Thank you, and no worries. Fortunately that part of me that is most self destructive is also not very good at planning. I think I spent the evening in any number of vengeful and highly improbable plans then ate too much and passed out. Sometimes diabetes is quite convenient.
It's a new job I need to screw up my courage to find. Twenty six and a half years at any one stressful job is plenty. But I'm trapped by good benefits. :( That's why my therapist thinks I should suck it up and take it like a grownup.
Posted by Honore on January 13, 2007, at 11:57:22
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. - Llurpsie + » Gee, posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 23:46:20
Dinah, I'm sad and worried about you. I do think you need a new job. It's hard to jump off the edge of the world-- but you could do it-- you really could.
Sometimes, you just have to do it. But only if you feel as if you have to. No one can feel it for you, or can nudge you there. It's only if you feel as if you absolutely can't go on-- and you want something enough.
At least, that's why I did it. Not that I'm a good example of anything, really. So I might be wrong. But I think you have to really really want something-- in order to let go.
Being in a job that makes you so unhappy is terrible-- but is there something else you want?
I missed you last night in the chat. I hope you'll want to come back someday (soon).
{{{Dinah}}}
Honore
Posted by mair on January 13, 2007, at 12:14:08
In reply to I can't do it anymore., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
Dinah - Have you ever looked, even casually, to see what might be out there? Have you figured out what those benefits are worth to you (dollars and cents) and then tried to figure out how much it might cost you to replicate them, or for that matter, to do without them or with a lesser version of them?
I'm the master at staying rooted forever in a job which plays real havoc with my mental health, but I also live in an area where there aren't many alternatives which wouldn't be equally as stressful. It seems to me that you have skills which could be attractive to a lot of different employers and types of businesses.
The thought of going out and trying to convince someone else to hire me is genuinely terrifying and the thought of bringing new energy to a new job when I have so little energy is daunting. I'm sure you're plagued by some of the same fears. However, it may be worth it to figure out how to get by a just a bit less and it may be worth it to test the market a bit.
Without trying to be too critical to your T, I'm sure his view of this is colored by the numbers of times you've convinced him that finding other employment is not an option. Given the fact that you're in a frame of mind now of really wanting the time to do some different things, this may not be a bad time at all to revisit the issue.
mair
Posted by 64bowtie on January 13, 2007, at 17:01:32
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » Dinah, posted by mair on January 13, 2007, at 12:14:08
((( D i n a h )))
Pardon me for my lapses in memory... I do care very much how you are and what you are about... I, however, don't remember you ever not being tough enough to 'withstand'... Sometimes I forget this principle... I am able and strong enough to 'withstand', everything but my own failed expectations of myself... So, I extinguish my expectations and poooof! I'm back, as strong and fiesty as ever...
Rod
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 18:47:44
In reply to » Dinah » Re: I can't do it anymore! .....what???, posted by 64bowtie on January 13, 2007, at 17:01:32
I think I used to have expectations of myself, but not so much anymore. Now I just put one foot in front of the other and try to endure.
I'm not all that strong. I have very little gumption, and not much more will.
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 18:55:06
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore., posted by Honore on January 13, 2007, at 11:57:22
I think I just missed you last night in Chat.
What I want is to be a housemom. To create the warm and loving environment that a friend of mine had as a child. Well, probably more than one friend, but my aspiration is to be like Mrs. T.
Of course, I also want my therapist, and I love to spend money, and all of that would just have to go, which is what ties me to my job. I get good pay, good benefits, and a flexible, if alarming and adrenaline producing, work schedule. Moreover I like the actual work well enough, if I never had to hear from another person in my work life.
I feel trapped in a golden cage, and feel stupid to want to leave it.
It would have been so much easier, if initially traumatic, if we had moved to another city. But we've ruled that out till my son graduates high school.
Today of course I felt better, because today a dozen people weren't calling me insisting that their stuff was priority. (And truth be told, they all are priority, but there's just one of me, and when I get overwhelmed I freeze like a deer in the headlights, which always helps.)
Posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 19:08:52
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » Dinah, posted by mair on January 13, 2007, at 12:14:08
My therapist can't believe what my work lets me get away with, and doesn't seem to notice the price I have to pay.
Yes, I did speak hysterically to my boss on more than one occasion, and burst into tears. Yes, I even once stalked out muttering that I hated him, that I hated them all. And yes, I can largely work from home.
But the price is that they expect a lot from me, because I've given it in the past, and they're not altogether happy that I'm not up to my former standards, although I usually manage to squeak by.
And more importantly at this moment, the price is that the work is heavily deadline driven and tends to be feast or famine (although I don't recall any famines in the last two years).
It's not *at all* unusual for people to burn out after a few years, and I've been doing it since 1980 or 81. I really don't think he grasps that. I really don't think he grasps how few people who start doing this end doing this, and just how high the burnout rate is. Add anxiety and mood disorder issues (and health issues) it's absolutely astonishing that I have lasted this long.
I have actually looked in the paper today, and I'm thinking of making some private inquiries to parties who may be interested. Not because I particularly want to be doing that more than this, but just to try to find a stable work environment with only one person to answer to. I'm not sure such a place exists. But it's a pretty big step for me to be able to consider it.
Actually, there have been several occasions in the last few months where I came thisclose to carrying all my work stuff to my office and just leaving it there, and with enough of a provocation I think I'll end up doing something at least that stupid.
As you know, this job has been slowly damaging my mental and physical health since I turned about forty. I'm honestly wondering how much longer I *can* do it. I'd hate to have to lose my therapist, but it may end up being better for my mental health in the long run.
Is it really that difficult for you to find other employment? (I know I have no right to ask, considering how much trouble I have with change.) It has always seemed to me that your work is about as healthy for you as mine is for me.
Posted by MidnightBlue on January 13, 2007, at 23:28:13
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » mair, posted by Dinah on January 13, 2007, at 19:08:52
Dinah,
What about taking a three month medical/family leave. It would be without pay, but by federal law they have to give you your job back. Tell them you are burned out, half sick, and need a real REST.
That would give you a bit to try to adjust to life with less money/no T, and being a stay at home non-spending mom. And if you absolutely hate it or can't do it you could go back to your job.
MB
Posted by Poet on January 14, 2007, at 11:17:12
In reply to I can't do it anymore., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
Hi Dinah,
I have no answers for you, just identification. My T tells me not to worry about finding a job that uses my brain, that I need to try harder to find self-esteem from other things.
You would think that after four years in therapy, she'd realize if I could do that I wouldn't have needed her in the first place. Sigh.
Sorry those gulls are picking at you, I wish they would fly away.
Poet
Posted by canadagirl on January 14, 2007, at 21:44:21
In reply to I can't do it anymore., posted by Dinah on January 12, 2007, at 17:19:23
Take it easy, take care of yourself, it sounds like you are going through a very hard time right now. Be easy on yourself and don't expect too much of yourself. Don't make any quick changes just yet. Take a deep breath.
Posted by 64bowtie on January 14, 2007, at 22:06:14
In reply to Re: I can't do it anymore. » Dinah, posted by Poet on January 14, 2007, at 11:17:12
(((Dinah)))
Perhaps you could change your schedule for a few weeks to include Wednesdays off, so you can spend time being nice to yourself; being nice to (((Dinah)))....
Midnightblue suggested 3 months totally gone... I am offering another option that contains more close-in, short-term freedom.....
Perhaps your boss will get the message and suggest a golden-handshake early retirement... This would give you a few months to sort out your future interests while not being toooo disruptive to your family...
I sense that each day, Dinah ends up with the remains of the day lacking "purpose" (The Purpose Driven Life)... The time off will give you the time and space to dredge through the tough stuff to find a (new) purpose for you to hang your hat on...
