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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by happyflower on December 9, 2005, at 15:25:30
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 15:17:41
Sometimes I think we need to "teach" our T's on how to their jobs for our needs. Good luck, it is hard to discuss this stuff with our T's . One time I had to tell my T to back off, now that was hard, but I did it, and it did help. LOL
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 16:58:37
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 15:17:41
I think Happyflower is right. Generic therapy rarely fits everyone, and they don't know how we're reacting unless we tell them.
Can you start up a conversation when you feel it happening? And tell him you didn't quite understand why this style of backing off was in your best interests? That way it doesn't have to be confrontational.
I am very up front about the temperature in the room, so to speak. If I feel he isn't engaged, or if I feel him pull back, I mention it right away, and he's usually able to put the energy back into the room. That saves me from the anger that comes to me from an empty session.
Posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 18:21:17
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » LauraBeane, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 16:58:37
Hi Laura -
It's nice to see you posting again. And like Tamar said, I don't remember anything you talked about making me feel offended, so please stick around.
Like Dinah, I do tend to mention to my T at the moment "You seem to be elsewhere today," or "Are you mad at me?" ... when I sense she is not in the room with me (which is rare, I might add). At first it was hard to bring up these "moments", but it has always helped bring the conversation/therapy back to where I want it. Sometimes my T will even ask, "What can I do differently, what do you want me to do to help you?" I sometimes surprise myself at what comes out of my mouth!
Try being direct and see how he responds to you.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:20:18
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » LauraBeane, posted by Tamar on December 9, 2005, at 15:03:42
Thanks for remembering me Tamar, and for your kind words!
Yes you are right, when my T pulls back and pulls back so strongly, it feels to me as if I have shared aloud something better left unsaid. It is very hard. Most recently, a topic came up that brought us into an intense discussion which ended too soon, nearly mid-sentence, but I left feeling really connected & good despite the difficult subject matter. But the following week, everything had changed. The distance is palpable, as I think it is meant to be.
You mention the rhythm in therapy, Cine also mentioned the pace of therapy and the problem of flooding. I am sure I am a flooder. (word?) Perhaps I need to see if we circle back to it on a less intense level.
Talking about it is such a relief. Thank you for your valuable two cents, worth much more than that to me.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:21:06
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:20:18
Posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:37:14
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » LauraBeane, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 16:58:37
I like your phrase "temperature in the room," it describes the atmosphere so well yet keeps the tone objective.
I actually did bring this up once -- I called after a session because I was so upset at the way things had changed from one week to the next. He acknowledged it and told me he steps back at times in order to regain perspective. Knowing this does not make it feel any less personal when it happens. I feel so rejected.
It helps to know that you have had to address something similar with your therapist and that he responded when you brought it up. I'm not so sure mine would. I think this is something he needs to do. Whether I can handle it or not is what I have to figure out, I suppose.
Thanks Dinah for your reply.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:49:15
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by annierose on December 9, 2005, at 18:21:17
Thanks annierose for encouraging me to post! And for sharing your experiences. I might just borrow your words because you make your point in such a nice way. You help me realize I was extremely defensive about it the one time I brought it up.
I do think this is a deliberate distancing that has to do with pacing and intensity. I think another poster is right in saying it is part of his style, now I need to see if we can negotiate through this. I don't want to stop working with him, he has helped me so much, but I also don't think he's going to change.
Thanks again for your reply.
Posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:05:15
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » annierose, posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 19:49:15
Don't be so sure he won't change. Although I understand not wanting to get your hopes up.
I talked to my sex therapist about her style, and while she wasn't willing to change it completely for me, she surprised me by being more than willing to change the pace and intensity of it. She was mainly glad that I had had the courage to speak to her about it. It was a very polite and non-confrontational discussion and I'm very glad we had it, even if I don't stay with her long term.
Of course, I tried the same thing with my biofeedback therapist a few years back and got a very different reaction. :(
But you never know. I'd have never guessed she would take the entire topic so well.
