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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 21:16:10
I don't know.
I was supposed to think about it and let her know last time.
But I don't know.
I don't know what to say.
Maybe it is because usually those kind of questions have a hidden agenda behind them
The damned if you do damned if you don't I'm going to terminate you no matter what you say kind of agenda.
But I know it isn't about that this time
But I still can't think of anything to say.So she asked me about them. Their names. A little bit of that. P-doc was kind of interested in that. How many there were and what their names were. Info for the file I guess. But she seemed most interested in their relationship to me. And their relationship to each other. It is hard... It gets complicated... I told her mostly about one of them. It is hard to explain. He doesn't make things easy to talk about either. I think he does that on purpose.
She asked if I felt okay talking about that. I said yup. Thats fine. I feel alright.
But now I don't
Now I don't
I've been feeling funny the past few days.
Since I saw her
Yup.
Feeling flat and lifeless and this nagging kind of intense boredom or something. This intense kind of panic welling up inside me is kind of how it feels.I don't feel so good.
I finally emailed p-doc to know where I'm at on the wait list for another p-doc.I don't feel so good.
But...
I'm sure I'll be ok.
Posted by pinkeye on June 26, 2005, at 21:31:30
In reply to What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 21:16:10
What do you think you want to work on??
Posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2005, at 21:35:52
In reply to What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 21:16:10
alex,
It sounds like talking about that is really opening your inner world to someone else. And that has got to be a scary thing, even if you trust the other person. And it sounds like trust is still developing in some ways, between you.I hope you can go at your own pace. I suspect that sessions might be very draining, though, so maybe try to work in some self-care after?
gg
Posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 22:17:19
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on June 26, 2005, at 21:31:30
I don't know...
Thats the problem.Usually the question comes up about the time when someone has decided they want to terminate me.
Or the question comes up when you are being interviewed to see whether the t wants to work with you or not.
In the first case there really isn't anything I can say. They have already made their decision. After being caught there so many times my mind just goes blank now.
With respect to the second kind of case I am pretty good at coming up with all the 'right' things to say. But... I don't know.
Posted by pinkeye on June 26, 2005, at 22:21:33
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » pinkeye, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 22:17:19
Maybe you should try to write a journal - every day, at the end of the day, just write couple of pages of everything that bothered you that day. Just write whatever comes to your mind wihtout thinking too much. Maybe after a while, you might have an idea of what is really bothering you.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 22:22:56
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2005, at 21:35:52
Yeah. It is hard. Especially starting with him. But I guess thats the logical place to start...
:-(
I don't know how I'm going with trusting her...
I do in a way.
But then I don't in other ways.
I really don't think she'll be able to do a lot if the bottom falls out of my world.
If I need to go to hospital or whatever.
So I need to be really really careful.
And that is there in the back of my mind.
That I have to be careful.I'm not sure what I need to do with respect to self-care. I spend so much time stuffing around as it is... I guess I went out with my officemates after the session. We went out to dinner and then chatted about how our part of the university is rapidly going down the toilet :-(
I don't know what to do.???
Posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 22:28:43
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » alexandra_k, posted by pinkeye on June 26, 2005, at 22:21:33
Yeah. I don't have too much trouble talking with her in sessions. Thats a little odd in itself. Usually I have trouble cause I like the t to be fairly directive and most won't. So we used to sit in silence. And they didn't like that. With her I seem to find it only too easy to get caught up in the crappiness of my week. But the trouble with that is that it is constant. I'm not sure how useful it is to talk about that stuff because I find that (mostly) I can deal with it ok by myself anyway.
But... I guess that there are general patterns in that stuff that would emerge. But... I don't know. I guess I'm trying to move away from talking about that kind of stuff.
To talk about the voices. I have never really talked about them properly before. Just details for my file. That is all. They used to think they were psychotic so I wasn't supposed to talk about them or think about them I was just supposed to try and distract myself from them and take my meds. But not anymore not anymore.
