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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 7:46:52
Others might say that he is just a “criminal”. I am not ready to accept that. Our son has struggled his whole life … and we (his parents) right along with him. Why can’t we find someone that can help him? And the big question, CAN he be helped?? He was diagnosed in elementary school with ADD. As years progressed he had added to that as diagnosis oppositional defiant disorder and OCD. Since then .. about two years ago, a good psychiatrist (in my opinion) finally diagnosed him with aspergers. Which, quite obviously, has been the problem all along. Had he received help .. way back when, he may have been a whole lot better off now. Our son is currently on prozac and risperdal. (The risperdal is only .50 mg.)
We .. as his parents have gone through hell and back trying to help him work through three different “offenses” from this past May. They all turned out to misdemeanor charges, but on his record nonetheless. (There is no one in either my husbands or my family that has any kind of a record.) This is just so very over whelming for us .. we don’t know what to do for him any longer. He has two misdemeanor charges on his record ..that we were told could more than likely be expunged IF he kept his “nose clean” over the next five years. One charge was for illegal use of someone else’s credit card. (He is currently on probation for this) The other was A/B .. he head-locked a girl because she was charging at him. He left marks, she called police, he ended up in jail. (He did community service, paid fines and now has the record. They did not “do” any additional probation time, since he was already on it for the other offense.
Now, after working through all of this and all of us going through hell .. he tells me that the sheriff dept phone number is showing up on our caller ID. I didn’t think too much of it (naïve, aren’t I?) I said it probably was just a wrong number .. or whatever. He became obsessive, calling the number and trying to find out why they would be calling. This was yesterday. He finally called me last night on my cell phone .. while I was out with husband and friends and told me he thinks he might know why they called. And proceeded to tell me that he took someone’s purse out of a car in a parking lot where he was at. He said, he found no money and dumped the purse not too far away. He tells me he doesn’t know WHY he did this again. He was a total wreck throughout the whole processing procedures of his other offenses over this past summer. How come he didn’t “learn” from that? What is “making” him do this?
I am so totally beside myself!!! We have, throughout this last springs ordeal, taken him to a “special counselor” AND a new psychiatrist. No one can advocate doing anything “different” for our son. I am thinking that he needs to be put into some kind of home/institution so that he can get the much needed help that he obviously needs. Why can’t something like this be available to him?
What can we .. as parents do for our son? I believe that he would not “survive” in any kind of a jail setting. He says way too many "wrong" things and his OCD can/does drive people nuts. Of course, as his parent .. I can’t stand the thought that he would have to spend any time there. If this is indeed “mental” it wouldn’t do him any good anyways, would it?
I haven't really filled in the whole story here, but I guess this post is long enough.
Wondering if anyone here has any input for me ...?
Posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 9:58:01
In reply to Can Our Son Be Helped?, posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 7:46:52
That's the good news, of course, and it's trite and pat. It's also true...
Your son has a psychiatrist, who's prescribed a very low dose of Risperdal. Why not raise it high enough to act on the OCD behaviors? Someone with more knowledge than I have will have to weigh in on whether this latest purse snatching is OCD-related or some other sort of impulse control disorder, but my guess is that a slightly higher dose of Risperdal is likely to be helpful. Or maybe raising the Prozac dose would help.
But more than either of those options, I strongly recommend getting him in to see a really good therapist. (And not only because we're on the psychotherapy board ;-) ) Working with a good therapist, he can learn new copings skills, and ways to control those impulses. Impulse control can be hard to learn as adults, but with motivation, a good therapist, and hard work, he can do it. DBT might be particularly helpful for him, if you can find someone in your area who practices it.
I'd also recommend family counseling -- at least for you and your husband, to help you learn to deal with the inevitable stresses something like this puts on you. If you can get into family therapy where your son comes along, too, as well as everyone seeing the T alone, that seems as though it would be optimal. (The idea being that each of you can express yourself alone in safety, and then, with the T's help, express yourself to your family with some safety.)