I hope I sound like a friend, and not like a creepy bossy person... You know by now I turn-over-stones that others pass by... For you, I'll turn over a mountain...
Rod
Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 9:31:59
In reply to » Dinah » I like what Midnight blue shared, sorta, posted by 64bowtie on January 14, 2007, at 22:06:14
Checking otu the wanted ads and stuff, I figure my problem is that I divide my time too much. My father didn't try to be a dad and a worker. He worked when he had to and the h*ll with us. We weren't to bother him when he was busy.
So from now on, I'll go into the office every day, bring home work, drop my therapist, and stick my son in aftercare. What I do for a living has demands, and if I'm to do it, I need to do it, and not try to balance it with other parts of life.
I'll be telling my therapist tomorrow that I'm taking his advice, replacing him with risperdal and don't have time to see him anymore. Virtually losing two days a week is no way to do my job.
Daddy drank a lot too, but perhaps with a lot of Risperdal and Klonopin, and plenty of Provigil and extra strength caffeine, I won't have to drink as much as he did to put up with the work.
Posted by Honore on January 15, 2007, at 11:42:58
In reply to After looking at my options, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 9:31:59
Hmmmm.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
I don't know. Are you sure, Dinah?
I know you love your Father a lot-- but do you have to be like him? Isn't there a middle/other path?
I have the feeling that something is going on here that you haven't mentioned-- maybe you know what it is and don't want to say. I totally understand if that's it.
But maybe it has something to do with your son's getting older, and your sense that you're losing him? Or something else? I don't know. I'm just associating-- but I mean that I think there is something specific that's really troubling you-- and that you're trying to make it go away by doing certain things-- that might not be really grappling with whatever the feelings, or sense of loss, or pressure-- whatever it is.
If I were the tooth fairy, I would go to your boss and work out a work deal for you that was less disruptive to your sense of well-being. Or I'd tell him "bye-bye" and get you a better job. I know there are better jobs. But I also know that this is where your Father worked-- and you probably don't want to lose that connection. I think I'd just tell your boss to get it together and treat you right. I think it could be done-- if you only could give yourself the right to do it. That's incredibly hard, I realize.
I do have a feeling that extreme measures are not called for-- half-way measures are what you need-- ie not stopping your T, and not quitting your job-- ie not getting a different life-- but finding a way to moderate the demands, and get breathing space for yourself inside your life.
But it is really awfully hard-- but maybe thinking about how to move in that direction?
Sorry it's so hard now.
Honore
Posted by annierose on January 15, 2007, at 13:54:34
In reply to After looking at my options, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 9:31:59
I don't think that sounds like a good idea at all. And I don't think it is truly what you want to do. Will it make your life better? I don't think so.
Of course, there is nothing wrong in what you suggested. But it doesn't feel like Dinah.
SO let's have a vitural cup of coffee this afternoon. We're meeting before the kids come home and you drop this bombshell on me - your friend (because I consider myself your friend).
Me: Are you crazy? Why are you doing this?
Dinah: I need to put my work as a priorty. I need to get the work completed on time.
Me: Do you like your work?
Dinah: No, but it gives me good health benefits.
Me: Won't you miss your therapist?
Dinah: Yes. He is one of the most important people in my life.
Me: Won't you miss being with your child afterschool?
Dinah: Yes, he is the most important person in my life.
Me: so tell me again, why are you doing this?
Dinah: So I can be more like my father.
Me: And that works for you?
Don't do it. Life is short.
Annie
Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 15:09:18
In reply to Re: After looking at my options » Dinah, posted by annierose on January 15, 2007, at 13:54:34
It's not really to be like my father, or to do a good job at work.
It's more that I've been making myself sick for years trying to do it all. And since my therapist and my husband are opposed to my quitting work, and since my work has steadfastly opposed any attempt on my part to cut down my workload, the only alternative I can see is to give in. If I can't quit, and I can't cut down, and continuing to balance is impossible, the only remaining choice is to be a worker. It's not the one I want to make, but I just can't keep doing this, and I've tried everything else.
Posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 15:16:09
In reply to Re: After looking at my options, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 15:09:18
In fact, I'm pretty darn angry about it and doing some self injury for the first time in a long time. It is *so* not what I want to do.
I shouldn't complain though. It's a good job, and I'm lucky to have it. And most women have to work full time nowadays.
Posted by TherapyGirl on January 15, 2007, at 15:34:17
In reply to Re: After looking at my options - Trigger SI, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 15:16:09
I would respectfully reply, Dinah, that it's *not* a good job if it does this stuff to you. And I'm pretty much the queen of bad jobs (13+ years at a completely dysfunctional office where one boss committed suicide and the other one lived at the office (and "entertained" his mistresses there)). I also thought that it was the best I could do, the benefits and leave were good, etc., etc.
Now I have a good job for real -- although it took being laid off to force me into it. I'm working harder, but it is balanced -- I work my tootie off for 7.5 hours/day, I get comp. time when I work overtime (and it is always, always my choice) and the people are sane, balanced, professional, GOOD people.
I urge you to think about whether the whole work situation would go better if you worked somewhere where you weren't so burnt out.
I'm sorry it's so hard right now.
Posted by annierose on January 15, 2007, at 16:55:18
In reply to Re: After looking at my options, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 15:09:18
I'm sorry if I further hurt your feelings. The problem with the written word is that my tone of voice isn't conveyed. I am worried for you more than anything. Your post did sound angry and defeated. And I think there are probably more choices out there than the ones your proposed.
Sometimes my t will say to me when I feel stuck between a rock and a hard place, "Feeling miserable must feel familiar in a comfortable sort of way because you are not even looking for other options or paths." And I understand what she is saying, especially when I could take myself out of the situation and look at it as an outsider. It's not easy to do.
It reminds me of a post from Falls from long ago about her new (at the time) therapist challenging her on the comfortableness (if that's a word) of depression (I hope this isn't out of context).
I'm sorry you are hurting.
And if you decide to work full time, after school care isn't the end of the world. I have had to use it from time to time and my kids always had fun. When I went to enroll my son this year, (for days my daughter had swim practice) the school secretary offered up her high school son instead (he was looking for an after school job). That has worked out well.
AND - - - even when I work 40 hours a week (which isn't all the time) I am still able to see my therapist.
What I'm trying to say, it isn't ALL or NOTHING - although I hear that it feels that way to you. You could see your T's on Sundays as you currently do, for instance. His support has always been such a wonderful source of comfort for you.
I'm sorry. It's hard to be a working mom and do the balancing act. I always tell my friends with no kids - - I feel like the act in the circus with the man trying to keep the plates spinning on the stick.
It's hard.
I hope you find the right balance that's good for Dinah.
Posted by Honore on January 15, 2007, at 18:05:43
In reply to Re: Sorry Dinah -- - - » Dinah, posted by annierose on January 15, 2007, at 16:55:18
I'm really sorry too that you're angry and defeated, and especially that you're taking it out on yourself. Sometimes it's easier and feels better just to do that, when you feel trapped, and yet feel that you shouldn't be.
Being angry is sometimes all you can do.
When you pulled in too many directions, internally, and each of them seems to cancel out the others, and none of them give you any peace, I guess all you can do is try to exorcise the feelings.
It's easy for any of us to believe that there's a way out-- but the way is somewhere inside you, and sometimes the roads are blocked, and you can't find the way.
I just wish you the best life you can have, in any way I can.
I know you can stick with it-- even right now that seems like the worst thing.
I'm sorry if anything I said seemed out of tune-- but it is meant well-- even if it doesn't help.
Honore
Posted by rubenstein on January 15, 2007, at 18:35:35
In reply to After looking at my options, posted by Dinah on January 15, 2007, at 9:31:59
I am so sorry Dinah, this must be so hard for you. My thoughts are with you
rachel
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