Psycho-Babble Psychology Thread 480695

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Re: I have a question (**trigger**) sunny10

Posted by Tamar on April 6, 2005, at 16:03:26

In reply to Re: I have a question, posted by sunny10 on April 6, 2005, at 13:40:42

This is such an interesting question. I know the subject of recovering memories is hotly debated, especially when hypnotism is involved. If I were you I'd be very cautious about trying to recover your memories by hypnotism. But of course, I'm not you, and you can make your own decisions!

The reason I'm so interested in your question is because I'm certain that some kind of molestation happened to me in my childhood (which is why I added the trigger in the subject line)... But I don't actually remember it. I remember many other things that point to it, but I don't remember the actual event.

I keep wondering if I'm adding it up all wrong; if there was nothing really, and all the stuff I actually do remember is insignificant. But there's just so much that I can't believe I'm imagining it.

I looked into the possibilty of hypnotism, but it does seem to be associated with the whole false memory syndrome debate, and I really don't want to find myself with memories that aren't reliable. What do you think? Is it worth the risk?

I would definitely try hypnotism for smoking though!

I'm very sorry about your sister. I can imagine that's elicited a whole lot of fallout. I hope it all stays manageable.

Tamar

 

Re: I have a question

Posted by daisym on April 6, 2005, at 16:05:49

In reply to Re: I have a question, posted by NightStar72 on April 6, 2005, at 15:32:57

Sunny,

How do you feel about what your sister told you? Was there any intense reaction, internal supression, suprise or total belief? It is widely believed that sometimes you just *know* -- even if you can't *remember* it.

I don't think therapy is wasted if you are working on issues instead of events or if you are "just" trying to feel better. Not everyone goes into therapy because they are hurting. Lots of times people go in to look at themselves, to make decisions or to work on knowing themselves better. I wish I had done this 20 years ago.

I'm sure you might feel let down if you were abused and it never came out during therapy. But my therapist tells me over and over again that the psyche has its own timeline and you never can be sure why things come up *now*. You just have to respect the self-protection mechanisms and work with them. Pushing is very dangerous.

I'm sorry Sunny, I should remember but I don't. Are you in therapy now? If so, I hope you share all of this with your therapist. If not, you might want to consider it again. Trickles of memories can quickly turn to floods.

Take good care.

 

Re: I have a question sunny10

Posted by fires on April 6, 2005, at 16:57:47

In reply to I have a question, posted by sunny10 on April 6, 2005, at 11:58:10

I suggest you read the following link before making any decisions about your memory:

http://skepdic.com/repressedmemory.html

Good Luck

 

Re: I have a question (**trigger**) Tamar

Posted by antigua on April 6, 2005, at 17:24:24

In reply to Re: I have a question (**trigger**) sunny10, posted by Tamar on April 6, 2005, at 16:03:26

Hello, I don't think I've met you....

I spoke w/my T about hypnotism again today in an effort to bring the csa memories forward. As expected, she was strongly against it because she is afraid that I might not be able to handle what comes up. As much as I want to remember and move on, I can't just make it happen. Since I've been with her for all these years, I'm going to stay away from the hypnosis.

I did find EMDR helpful with some of the memories, though, mainly in how I felt at the time as a very young girl. I now know what she felt surrounding the events, but I'm still missing big chunks of memory.

antigua

 

Re: I have a question sunny10

Posted by Poet on April 6, 2005, at 18:57:56

In reply to I have a question, posted by sunny10 on April 6, 2005, at 11:58:10

Hi sunny10,

My memories of childhood abuse were never buried so deep that I couldn't remember them. I just denied for decades that it ever happened. Kind of misguided self protection.

I got into therapy because I feel that I am a career failure. I still am a career failure, but therapy has helped me to talk about other things: depression, bulimia and CSA. Though I now think of myself as a therapy failure, because it's do hard to talk about all of the above, especially CSA.

If you feel comfortable talking to your sister about what happened to her, it might help you to explore what might have happened to you. Some things are so bad that they get buried even just under the surface enough to deny their existance.