The last thing I have to say is that, if your son is over 18, it's important for you to start letting go. You cannot control what choices he makes, you cannot make him do anything -- but if he starts to resist your efforts (which most kids have practice doing with their mothers), you can impede him in the process of deciding whether he wants to change his behavior in order to stay out of jail. Offer him advice, sure -- but if he says something like, "Mom, what should I do," I'd advise an answer that sounds more like, "Well, Son, here are the realistic options in front of you. Think about the possible results of taking any of them, and decide which is in your best interest," rather than just telling him what you think he "should" do. Or ask him what he thinks his options are, or ask him what he thinks would happen if he makes Choice A rather than Choice B.
I'm sorry you're going through this. It sounds really hard.
Posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 10:18:29
In reply to Anyone can be helped, posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 9:58:01
Racer .. I sure do appreciate your response. The risperdal is that low because it makes him sleep all of the time if he is on it a higher dose.
I understand that I cannot control his choices. What I can't understand is why I am not able to find help for him!! Whey can't we find some way to get him into a residential program .. whereby they can work with him intensly? We .. as his parents, have been a total failure. Obviously we are not able to help him .. and he needs help!!
I just called a local mental health hospital .. and of course, they said that he does not fit any criteria to be admitted. Our local mental health agency has no money .. so they will not refer him to the residential program that would (probably) help him in the next county. (Yeah .. also, in the wrong county.)
Sheriff dept. called again this morning. (So my son says.) Because of his OCD, he is having a very hard time NOT calling them back.
I am trying to figure out what we should do at this point. His psychiatrist can't seem him until next week ..(He is out of town.) Son hasn't told his dad yet .. THAT is a whole 'nother issue. His dad will kick him out .. and he can't be kicked out, 'cause he is on probation and he is NOT supposed to move his residence.
Probation .. the other issue .. he is NOT supposed to have any contact with the law in any way, shape or form. Well, he will be "tried" again and then will have to go to court for violating probation.
As I said .. I just can't believe that we are having to deal with this. Will our nightmare EVER end?
(I'm sorry, I am feeling so hopeless right now. I am just ranting .. certainly not directing this at anyone. )
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 12, 2006, at 11:51:36
In reply to Re: Anyone can be helped » Racer, posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 10:18:29
Your son has one very good thing going for him- someone who cares about helping him heal. He didn't get into trouble all of a sudden, and he's not going to return to normal behavioral patterns overnight either.
As he progresses in his treatment, he's going to go through a lot of rough patches. You will need all the patience and love than only a parent can give. Take care of yourself during this time also. Don't sacrifice your own dreams and mental health to your son.
Be open to recognizing and acknowledging even small progresses. Tell him that you support him, and that you know he's going through a lot. When he does something that surprises you in a positive way, don't be shy to tell him that you're proud of him. Tell him that as he tries to learn and get better, you will try to learn more about him too.
best of luck, and feel free to ask for help for yourself too. There's no such thing as mental illness that only affects one family member.
-Li
Posted by gardenergirl on October 12, 2006, at 12:20:12
In reply to Re: Anyone can be helped » Racer, posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 10:18:29
>
> I understand that I cannot control his choices. What I can't understand is why I am not able to find help for him!! Whey can't we find some way to get him into a residential program .. whereby they can work with him intensly?Two reasons come immediately to mind. First, there are not enough beds nor funding available to cover all those who might benefit from residential treatment. Second, your son may not qualify because treatment should occur in the least restrictive environment required. A residential program might be considered too restrictive for your son if he's not a danger to himself or others. What does his counselor or psychiatrist say about your desire for residential treatment?
> Sheriff dept. called again this morning. (So my son says.) Because of his OCD, he is having a very hard time NOT calling them back.I'm not clear on why the sheriff dept. is calling. Are they calling specifically for him? Leaving messages? Is it indeed a wrong number? If so, has anyone let them know they are calling the wrong number? If they are calling for your son, shouldn't he return the call? I'm very confused.
> Probation .. the other issue .. he is NOT supposed to have any contact with the law in any way, shape or form.Does that mean he is not supposed to have anymore violations? Or not even speak with anyone in law enforcement?
It certainly sounds like a really difficult situation. Racer recommended family therapy, and I second that. It's also important to make sure you are taking care of yourself and your own health when under so much stress. I'm sure as a parent it's difficult to put yourself first, but remember that airplane instruction: Put your own oxygen on first before helping others. You can't help anyone else if you pass out first.
