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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
I loved my dad like so many little girls love their daddies. My mom just wouldn't let him love me back because of her traumatic past.
No wonder my husband can't convince me he loves me.
And now, I love my T and he can't love me back, either.
How is this supposed to work? Am I supposed to be reliving all the pain?
I shouldn't have told him. I'm just asking for more hurt. :-(
Posted by annierose on March 6, 2006, at 16:27:43
In reply to Is this supposed to work?, posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
I don't know how it's supposed to work, but I feel and understand that pain all too well. It's interesting how we unconsciously recreate our past.
HOWEVER ... I do think that your T will ultimately help you with this. Sharing how you felt is one of many steps along the journey. I do think your T will help heal the wound of the past so you will be able to receive the love of your husband in the here and now. It just takes time, and lots and lots of talking about those feelings.
Posted by fallsfall on March 6, 2006, at 22:16:39
In reply to Is this supposed to work?, posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
(((Alldone)))
It is good when we can start to see patterns. Painful, but good. Try to explore the similarities and differences with your therapist. Somehow, it will help.
Posted by Dinah on March 6, 2006, at 22:34:20
In reply to Is this supposed to work?, posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
I wish I knew. I wish I knew whether there was really some benefit in attaching to our therapists, or if it's something you just have to get over.
Obviously, looking around Babble, some people have gotten a lot of benefit from it. And others have ended therapy without having gotten much benefit from the attachment. What makes the magic alchemy I don't know.
I think maybe I wish I had never gotten attached. Once I got attached, I don't think telling him so added to the hurt.
There's not even any advantage to going to the sex of therapist you aren't normally attracted to, because obviously therapist attachment knows no sexual lines.
Maybe those who came through to the other side better off than when they went in can chime in to encourage the rest of us.
Posted by Daisym on March 7, 2006, at 0:44:55
In reply to Is this supposed to work?, posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
Yes, I think it is supposed to work. It is just slow going and change is hard. Trust is hard. Opening ourselves up to being loved is really, really hard. It means we have to learn that we can honestly love, without any hurtful motivations, because by feeling this ourselves, we begin to trust that another could feel it for us, too. And the fact that loves just grows, and feels good, is somewhat shocking, isn't it?
It hurts to love someone with so many restrictions. I know this too well. But if I stop fighting it for a little while and just let it be, it actually helps me to believe that there is more love like this to be found. Because it is me being able to love like this that is so amazing.
I've been trying to come up with an analogy (aren't I always) and right now the best I can do is to use flowers. Therapy love is like a hot house flower. It needs a specific environment to blossom and a lot of sensitive care. And it is rare and beautiful and meant to be enjoyed simply because it has bloomed. And for a while it can out shine other, more ordinary flowers, around it.
But there are other flowers in the world. Flowers that look better in bouquets with other flowers. Flowers that have a purpose, beyond beauty. They smell good, or make us feel better, or are made to eat. Whatever. They aren't nearly as rare, nor are they as fragile. But we still enjoy these flowers and in fact, often prefer the heartier varieties. Because they last longer and aren't such high maintence. And if we plant the right seeds, these flowers, this kind of love, blooms over and over again. Like the love you have for your husband.
It *is* possible to nurture and enjoy that hot house flower, even as you return to your own house and enjoy your own garden each day.
And btw, I don't believe that naming the flower makes it anymore fragile.
I know you are hurting and that ache feels like it just can't ever be soothed, that need can't ever be met. It is grief in its purest form, unrequited love. But put aside your guilt and let your husband hold you. He can help make you feel safe and cared for. You might be able to take in his love just a tiny bit better, and then a tiny bit better than that. Slowly, if you are lucky, the love you feel for your therapist will make you strong enough to allow yourself to be totally loved by your husband. Accepting someone else's love is so much harder than offering our own. This is a worthy goal. I think you, and your therapist, are up to it.
Hang in there.
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:12:01
In reply to Re: Is this supposed to work? » All Done, posted by annierose on March 6, 2006, at 16:27:43
> I don't know how it's supposed to work, but I feel and understand that pain all too well. It's interesting how we unconsciously recreate our past.
>
> HOWEVER ... I do think that your T will ultimately help you with this. Sharing how you felt is one of many steps along the journey. I do think your T will help heal the wound of the past so you will be able to receive the love of your husband in the here and now. It just takes time, and lots and lots of talking about those feelings.I guess I just don’t understand. In recreating our pasts, aren’t our T’s supposed to provide a safe and nurturing environment where we can experience how it “should have been”? Instead, I’m going through the same pain with my T and he can’t give me a different outcome.