Take care.

Poet

 

Re: I have a question

Posted by Susan47 on April 6, 2005, at 21:15:19

In reply to Re: I have a question sunny10, posted by Poet on April 6, 2005, at 18:57:56

My experience of my messed-up self is as Poet describes a traumatic memory to be; I knew I was messed-up but at the same time I continued to be that because I denied I was that. I knew it, denied it. Knew it, denied. Denial was completely automatic after a time; I don't know when, but quite young in life, I do know that.
I'm realizing, lately, that there's memories I have that I look at once in awhile and I know there's something about them, there's a reason they keep coming up, the same car ride, the same conversation, the same tantrum, the same .. something. And there's memories that're good, and there's ones that I can't describe the flavour of, except that it has fear involved, and I know it's there but not why, and I don't really need to know why either. That's why I think I'm a good candidate for EMDR and from what you've told me about yourself I think you might be as well.

 

Re: I have a question (**trigger**)

Posted by Tamar on April 7, 2005, at 13:54:47

In reply to Re: I have a question (**trigger**) Tamar, posted by antigua on April 6, 2005, at 17:24:24

Hi Antigua. It's nice to meet you.

> I spoke w/my T about hypnotism again today in an effort to bring the csa memories forward. As expected, she was strongly against it because she is afraid that I might not be able to handle what comes up. As much as I want to remember and move on, I can't just make it happen. Since I've been with her for all these years, I'm going to stay away from the hypnosis.

I tend to agree. I think there are all sorts of potential problems with hypnosis.

> I did find EMDR helpful with some of the memories, though, mainly in how I felt at the time as a very young girl. I now know what she felt surrounding the events, but I'm still missing big chunks of memory.

I'm quite curious about EMDR. I've heard other people mention it and it does seem to help them. I'm having a holiday from therapy at the moment, having finished working with my former T about three weeks ago, but I think I'll need to go back for long term therapy at some point, and I'll maybe look into EMDR then. At the moment I'm not being plagued by bad memories, but if that changes I'll certainly be looking into every possible solution.

Thanks for your advice.

Tamar

 

Re: I have a question fires

Posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:04:17

In reply to Re: I have a question sunny10, posted by fires on April 6, 2005, at 16:57:47

Fires, I know how important this topic is to you, and so I wanted to thank you and to express admiration for you for the restrained and sensitive way you communicated your beliefs.

I mean that quite sincerely.

 

Thanks (nm)

Posted by fires on April 12, 2005, at 11:00:14

In reply to Re: I have a question sunny10, posted by fires on April 6, 2005, at 16:57:47

 

Re: thanks everyone

Posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 10:05:20

In reply to Re: I have a question fires, posted by Dinah on April 12, 2005, at 1:04:17

I don't want to actually remember anything... yes, you're all right, that opens up more than I can handle...

I just wish hypnosis could make me believe that I am a better person than I am, I guess...

I am back from my mini-vacation; had to fly back early after my SO tried to strangle me during a stupid argument. I had nowhere else to go to escape him for the night- he was drunk; I was scared.

I am now homeless, so right now it doesn't matter at all about hypnosis...

 

(((((((sunny10)))))))) sunny10

Posted by gardenergirl on April 13, 2005, at 15:10:30

In reply to Re: thanks everyone, posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 10:05:20

Oh dear, that sounds just awful. Do you have somewhere safe to stay temporarily? What a curveball. I'm so sorry you had to go through that. Please take care and let us know how we can help.

Thinking of you.

gg

 

((((((((((sunny10)))))))))) sunny10

Posted by Damos on April 13, 2005, at 16:50:32

In reply to Re: thanks everyone, posted by sunny10 on April 13, 2005, at 10:05:20

I'm so sorry sunny, I can't even begin to imagine how you must be feeling. If I can help in anyway, anyway at all let me know.

