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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 22:32:18
Well... That session wasn't so good. And it seems that I'm now onto fortnightly sessions too. She has started to make regular claims that she is all full up for next week.
And she wanted to talk about p-doc and those emails... And I didn't. I don't see that there is any point. I think I am doing alright with coping with them.
I don't understand how sessions can just be crap sometimes.
I guess I'm supposed to take responsibility for them.
My part. What could I have done differently?
I don't think I care anymore.
This is sh*t.
So much for my feeling better :-(
Posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 22:43:51
In reply to sigh, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 22:32:18
(((((alexandra)))) This must be a bad therapy week or something. I think all T's got together and had a plan on how to make their clients mad at them this week as some sort of experiment. I am sorry you are going through all of this. Sometimes therapy is such a pain. It makes you wonder if you are better off without it. Try to have a good night and 4th if ya can. I think there are a lot of us in the same boat this week.
I don't know what else to say because I had a bad therapy this week and quit on him, so I know I am not much help other than to give a little hug if that is okay. ((((hug))))
Posted by Shortelise on July 4, 2005, at 0:27:16
In reply to sigh, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 22:32:18
I don't think "being full up for next week" is a very transparent method for cutting back sessions. I would need to talk about it. Clearly.
ShortE
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 1:24:48
In reply to Re: sigh, posted by happyflower on July 3, 2005, at 22:43:51
Mmm. It is hard to know. We talked a little bit last time about being stuck between a rock and a hard place with respect to my needing to be able to talk about stuff that is hard and my needing to be able to continue functioning so as to meet my work committments. I have a lot of work on over the next couple weeks especially. Maybe she wanted to give me the chance to do that and then we can have a session. I don't know. I'm not a mind reader. But I am starting to think that it is a little too much of a coincidence that she has discovered she is full up all the week after having seen me :-( Maybe they are putting pressure on her because they are only meant to see people for a max of three sessions and I've been seeing her most of this year.
I don't know.
Maybe she thought my reluctance to talk about the emails was more about my not wanting to get into anything. But it wasn't about that - it was about me thinking that I have reached a satisfactory understanding of the situation for the time being.Who knows.
I'll ask her next time...
Posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2005, at 8:52:07
In reply to Re: sigh, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 1:24:48
Not getting the help you need seems to be a pattern for you.
Please ask very specifically about her schedule - why has it changed all of the sudden? Tell her that you feel like you are too much for her. I think that these feelings need to be discussed in detail (which is hard when you are only seeing her every other week ARGH!).
This seems to be an important pattern for you.
Posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 12:15:07
In reply to sigh, posted by alexandra_k on July 3, 2005, at 22:32:18
Is it possible that you find it extremely hard to trust people? Perhaps that is why you are having problems with therapy.
And it is quite likely because you are extremely intelligent, that you end up seeing things a lot. Maybe that is acting against your mental health and happiness.
I have always thought that you understand things a LOT. But find it quite perplexing why you are not able to be happy.. Forgive me for saying this, but you might want to try to live more from feelings instead of living all up in the head, and maybe that would make you happy. (No offense meant, just what I observed)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 17:11:12
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by fallsfall on July 4, 2005, at 8:52:07
> Not getting the help you need seems to be a pattern for you.
Yup.
I'm a bit wary of pushing her away... I'm not sure about the change in schedule. I guess it is related to the time of the academic year. I have told her that I'm a bit worried that she is out of her depth with me. I can't remember exactly how I phrased that. I tried to be a bit diplomatic but I think I was a little too transparant because she launched into a post-modernist critique of the medical model...
But it is hard.
Maybe I'll see how things go a little bit next time.
I remembe now that she emailed me Friday to change our session from Tuesday to Monday and I said that would be better for me cause I had had a sh*t week. Then she found I had a lot of work on. So maybe she is trying to respect that.We have to work out how much to push and how much to back off.