I am very lucky with my therapist. One of the things he does best is take feedback well.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 10, 2005, at 7:46:35
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » LauraBeane, posted by Dinah on December 9, 2005, at 20:05:15
I do feel I need to bring it up again. You're right though, I don't want to get my hopes up. It's not as if I never put it out there before, and when I did it was clear I was upset. I think this is his way of maintaining balance, so as not to become enmeshed in my stuff.
It's very hard. I am really agonizing over it. I am thinking about cancelling our next session, which is something I never do and I don't want to do, but I feel like such a fool for having opened up this stuff and I don't know if I can follow him into another topic. It feels so forced and artificial to me. The reaction at the time was positive but the pulling away, avoiding any deep discussion of it at the following session, instead running through the issues in a most dispassionate "let's sum this up" way is a killer for me.
Sorry dinah I don't mean to get so intense. I just have to figure out what to do.
I'm not going to keep saying thanks for your reply, I think I can assume you know I appreciate your reply. :-)
Posted by LauraBeane on December 10, 2005, at 7:48:02
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 10, 2005, at 7:46:35
Posted by annierose on December 10, 2005, at 20:11:27
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 10, 2005, at 7:46:35
Cancelling the next session is rarely the right path. When our brains gives us this thought, I often wonder (because I sometimes have the same reaction) "What am I running away from?".
Cancelling a session doesn't solve the problem. I often have problems IRL dealing directly with conflict, in a non-confrontive manner. Therapy gives me these "learning opportunties" all the time. It takes a great deal of courage to muster the strength to say, "The other day when we talk about x,y, and z, I felt .....". But everytime I do bring these types of topics into therapy, it is ALWAYS helpful. It may take more than one session to resolve the conflict, but it does get resolved.
Try to go. Try to tell him what you wrote about here. This is his area of expertise. He should be able to have this discussion.
We'll be pulling for you.
Posted by tarabara on December 13, 2005, at 16:10:29
In reply to Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 9, 2005, at 9:58:19
hi laurabeane. i am too being treated for ptsd and have had huge issues with distance and boundries. i also experience the hot and cold in therapy and can never figure out if it is me or my therapist, who is also a male (i am female.) a girlfriend of mine mentioned to me that it seems i am really hard on my therapist. so, i told him that in session last week. he asked if i thought i was being hard on him, i did. i then asked him if i was being hard on him and he told me that he would be lying if he said no. he said that this relationship has been very hard on him however he is willing to handle it. i caught a look in his eye that looked like he was going to cry. it only then hit me that i could have this effect on my therapist. it was a good reminder that i can have this effect on people and it was a reminder that he is human. maybe you can ask him about how/why he has these boundries and to describe his thought process when he goes through them. it might help you to get over some of the pissed off feelings that i know we have all felt.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 13, 2005, at 19:28:54
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by tarabara on December 13, 2005, at 16:10:29
tarabara, thank you so much for posting. I can't adequately express what it means to me to know that you know what it's like.
I went to my appt. today but I couldn't bring it up. I think he was trying to reach out to me but I was having none of it because I just can't tell if it's safe. That hot and cold, as you said.
But you know what it's like. And you asked. Your exchange with your therapist was so poignant. One of those sacred moments.
I will really think about what you said. I will try to ask him about the boundaries. Thank you tarabara for helping me. I hope this doesn't sound excessive but I feel like you saved me today.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 13, 2005, at 19:30:51
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » LauraBeane, posted by annierose on December 10, 2005, at 20:11:27
I couldn't talk about it yet but you helped me not to cancel. Thanks, annierose.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 13, 2005, at 19:31:57
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by LauraBeane on December 13, 2005, at 19:30:51
Posted by tarabara on December 13, 2005, at 23:17:17
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long) » tarabara, posted by LauraBeane on December 13, 2005, at 19:28:54
i'm so glad i could help. i know what it's like. therapy has driven me crazy and i realized that i may have driven my therapist a little crazy too. he has admitted that he has stretched his boundaries for me already such as giving me 5-10 extra minutes, returning my emails which are often freakout emails.