Posted by Jazzed on June 26, 2005, at 23:13:07
In reply to What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 21:16:10
((((hugs)))) Sounds very threatening, I'm sorry you're going through this.
Have you tried telling her that her questioning makes you feel that she's trying to find a way to terminate you, and that you're very afraid of that?
Jazzy
Posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 23:55:38
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » alexandra_k, posted by Jazzed on June 26, 2005, at 23:13:07
I know that she isn't trying to look for an excuse to terminate me. That it isn't about that at all. But my knowing that doesn't seem to help me figure out what to say to her. Maybe part of it is that I think that she should know what we should be doing in therapy sessions. If she doesn't know that much then maybe I shouldn't go... But I'm not sure that that is quite right either. I think it will be ok.
I just got my period.
I think... That probably accounts for my mood over the last few days. I really should get a diary or something and try and record my cycles. Maybe even try and record my mood (which is really really hard for me to do). See just how cycle related it is.I think...
It might be quite a lot.
I wish I could remember to take pills.
I have been trying to remember to take evening primrose oil - with little success... Though I am tempted to down the whole jar now (don't worry I won't).Off to bed
(groan)
Posted by cricket on June 27, 2005, at 8:27:21
In reply to What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 21:16:10
Hi Alexandra,
I know what you mean. My T and I have been letting the voices talk for themselves, one per session.
And it is complicated and I never know what they're going to say. I had a real meltdown for a couple of weeks and my T had to go back and apologize to one and tell him how important he is and how much I need him. It's even complicated talking about it.
Anyway, it's taken us years to get to this point and I am still very hesitant. I wasn't able to talk at all last session. Now I'm thinking why the h*** are we doing this anyway? Only that they keep shouting inside my head when I am at therapy and I can't even answer one question because the noise level is so high.
Please continuing posting. Maybe we can help each other.
Posted by fallsfall on June 27, 2005, at 13:07:48
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » gardenergirl, posted by alexandra_k on June 26, 2005, at 22:22:56
Talk about this:
"So I need to be really really careful.
And that is there in the back of my mind.
That I have to be careful."Good luck, and be good to yourself.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:41:58
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by cricket on June 27, 2005, at 8:27:21
> I know what you mean.
:-)
>My T and I have been letting the voices talk for themselves, one per session.
Oh. Really? I don't want them to talk. I will 'convey' their thoughts sometimes. But I really don't want them to say anything. Do you remember the sessions? Do you remember what they say?
Oh yes, they yell. A lot. In therapy too. Sometimes it is really hard to think what I am going to say, or think about how I feel or whatever because they are so loud.> Please continuing posting. Maybe we can help each other.
:-)
Hmm.
I have talked to my t a bit about what it means to me to get better. Sometimes... Sometimes I don't hear them for a while. A few days. A week. I manage to convince myself that it is all in my imagination and really they aren't there, and they never were, and I'm just making up stories or something. Then they come back full force and I can't ignore them. But sometimes they really do seem to just disappear. Thats what getting better means to me. That they just disappear and go away forever.:-(
Thats supposed to be a bad way of looking at it.
:-(
But I do want them to go away.I miss a lot of time.
A lot.
And usually... I miss the knowledge that I've been missing time, if you get what I mean. Just think that it is a little odd that I've been sleeping 13 hours of the day... Or things just get a little hazy... My memory is fairly appalling.They talk to me a bit.
In the last session we talked about my relationship mostly to one of them in particular. But little bits about a couple of others. How my relationship to them was similar / different.
And I got to talking about how sometimes I miss time.
And about how sometimes I am aware of their presence.
And about how sometimes it is like I am standing a little behind myself
Watching them do stuff...
I don't like that.
:-(
Do you get that?
Posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:50:13
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » alexandra_k, posted by fallsfall on June 27, 2005, at 13:07:48
Hey.
We have talked about that a bit.