I think that is probably what the problem is.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 17:15:04
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 12:15:07
> Is it possible that you find it extremely hard to trust people? Perhaps that is why you are having problems with therapy.
Yeeeeeeeeeees. Trusting people is hard :-(
When I am in a bad mood and the whole world seems opressive and malevolent then logic can be used to paint a very black picture indeed. Sometimes I do talk myself round in these head circles. And I have to be careful with respect to 'explaining' versus 'justifying' too. And rationalising. And using reason to avoid emotions.I don't like emotions :-(
I wish I didn't have any.
IMO emotions are my biggest problem.
I don't understand them.
I don't understand why I feel so much pain.They terrify the hell out of me.
Posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 17:20:35
In reply to Re: sigh » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 17:15:04
>>I don't like emotions :-(
>>I wish I didn't have any.That is probably what your problem is.. I had the same problem too a while back.. I pretended I would be able to do anything, break away from anyone, not care about anyone, I can always manage to be by myself, I don't need anyone etc..
But I failed. It is like trying to say I don't like oxygen and I can live without it. You just can't.
But what you can perhaps do is to try to feel a little - instead of analyzing and branding and rationalizing and explaining your emotions, just allow yourself to really feel it. Little by little perhaps.. it might get overwhelming for some time, but I think eventually you might learn to control it.
Posted by Damos on July 4, 2005, at 17:59:39
In reply to Re: sigh » fallsfall, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 17:11:12
Hi Alex,
Sorry yesterday didn't go so well. A bad session wasn't what you needed right now.
Sounds like there could be a number of things going on here, none of which will be easy for either of you to surface and work through.
On here side; there is no doubt she is under added pressure at the moment because of the time of year. She is probably also experiencing some self doubt about her ability to help you and the 'launching in to the critique' may have been a defensive reaction to doubting her own competence. You may well be right that she is also experiencing pressure from the uni about seeing you too much and this is conflicting with her seemingly (from past posts) strong desire to try and help you. And based on your previous discussions about needing to navigate around the hard stuff to enable you to get things done, this also is a problem for her knowing that x happened and you said you feel sh*t doesn't tell her that yep this hurts and is hard but needs to be talked about now, or it hurts and is hard but I'm okay with it at the moment and I can't afford to go back there right now.
On your side there are a bunch of bad T and p-doc experiences and your self beliefs related to those experiences. There's also your intelligence and knowledge of the subject. There's your sensitivity to when things 'just aint right'. The things you just can't talk about because you need to keep functioning and get stuff done. There's your doubts about her ability to help you. Your feelings about hurting her feelings. Your feeling about if not her then what. And probably a whole bunch else besides.
Imagine that the two of you are standing on one side of a minefield and you both need to get to the other side. You can't just charge in and hope to make it across, cause the chances are one or both of you will be hurt. You need a means for detecting them and a plan to find them and flag them because there may be times when you need to retrace your steps. Working well together doesn't just happen (in most cases) it's a process. The accepted phases of team development for example are Forming, Storming, Norming, Performing and Mourning. Storming is normal and necessary. It's the getting all the stuff out in the open phase. You can't work out how to work together (Norming) or really begin to see consistent results (Performing) without it. Some teams never get out of it. You can be a team of 2.
Sorry, this has turned into a gibbering ramble so I'll shut up.
(((((Alex)))))
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 19:23:15
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 17:20:35
> That is probably what your problem is..
Hmm.
>I pretended I would be able to do anything, break away from anyone, not care about anyone, I can always manage to be by myself, I don't need anyone etc..
Pretending??? Whos pretending ;-)
(I'm half serious here)...
I need to be a bit careful. It is hard for me.I think... I am a bit better at feeling emotions. When they are within 'normal' range. When they get too extreme or intense... Well... I have to do what I can to shut them down. For my own safety. T thinks missing time is about me avoiding certain emotional states. I don't know. Possibly. But then you wouldn't think I'd be here, experiencing them as much as I do. I don't know. I think... Gently does it. This really is hard for me.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 19:31:06
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on July 4, 2005, at 17:59:39
Hello.