interestingly, today i finally saw a psychiatrist who i could really talk to. i sometimes feel funny talking to my therapist about how much i obsess over stuff and how i get so hot and cold about it. i make an effort but sometimes i just keep it to myself. anyway, i talked to this psychiatrist for about and hour and he suspects i have bipolar II. NEVER would have thought of it on my own and i love to deconstruct my therapy. what i'm trying to get at is the psychiatrist gave me an outlet to freely discuss some compulsive feelings i have been having in therapy which lead to a discussion of compulsive feelings i've had all my life. it was interesting. maybe this was the first time i was able to be honest with a psychiatrist. anyway, it's an outlet. are you seeing a psychiatrist as well?
Posted by LauraBeane on December 14, 2005, at 13:25:08
In reply to Re: Forced distance (long), posted by tarabara on December 13, 2005, at 23:17:17
How amazing that you just met this psychiatrist and clicked. Did your therapist recommend him or did you go some other route? Connecting with a psychiatrist has got to be so valuable, I know a lot of people struggle to find one they can talk to. I would say it's more than an outlet because he's giving you so much back and it's got to help to have fresh eyes looking at things with you. I know I've been helped so much by other people sharing here. Anyway, I've not been to a psychiatrist but my therapist is talking to me about ADs and if I decide to do that then I guess he'll refer me for the meds.
So what happens now about the possible bipolar II? I have a close family member who's bipolar and it was really, really tough until she finally got diagnosed. Now she is much happier and healthier and much more self-aware. I laughed at your phrase "I love to deconstruct my therapy," I think I love to do that too! But until now I've kept the debriefing in my own head, not having many like-minded friends at the moment.
You mention compulsive feelings. I don't know if this is the same thing but what brought me back into therapy was I couldn't stop thinking about a particular family issue. I thought about it over and over and examined it from all angles and tried to play it out in every way possible if only I had done this, suppose I had said that, why do I deserve this, etc. etc. Of course the damage was done by then and there was nothing at all I could do anymore, but still I could not let it go. It really took over. The therapist I see now got me past that somehow and now it's like a dream that happened to somebody else. So intense. It's scary to me to think about getting stuck back there if I hadn't met him to help pull me out.
I have been seeing my therapist for 2 1/2 years, how about you?
Posted by tarabara on December 15, 2005, at 20:34:28
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?* » tarabara, posted by LauraBeane on December 14, 2005, at 13:25:08
i'm sorry it took so long to get back to you. i've had a lousy few days.
about the pdoc, i just stumbled upon him. i heard his name around town but he had left town and basically moved about 25 miles away. he just seemed to be hip to everything. very insightful. he was also really knowledgeable of the psychotherapy angle. he asked me about karma. ???
i'm going to start treatment for the bipolar II and titrate to a prescribed amount and then wean off of the Effexor and Wellbutrin which i keep reading can induce major manic stuff. GREAT!
the famial link w/ bipolar is one of the few things that psychiatrists are sure of. is it a first degree relative sibling/parent? if so, there's a good chance. however, if you are coping without meds, i urge you to keep it up.
the family issue you describe is definitly compulsion. compulsive overeating, purging, shopping, etc. i am also very impulsive, as far as going on last minute trips, to faraway places, etc.
i've been seeing my therapist for 1 year. i saw him once and then didn't come back until 5 months later. i didn't mention my rape for another 4 months, and every single week it seems like all i struggle with is trust issues. EVERY week. i will leave on a good note and then by that evening i'll write him a crabby email taking it all back. did you have the ups and downs like this? trust issues? how did you get past it?
Posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 0:21:28
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?*, posted by tarabara on December 15, 2005, at 20:34:28
The psych doc sounds great. Smart & hip, you can't get better than that. No referral, you stumbled on him on your own? Very cool. Maybe a turn of good karma... My therapist is cool too (but that seems to be more common among therapists than psychiatrists? I think). He rejects karma in favor of chaos theory. I'm not convinced.