Sorry, I guess I’m just thinking outloud.
Thanks for understanding and talking to me about it, annierose.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:13:22
In reply to Re: Is this supposed to work? » All Done, posted by fallsfall on March 6, 2006, at 22:16:39
> (((Alldone)))
>
> It is good when we can start to see patterns. Painful, but good. Try to explore the similarities and differences with your therapist. Somehow, it will help.At the moment, I’m stuck in seeing the similarities and I can’t find any differences. Maybe he can help with that?
I feel like a stubborn brat. :(
Thanks for putting up with me all the time, falls.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:15:25
In reply to Re: Is this supposed to work? » All Done, posted by Dinah on March 6, 2006, at 22:34:20
> I wish I knew. I wish I knew whether there was really some benefit in attaching to our therapists, or if it's something you just have to get over.
>
> Obviously, looking around Babble, some people have gotten a lot of benefit from it. And others have ended therapy without having gotten much benefit from the attachment. What makes the magic alchemy I don't know.
>
> I think maybe I wish I had never gotten attached. Once I got attached, I don't think telling him so added to the hurt.
>
> There's not even any advantage to going to the sex of therapist you aren't normally attracted to, because obviously therapist attachment knows no sexual lines.
>
> Maybe those who came through to the other side better off than when they went in can chime in to encourage the rest of us.I’m so afraid that I’m going through all of this self-examination and will end up at the same place I started. Or worse, I’ll go through it only to find I don’t like the end “product”. I know I will still be me, but I’m hating some of the stuff I’m finding out about me. Or maybe I’m just hating the process of finding that stuff out…I don’t know. It’s too hard, I can’t stop whining about it, and today’s not a good day. :(
I hope both of us learn the benefit of attachment...and fast.
(((Dinah)))
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:20:45
In reply to Re: Is this supposed to work? » All Done, posted by Daisym on March 7, 2006, at 0:44:55
> Yes, I think it is supposed to work. It is just slow going and change is hard. Trust is hard. Opening ourselves up to being loved is really, really hard. It means we have to learn that we can honestly love, without any hurtful motivations, because by feeling this ourselves, we begin to trust that another could feel it for us, too. And the fact that loves just grows, and feels good, is somewhat shocking, isn't it?
>
> It hurts to love someone with so many restrictions. I know this too well. But if I stop fighting it for a little while and just let it be, it actually helps me to believe that there is more love like this to be found. Because it is me being able to love like this that is so amazing.
>
> I've been trying to come up with an analogy (aren't I always) and right now the best I can do is to use flowers. Therapy love is like a hot house flower. It needs a specific environment to blossom and a lot of sensitive care. And it is rare and beautiful and meant to be enjoyed simply because it has bloomed. And for a while it can out shine other, more ordinary flowers, around it.
>
> But there are other flowers in the world. Flowers that look better in bouquets with other flowers. Flowers that have a purpose, beyond beauty. They smell good, or make us feel better, or are made to eat. Whatever. They aren't nearly as rare, nor are they as fragile. But we still enjoy these flowers and in fact, often prefer the heartier varieties. Because they last longer and aren't such high maintence. And if we plant the right seeds, these flowers, this kind of love, blooms over and over again. Like the love you have for your husband.
>
> It *is* possible to nurture and enjoy that hot house flower, even as you return to your own house and enjoy your own garden each day.
>
> And btw, I don't believe that naming the flower makes it anymore fragile.
>
> I know you are hurting and that ache feels like it just can't ever be soothed, that need can't ever be met. It is grief in its purest form, unrequited love. But put aside your guilt and let your husband hold you. He can help make you feel safe and cared for. You might be able to take in his love just a tiny bit better, and then a tiny bit better than that. Slowly, if you are lucky, the love you feel for your therapist will make you strong enough to allow yourself to be totally loved by your husband. Accepting someone else's love is so much harder than offering our own. This is a worthy goal. I think you, and your therapist, are up to it.
>
> Hang in there.Your analogy is fantastic, Daisy. I know you understand the pain I’m feeling, but...
no matter how much I’m okay with loving him and how much I can enjoy it, I just don’t see how it can convince me that *I’m* the loveable one. I already know and knew I have the capacity to love. I learned that a thousand times over the day I had my son. The problem is, I just don’t know why someone would choose to love me. And now, there’s this environment where my T knows so much about me, the real me, and he can’t make that choice. The one I want so desperately to believe he would make, if he could.