Take care,
gg
Posted by zazenducky on October 12, 2006, at 15:43:36
In reply to Can Our Son Be Helped?, posted by flame on October 12, 2006, at 7:46:52
Have you checked out NAMI
They might have a local support group for families. They can be a tremendous resource for parents.And do you have a lawyer? I think you should call him and let him find out what is going on with the phone calls.
Posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 16:21:11
In reply to Re: Anyone can be helped » flame, posted by gardenergirl on October 12, 2006, at 12:20:12
> > I'm sure as a parent it's difficult to put yourself first, but remember that airplane instruction: Put your own oxygen on first before helping others. You can't help anyone else if you pass out first.
>
> Take care,
>
> ggThat's a great analogy, GG. You come up with some great ones, did you know that?
Posted by flame on October 13, 2006, at 5:27:11
In reply to That's a really good analogy » gardenergirl, posted by Racer on October 12, 2006, at 16:21:11
Hi Racer and All who responded ..
Yes, I do know that I have to take care of myself. This is just something that I never could have prepared for .. a child of mine having numerous legal problems.
To those of you who were derailed by my original long post .. the sheriff dept was calling to ask our son "questions". Apparently they had seen his car in the parking lot (that son took purse in) with the store security cameras. Our son finally DID call him back (yesterday) and answered the sheriff's questions .. which was "confessing". He is already on probation from offenses from last spring. (See my first orginal post) So, he has violated probation and his probation officer says that there is a very good chance he will go to jail. ..And then of course .. he will have to be "processed" through for the actual crime that he committed. Who knows what that will bring for him NOW! We feel that judges were pretty lenient on him the "first times". Considering the situation NOW, I'm thinking he will have "harder time" to serve. (The only thing he had to do previously .. is pay all fines, go to behavior classes, do community service and be on probation for six months.) We paid all of his fines .. which came to several thousand dollars. (We were trying to insure that he did not do jail time.)
My husband was SO mad when our son finally called him to tell him what was going on. He told him he had to get out of the house and that we were not going to help in any way shape or form on what he was going to have to go through with the court systems now. So, our son is now staying at a friends house (which is violating probation .. he is NOT supposed to be anywhere but home after 11 p.m. at night.) My husband doesn't care (or so he says.)
I have a tendency to go on and on .. whenever I type posts (on any board) and my posts get too long. I will end this particular post now. I just wanted to (kind-of) update on what has transpired since my last post yesterday. I do have more that I would like to ask/pose to you folks here and that will be later this morning.
Thanks for your support,
Flame
Posted by flame on October 13, 2006, at 14:52:24
In reply to Re: That's a really good analogy » Racer, posted by flame on October 13, 2006, at 5:27:11
Okay, to expound on my post from earlier today, my husband had an outlandish solution to our son’s stealing problem and that is that we make sure that our son has money every week. It is true that his stealing did not ever happen before, until he lost his job. (He lost his job last February and his first “stealing” incident happened in May. But he was getting $228 unemployment every two weeks!??)
In response to an email I sent to one of our son’s counselors, just recently, asking if he would aid us in applying for SSDI for our son. The counselor basically said that he would “agree” that he is disabled, but would also mention that he does have ability to work. He “told” me that we were allowing him to get away with too much and “providing” too much for him.
So, my husband’s idea is exact opposite to our son’s counselor. (Personally, I think my husband’s suggestion is bizarre.) I Do feel like our son takes advantage of us .. and I would not (at all) like just “giving” him money every week.
My husband’s attitude is that .. we did not (previously) make sure son had money every week, and thus we ended up paying thousands of dollars in fines and court fees .. to make sure son didn’t go to jail. So .. husband believes that if we make sure that son has money coming every week (that son knows he can count on) that he would stop stealing.
Does anyone else think this is bizarre? I mean .. yes he is right that we have paid a lot of money for our son for all of the court fines, etc .. but now to keep him out of jail, we need to pay him every week? I almost feel like I am being black mailed. What options do we have? Our son, has many problems, that's for sure. But as his counselor has said before, he DOES have a memory and what will we be "teaching" him if we begin to "pay" him. This 26 yr. old adult son of ours gives nothing (already) to pay for rent, groceries or any of his expenses. And NOW we have to pay him for just being????