(((((sunny)))))

 

Re: update

Posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 8:11:59

In reply to ((((((((((sunny10)))))))))) sunny10, posted by Damos on April 13, 2005, at 16:50:32

he is now apologizing; says he is ashamed of himself- willing to go into counselling. He is not drinking (he is a self-admitted binge drinker... doesn't drink every day, but when he gives himself permission to "make a night of it", he gets out of control)....

I have found an apartment and move in on Saturday (at least my clothes and bathroom stuff that is all in the back of my vehicle at the moment- furniture will come later).

I find myself willing to be a part of couples counselling- as long as he agrees to anger management training/counselling as well. But I am not getting my hopes up too high. I have to be pragmatic and take care of me first.

 

Re: update sunny10

Posted by Damos on April 14, 2005, at 17:12:02

In reply to Re: update, posted by sunny10 on April 14, 2005, at 8:11:59

Dearest Sunny,

I've followed your posts from the time you and your SO met and haven't really said much if anything, and I'm gonna stick to that now as I know you won't want to hear what I'm thinking.

Just remember not let him talk his way out of problems he's behaved himself into. Promise?

Just please, please, please be careful and look after you. No-one deserves what happened to you and there is never ever any excuse. Sorry, don't mean to preach.

(((((sunny10)))))

 

Re: update Damos

Posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 21:00:13

In reply to Re: update sunny10, posted by Damos on April 14, 2005, at 17:12:02

Yes, he has to behave himself out of things he's behaved himself into, right? That makes so much sense. I never saw things quite in that way before but it's so true. Wow. Where'd you get that, did you make that up?

 

Re: update Susan47

Posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:27:19

In reply to Re: update Damos, posted by Susan47 on April 14, 2005, at 21:00:13

> Yes, he has to behave himself out of things he's behaved himself into, right? That makes so much sense. I never saw things quite in that way before but it's so true. Wow. Where'd you get that, did you make that up?

Nah, you can thank Stephen Covey for that gem. Probably the only thing I didn't react with "yeah and you're so totally full of sh*t mate" to.

It is true and I try to be aware of my behaviour every minute of every day, fail often and badly, but know that an apology doesn't excuse the hurt.

There was another thing he said that I can't quite remember right but try to carry with me. Something like "it's not so much that what you did hurt me, but that you didn't care enough not to."

I'm a mess today, I'll try and find it for you when/if I go back to the office.

 

Re: update

Posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 7:49:06

In reply to Re: update Susan47, posted by damos on April 14, 2005, at 22:27:19

yes, Damos and Susan47- I very much realize this.

Once the lease termination meeting occurs on Tuesday at 4:30 in the afternoon, I will have my first clue how this will begin to go on...

I told the landlord that he strangled me during an argument and that I was afraid of him therefore we had to break the lease. I told my SO that I told the landlord that he had hurt me physically during an argument (I'm not sure if I told SO that I mentioned the actual strangling part...it's not that I'm trying to lie- I just simply can't remember).

If this assault is referred to in any way during the meeting, my SO's reaction may be the telling factor. Whether during the meeting or in conversations after the meeting, he will give himself away if he is still in denial and has just been "talking the talk". THEN, if he is still honest (with himself and me) and regretful, I will tell him that I expect BOTH of us to enroll in some kind of anger management class/therapy separately before we can even begin to think about trying to work things out. He must fix these behaviors before anything else can happen between "us". Not just talk about it.

As this is something of a personal attack, though true (you are not perfect- you must do "blank" before we can do "blank"), I am very afraid of this conversation. It is a sort of confrontation- which you both know I am afraid of. He may negate the need for such a conversation based on how he may react to the lease termination meeting, anyway.

Chances are he will break my heart all over again by refusing to do these things... But it doesn't matter- I won't be trying again after this one...

I still truly believe in my heart that he is a good person deep inside- behind the pain and depression of loss (lifestyle, friends, house- everything he gave up to come halfway across the country for me). If he would try to work through his actual feelings instead of burying them under coke or alcohol (part of that lifestyle that he had given up- but not even the good part, he admits), there may be a shot for us.