She said she is a bit concerned because she knows I need to be able to keep functioning to do my study etc. And that that makes it hard because I need to talk about hard stuff and that is going to impact on me outside therapy, but that I can't really afford to have it impact on me outside therapy too much and so we have something of a dilemma.I think it is going to take some time to find the balance between doing work and not pushing too hard. I guess that will be something that changes over time too. I've had a bit of experience with that with one of my other t's. We got fairly good at it. Basically, she would push me. Until I told her that I needed her to back off. It can be hard when I think I'm ok - and it is not until I leave that I realise that I'm not. But that is something that I need to get better at doing and I guess I will over time.
Maybe thats what I need to say.
That I'd rather she did push me.
I'd rather that than leave feeling like she didn't want to do any proper work with me :-(
I'd rather she push
And it is up to me to figure it out.
And, I don't know.
Maybe she'll start to have some sort of idea too.
I guess the other one did. Sometimes she would say 'I think we should talk about something else now because even though you seem fine now that is something that is likely to impact on you during the week and you have a bit of stuff to be doing this week...'.
She was usually spot on.I am willing to work.
But when things get hard my defenses do come up.
But I'd rather be there, I'd rather be there and working on stuff
Than going round and round in circles about the general crappiness of my week.Thanks for your response. I think I will talk about this more next time :-)
Posted by cricket on June 28, 2005, at 9:17:35
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on June 27, 2005, at 19:41:58
I do remember bits of the sessions where they talk. It's scary because then I am the one yelling in their head to shut up and some of them (not all) seem to be very good at ignoring me. So I remember best the parts where I feel like they are lying or being offensive.
I definitely understand how you don't want them to talk. I don't want them to either but I've been in therapy for 3 years with this doctor and instead of opening up I was getting quieter and quieter because there was such conflicts amongst all of us about what to say and what not to say and how to say it, etc.
Lots of times I want mine to go away too because I want to be "normal" at least for a little bit and see how everyone else experiences their minds. But then I get afraid. What if there is no me left?
Mine don't ever really go away. It's more like a radio, they're always there but sometimes I don't have to tune in and once in a great while I even lose the frequency on one of them. As far as making them up, yeah I think that all the time. I even tell them that. "I just made you up." Unfortunately they don't often listen. "Well you made you up too," some of them say back.
Does getting better mean they go away? What does your therapist think? Has she said what she thinks yet?
>And about how sometimes I am aware of their >presence.
>And about how sometimes it is like I am standing >a little behind myself
>Watching them do stuff...
>I don't like that.
>:-(
>Do you get that?Yes, I do get it. It is just like that sometimes.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 28, 2005, at 19:26:45
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » alexandra_k, posted by cricket on June 28, 2005, at 9:17:35
Mmm. Its very rare for me that I'm observing them. Mostly I miss time. I guess thats why I'm so very scaired of them coming out in therapy. I'm terrified of what they are going to say. And I have to be really careful in therapy anyway. To try and make the t want to help me. Want to work with me. There is no way I'm going to let them come out and stuff things up there. I do a fairly good job of stuffing it up myself much of the time. But there is no way I'm going to let them do that.
I know what you mean about getting quieter and quieter in therapy over time. That is a pattern for me as well. To start with I can look at the therapist. Over time I cannot. To start with I can talk to them in a chatty way. Over time I cannot. I think... In a way it is progress. Not that they see it that way. But I think... It just might be.
I get what you mean about the conflict too. The yelling. It really is horrible. I worry about disappearing forever sometimes. Sometimes I get really afraid that I'll lose time and I'll never come back. Other times that is what I want more than anything in the world. If it really was possible... For me to just disappear forever and leave them to it... Then I would go willingly.Mine never used to give me any peace. They were fairly constant ever since I was around 13 or 14. Since then they have learned to go out of range at strategic moments. They were silent for 2 weeks after I started taking Seroquel. Strategically. So I could be discharged. Once I left hospital they came back full force. Sometimes they are silent for a couple weeks when I start working with a new clinician. So they are not on the agenda. So I don't feel like a liar by ommitting voices in that initial assessment. So that I don't talk about them. Yeah, it is like a radio.