Sorry, I think I’m not making much sense. :(
Sometimes I wonder (aloud, of course) if my T "gets" it. I suppose I might really be wondering if I get it. It's all so confusing to me. It can be amazing to watch sometimes, but I hate feeling like the lab rat in my big experiment.
You hang in there, too (((Daisy))). Thanks for everything.
Laurie
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:21:08
In reply to Is this supposed to work?, posted by All Done on March 6, 2006, at 10:43:57
Posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:22:36
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm cranky, everyone :( (nm), posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:21:08
Posted by Dinah on March 12, 2006, at 10:29:40
In reply to Re: Sorry I'm cranky, everyone :( (nm), posted by All Done on March 8, 2006, at 17:21:08
Inspired by your post about being cranky.
I hadn't really noticed you were cranky.
Maybe the healing aspect, for you, will be to be able to get truly angry this time. At all the things you've ever wanted but haven't been able to have. Of all the times you've wanted more and haven't been able to get it. Maybe the difference this time is that you don't have to take it silently or in good humor or by being understanding. Maybe the healing can come in a supermegatransference. So that you can get super-angry, then grieve, and then be able to see it as something you've grieved and moved along from. Although grief always sticks with us, the sort you acknowledge and live through is supposed to interfere with our lives less.
Just a crazy idea, and may be worth what all my early morning (yes, it's early morning for me) ideas are worth.
Posted by All Done on March 13, 2006, at 22:15:49
In reply to A wild idea, posted by Dinah on March 12, 2006, at 10:29:40
> Inspired by your post about being cranky.
>
> I hadn't really noticed you were cranky.
>
> Maybe the healing aspect, for you, will be to be able to get truly angry this time. At all the things you've ever wanted but haven't been able to have. Of all the times you've wanted more and haven't been able to get it. Maybe the difference this time is that you don't have to take it silently or in good humor or by being understanding. Maybe the healing can come in a supermegatransference. So that you can get super-angry, then grieve, and then be able to see it as something you've grieved and moved along from. Although grief always sticks with us, the sort you acknowledge and live through is supposed to interfere with our lives less.
>
> Just a crazy idea, and may be worth what all my early morning (yes, it's early morning for me) ideas are worth.Well, Dinah, if your idea is crazy, so were my T's ideas. At my last session, I told him how much I wanted him to be able to love me back. The discussion shifted to my dad's inability to love me the way I wished he would have. As always, I blamed my mom a lot, but my T gently nudged me to think about the effect of my dad's alcoholism and the decisions *he* made, apart from my mom.
It was really hard to think about. After talking about it a little, I said something like, "my dad was the only one who could ever love me the way I needed to be loved. I only had one dad and now he's gone and I'll never get the kind of love I wanted or needed from him." Then, I started getting dizzy and felt like I was sort of floating away. I've had this happen a few times, but it never lasted as long as it did this time. Anyway, once the feeling passed a bit, my T started using words like "resentment". He didn't say anger, but I think he knows better than to use that word right away with me ;). I'm pretty sure you're both on to something, though.
It's just scary to me. I'm afraid of everyone thinking I'm crazy and irrational for being angry. Like they think of my mom.
And supermegatransference?? Well, just typing that out makes me nervous. ;)
Early morning or not, your ideas are always worth so much to me, Dinah.
Thanks,
Laurie
Posted by Dinah on March 14, 2006, at 12:36:25
In reply to Re: Not so wild » Dinah, posted by All Done on March 13, 2006, at 22:15:49
Anger at loved ones is a scary scary notion.
I have had such ambivilant feelings about my father. Ambivilant is so much harder than the way I feel about my mother. Although sometimes I think I ought to try to develop a bit more ambivilance in how I think of my mother.
Your therapist is doing a great job, it sounds like, of working with how you feel about him to get at your deeper issues. What we'd like them all to be able to do.
It doesn't feel as good as having them tell us they love us (in whatever way we want them to love us), but in the end perhaps it's more valuable. Which doesn't help much in the moment, I know.
D*mn it. I wish they'd just tell us they loved us like a client/daughter!!!
Oops. Looks like my own issues and desires slipped in there.
This is the end of the thread.
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