I was wondering whether you were still around. Glad that you are :-)>She is probably also experiencing some self doubt about her ability to help you and the 'launching in to the critique' may have been a defensive reaction to doubting her own competence.
Yeah. I think so. It actually turned into a really interesting discussion... But side-tracked from therapy rather, I guess. I have a couple friends in the Master of Councelling program and have been reading some of that post-modernist critique. There are some good points - but then there is a middle way too. Actually... It probably was useful to talk about that. Part of sorting out what I want from therapy and how I want things to go etc. It is a kind of mixed blessing... That she is willing to listen to what I do want and think I need without the threat of termination if I don't tell her what she wants to hear. For the first time in my life I can actually be honest there. But... I'm not sure that she can deliver... But... I guess when it really does come down to it I just want someone to be able to walk with me for a while. And I do believe she can be really good there.
>knowing that x happened and you said you feel sh*t doesn't tell her that yep this hurts and is hard but needs to be talked about now, or it hurts and is hard but I'm okay with it at the moment and I can't afford to go back there right now.
Yeah. I tried to tell her the latter was the case. But I don't think she believed me. I think she thought I was trying to wheedle out of talking about something that I really needed to talk about. Maybe I'll print off the last email I sent him and give that to her. Then to say that I think I've sorted it to my satisfaction. But that I realise it will probably come up at some point - and then I'll tell her.
Yeah. There is a lot of stuff going on...Yeah, the minefield analogy sounds about right :-)
> Sorry, this has turned into a gibbering ramble so I'll shut up.
Not at all.
Good to hear from you.
Thanks.
Posted by Damos on July 4, 2005, at 22:02:29
In reply to Re: sigh » Damos, posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 19:31:06
Thanks. Yeah still around. Tend to go kinda silent when stuff isn't going so well. But always here for you.
=0)
Posted by alexandra_k on July 4, 2005, at 22:16:02
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by Damos on July 4, 2005, at 22:02:29
Whats up for you?????
I have to go do some work now...
:-(
But I'll be back tomorrow
(So long as I go do some work now...)
Hang in there.
Posted by alexandra_k on July 5, 2005, at 2:51:29
In reply to Re: sigh » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on July 4, 2005, at 12:15:07
> ...find it quite perplexing why you are not able to be happy..
I'm happy sometimes.
Not very often to be sure.
But I don't ever remember feeling that before DBT.
Sometimes my memory fails me.
I probably need to take more time when it isn't so much a feeling of joy but the absence of the kick you in the guts stabbing throbbing wounding pain that will not be ignored. I probably need to take the time to notice that it is not there. Instead of focusing on the dull ache focus on the fact that it receeds. That I can direct my attention away from it and it isn't screaming at me. And it allows itself to be ignored and forgotten. If only I take the time to realise that the stabbing throbbing wounding is not present and I can be happy there. In that moment. If I'll just take the time.I'm used to focusing on the background.
The background pain that never leaves
(Cannot leave)
Because it has to be there to justify treatment.Maybe the only way I'll get better is to move on.
Maybe moving on is the way to have it bite me in the *ss.I dunno.
Things get bad soon enough.
Try to find happiness in the moments of respite.
Posted by fallsfall on July 5, 2005, at 9:30:33
In reply to Re: sigh, posted by alexandra_k on July 5, 2005, at 2:51:29
I'm used to focusing on the background.
The background pain that never leaves
(Cannot leave)
Because it has to be there to justify treatment.This is such a kicker... You can't get better without treatment, but if you get better you lose treatment. I have been fighting this for 1 1/2 years. Finally my therapist has convinced me that he won't kick me out if I'm "better" (he even said that therapy gets *better* when I get better). That he will continue to document my case in an honest way, but that he believes that due to my history I warrant a diagnosis for a long, long time. What irony that in order to get better you have to stay sick.
This is the end of the thread.
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