> Does getting better mean they go away? What does your therapist think? Has she said what she thinks yet?
Hmm. I think she is taking the fairly standard line. Integration. It is supposed to be about integration. I guess thats why she is trying to get me thinking of the times when I am aware of them when they are in control. Co-consciousness. Thats supposed to be the first step on the way to integration. I'm not co-conscious very much. At least... I'm not aware of being co-conscious with them very much.
What does your t say about what getting better means? What do you think of that?
Posted by cricket2 on June 29, 2005, at 15:22:02
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions » cricket, posted by alexandra_k on June 28, 2005, at 19:26:45
Hi Alex,
So far my therapist is taking a middle way. He hasn't talked about integration at all, but he does say he would like more democracy - everyone has a voice and rights. And he wants the kids to grow up.
I think it is easier for me now because he's really worked hard to normalize how I think about them and talk about them. I don't feel anymore like he's humoring me or amusing himself by talking about them, a "let's see how crazy she really is" kind of thing. Although I certainly did a year ago, even 6 months ago.
If anyone had overheard our last session, they would think we were talking about a real person. Of course, I still want to scream, "but he's fake."
So easier for right now but tomorrow who knows?
I know that you are searching for a therapist that can help you with this. I hope you find one soon. I wish you lived in my area, so you could see mine :)
Posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 3:39:35
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by cricket2 on June 29, 2005, at 15:22:02
Yeah, democracy is good. I think my t is starting to notice me flinch when she talks about integration. I think it suprised her a little last time how I said that sometimes I do have a bit of peace from them and that to me that was what it would mean to get better - to have that kind of peace from them all the time. I think... Its probably unsustainable :-(
I don't talk about the kid. Its not safe.
I think it isn't all just about integration anymore... There was some kind of 'movement' that started up: 'the right to remain multiple' or something like that. Not sure that it had much to reccomend it except the thought that it was a personal decision as to whether people want to integrate or live in a democracy. That t's shouldn't pressure people.. I dunno.. I dunno..
Thanks for your sentiment about your t.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 3:42:54
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by cricket2 on June 29, 2005, at 15:22:02
You should post something to admin about how you used to post under a different name.
Posted by Dinah on June 30, 2005, at 8:13:50
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessions, posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 3:39:35
> Not sure that it had much to reccomend it except the thought that it was a personal decision as to whether people want to integrate or live in a democracy. That t's shouldn't pressure people.. I dunno.. I dunno..
>I imagine it had something to recommend it to the people who advocated it.
Posted by cricket2 on June 30, 2005, at 8:38:26
In reply to Re: PS, posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 3:42:54
> You should post something to admin about how you used to post under a different name.
>
>
I sent an e-mail to Dr. Bob a couple of days ago and got no response. Perhaps I should try admin.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 17:51:46
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessio » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 30, 2005, at 8:13:50
> I imagine it had something to recommend it to the people who advocated it.
Sure.
> > Not sure that it had much to reccomend it except the thought that it was a personal decision as to whether people want to integrate or live in a democracy. That t's shouldn't pressure people.. I dunno.. I dunno..
And I guess that was the main thought.
IMO the problem came with them trying to normalise multiplicity. Have to solve the legal problem first. Why the hell would someone choose to remain this way when you are supposed to take moral and legal responsibility for actions that you find it really really really hard to own because they seem so alien?
I think its called the 'movement' for a reason...
I'm a bit (a lot) wary.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 17:52:21
In reply to Re: What do I think we should do in therapy sessio » alexandra_k, posted by Dinah on June 30, 2005, at 8:13:50
Sorry Dinah, I mean to say:
It is a political minefield.
Posted by alexandra_k on June 30, 2005, at 17:53:23
In reply to Re: PS, posted by cricket2 on June 30, 2005, at 8:38:26
Sorry - I didn't mean to sound instructive.
I think it says in the FAQ to post something to admin.
It saves people wondering whether you are the same poster as Cricket or not.
Sorry
This is the end of the thread.
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