If son does go to jail for probation violation, is he going to come out even worse .. after being in contact with so many others that have all of their own sets of problems???? Gosh .. will there ever be an end to this vicious circle???I know this post is "fragmented" and a lot of ranting going on ..
Thanks All for "listening"!
Flame
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 19:10:57
In reply to Am I The Only One That Thinks This Is Bizarre?, posted by flame on October 13, 2006, at 14:52:24
Well, one option that I can think of is kind of like an allowance program. Your son has the ability to work. However, he is probably distracted, impulsive and difficult to employ. Has he tried working for temp agencies? These places often hire people who may be great employees at times, but unstable employees in the long run. It might give your son some positive structure in his life if he signs up to do a job that has expectations (hours, dress, behavior), but not where he feels like he is entrapped in some awful place until the end of time.
An option that may work (although I'm not that confident) is to pay your son to do household chores, either for your household for around the neighborhood. Mowing lawns, planting, cleaning gutters, raking leaves, washing cars. This kind of employment is physical, active and would provide him with cash, which is fairly easy to conceal from the relevant authorities, while still giving your son a feeling of autonomy and accomplishment. The danger in this, however, is that your son will take the money for granted, and not do his job as well as someone who respects doing this type of work well. It will also demand a great deal of organization and a unified front from you and your husband.
Your son is clever. If he wants money, he's stealing it. Maybe he's already been stealing from you for years. He may end up finding other forms of high-risk profiteering as he becomes accustomed to certain luxuries.
Little kids little problems. Big kids big problems.
Does he realize that he's a guest in your household? Does he help with dishes and taking out the garbage? Does he pull his weight? My guess is no... so, paying him would in a sense, be rewarding him for his behavior.
I'm not sure how reasonable THIS suggestion is, but-- why not pay for your son's bills and such using your son's money? If he cannot afford it, you should hold a meeting where the bills and fines and such are tallied up. Compare these bills to something that your son values- tuition? a new car? some toy? a trip he'd like to take? and tell him that the consequences of his actions are endangering the support that his parents give him. Give him numbers and compare it to something that he values (everyone values SOMETHING!!). Tell him what bankruptcy is, and how it will affect his ability to be able to lease an apartment, finance a car, or get a student loan. Tell him that he's headed that direction, because he does not have access to an endless supply of money.
Finally, throw him a lifeline. Tell him that if he ever has an uncontrollable urge to steal something or committ a criminal act, that he will be able to call someone and count on someone to help him find a safe place where he will not have access to these triggers. Perhaps he regrets his actions after the fact, but in the height of the moment, he doeesn't feel that he has anyone he can reach out to for help. Maybe that person can be his therapist. Maybe one of his parents is strong enough to take on this role. It might help him- just to know- that someone is there for him, even when he is feeling like a bad person, that they still care for him.
sounds extremely difficult. I don't know if I have given you any good advice at all, but I DO know that the most important thing is to keep your son motivated to stay on the right path and let him know that when he falls, that he has the strength to get up and keep moving, that he shouldn't ever give up on himself.
-Li
Posted by Jost on October 14, 2006, at 1:26:45
In reply to Re: Am I The Only One That Thinks This Is Bizarre? » flame, posted by Lindenblüte on October 13, 2006, at 19:10:57
Hi, flame.
I wonder if you and your son (and possibly husband) have sat down and talked through what actually happened, why he thinks he stole the purse, and what the Sheriff said is going to happen.
I can't quite understand what the ramifications are of his having "confessed" to a crime (stealing a purse is a crime, isn't it?).
Is there going to be a prosecution?
I can't see how giving your son money would help the situation. Does he ask for money? Has that been an issue-- ie conflict about his having no job, wanting money from you?
If he has a psychiatrist or therapist, have you or could you have a family session?
Do you feel that you understand what's going on with your son? Is it very hard to talk to him? One thing, among others, that's missing is where he stands, how he reacts emotionally on all this--
You perhaps feel helpless and at a loss, your husband I guess is angry and perhaps also feeling helpless-- that's very superficial, of course-- but where is your son in all this?
Is he close to you, to a friend, to anyone?
It's very difficult, but working jointly as a family really could help--if there's any way of doing it-- help all of you accept the difficulties and find a way to move forward. Perhaps?
Jost
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