About the bipolar II, he doesn't think I am but that I'm depressed. The family member is my mom so yeah, it's close. So that was compulsive thinking. Good to know, thanks. I don't have an overeating thing but the opposite.
I give you a lot, a lot of credit for going back into therapy. I can so understand walking out. You are much more educated about therapy than I am and I've been going more than twice as long. I do get freaked out at times and leave voicemails that say things like, "I'm calling to tell you that I want you to leave me alone." (He would never give me his e-mail address, wish I had it but probably a good thing.) right now I've decided that he doesn't care about me at all because of the way he pulled away. I think it's all a construct and he is manipulating me and I am a fool. blah blah blah. . So yes, I have trust issues too. I guess it's gotta build day by day and takes a lot of time. Seems to me that considering what you've been through, it would be cause for concern if you completely trusted him at this early stage of the game... To me the after and the in-between times really hard. It's hard to believe in someone when I can't look him in the eye to see.
I am so sorry about the rape. I am not dealing with that. I wish there was a way I could offer some comfort. It just never should have happened to you.
Posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 6:34:08
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?* » tarabara, posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 0:21:28
Hey I hope that last part is OK to say. I meant to sound more gentle. I'm not used to posting much.
Posted by tarabara on December 16, 2005, at 7:28:14
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?* » LauraBeane, posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 6:34:08
don't worry. i took it in a nice way.
well, it seems like we have similar boundry issues. it is soooo hard. i know. EVERY week i go through it and i beat up on my therapist. i think it meant a lot to my therapist for me to at least during a moment of clarity recognize that and tell him that i recognize that and tell him that i'm genuinely sorry about it. he then told me that it is ok and that he is equipped to handle it. every once and awhile we have these moments of connection and then i continue to be crazy and he continues to try to steer me in a direction. he doesn't seem to be as deliberate in his moods as your therapist but i think because of the intensity of the situation, it happens. my therpist is not quite sure that he is completely on board with the bipolar II diagnosis either. it's hard to explain what takes over your brain. in a way, i feel like my pdoc understood these severe mood swings without me having to explain and i feel like my therapist does not and he in a way wants to "see" the mania and that's what i often hide, don't talk about, self medicate or maybe i don't have it which then makes me just think i'm crazy. i'm meeting with him today and it's the first day in about 2 1/2 months that i'm going to try to go to session without smoking a bunch of pot first. this is a big deal because maybe he'll truly see how volatile i am. he knows i came to 1 session stoned because he once told me that i seemed relatively calm. i told him it was because i was stoned. he wasn't thrilled but said he understood. what he doesn't understand is i started this behavior about 2 weeks before that instance and then had been doing it ever since. he asked me the next time i went in and i said no, even though i was and he never asked me again. he used to go to dead shows. i thought he would be able to tell but i guess i pull it off well. so, today, i get to tell him that i've been stoned for the past 2-3 months in therapy. i can't wait. ugh..... i actually wrote him an email yesterday and told him that i was going to really try to come to session sober which begs him to ask me a question. i told him that he needs to confront me on this. he said he would. oh boy. i can't wait. i'll need some xanax on hand because i dont think i can light up in his office on campus.
are you in academia?
Posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 22:08:21
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?*, posted by tarabara on December 16, 2005, at 7:28:14
tarabara, I answered this in a babblemail.
Posted by tarabara on December 17, 2005, at 21:47:23
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?* » tarabara, posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 22:08:21
i guess i need to figure out/sign up for babble mail.
Posted by tarabara on December 17, 2005, at 22:28:47
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?* » tarabara, posted by LauraBeane on December 16, 2005, at 22:08:21
um, maybe i'm just tired but i cannot for the life of me figure out how to get to babblemail. help!
Posted by LauraBeane on December 18, 2005, at 8:42:03
In reply to Re: Forced distance - *Trigger?*, posted by tarabara on December 17, 2005, at 22:28:47
Oh sorry to make this so hard! I think you just check your regular email. I've never done babblemail before either so we'll see if it works.
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