But he's 36 and may be unwilling to allow someone else to teach him to change (a T, a group leader, whatever). And I'm 37 and if I'm still wrong about what kind of person he is inside (strong enough and willing to work through these things), then I have learned nothing in 20 yrs and probably am just incapable of learning anything at this point.

I am attempting to be optimistic, but must be realistic.

-sunny10

 

Re: update sunny10

Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 9:52:44

In reply to Re: update, posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 7:49:06

I haven't finished reading your post Sunny. You told the landlord he strangled you (not to death, but strangulation is strangulation, look it up). So you told the landlord but you did NOT tell your SO that you told the landlord he strangled you, you told your SO that you told the landlord he HURT you.

Honey, LISTEN UP. If you cannot tell your SO that you are telling people he STRANGLED you, if you have to COUCH it NOW, You are afraid that he will be angry or upset with you if you tell him that he tried to STRANGLE you ... You already know that the truth will upset him. You know he cannot face the truth. He is definitely in denial no matter what he says. Unless he faces the truth, which is that he was thisfar from KILLING you, and unless he can talk to you and professionals about this, drop him. I have been in your shoes and don't be stupid. Please don't ignore the facts to please your SO.

 

Finished Reading

Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 9:58:29

In reply to Re: update, posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 7:49:06

Okay, you and I think remarkably alike. I already knew that but this totally confirms it. You're a smart lady and because your heart is involved you're keeping yourself vulnerable. I'm still with you, sweetie. I'm still with you. But remember he has to come off the coke totally and go into a program and keep going to meetings every single week maybe every day. None of that can ever be ignored. He sounds worth saving, Sunny. And I know you won't lose yourself in this, because you love yourself, right? You need to do that, that's your task in the next year or so. No kidding. So smack me if I'm too outspoken. Here, I'll do it for you ...*SMACK* on the left nicely-rounded bum cheek.

 

Re: Finished Reading

Posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 11:29:24

In reply to Finished Reading, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 9:58:29

I have told him just how much he scared me when he strangled me.... I'm not afraid to tell him that. I told him that "of course I became panicked when the little white dots appeared on the edges of my sight due to lack of oxygen"... I have not sugar-coated what harm he did while talking with him. I am not letting him off the hook that easily!

I just can't remember whether I told him that I told the landlord that he strangled me....

And mostly that's because I was still in panic mode when SO and I discussed it... I have a tendency to slightly disassociate during times of stress and I simply cannot recall exactly what I said when we discussed it.

THAT's where the question in my mind comes from... he knows that I told them that he caused a domestic violence situation and I had to get out. No matter how I WORDED it. He knows that he will be under scrutiny. He knows that he will be viewed as a guilty party.

And frankly, I think he needs to hear this from a third party who doesn't know us. It is never okay to bring violence into an argument. If it was someone he picked a fight with in a bar, they could have pressed charges and he would be in jail! The only reason I didn't bother is because it was behind closed doors and there were no witnesses. And when someone chokes you with their forearm from behind, tightening it with the other arm, it only leaves a red pressure mark that fades quickly... strangling with hands from the front leaves huge marks... I had no proof whatsoever because of the way he did it.

He needs to be clean and sober, and he needs anger management classes.

I am no perfect little princess, either- I could use some anger management classes myself.

 

Re: Finished Reading

Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:00:20

In reply to Re: Finished Reading, posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 11:29:24

Frankly, I don't know how you can ever consider him. I was lucky because the time this happened to me, in different ways, I was never actually dating the men. Twice it was the end of a relationship anyway... and once was someone who was almost a total stranger to me. And I blamed myself, too. For every time. I thought it happened to me because I was stupid. I had a lot of growing to do. Now I think I can spot those people at ten paces. I hope I can. :)

 

Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!

Posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 13:17:26

In reply to Re: Finished Reading, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:00:20

may not even be an issue... things are MUCH worse...

he just called me and told me there was a letter from the rental agent in the mail. The same one we have the meeting with on Tuesday. When I called the owner of the house (landlord), frantic to leave, I had offered to pay him back the second year's commission that he had paid the rental agent (a month's rent) and pay the rent until July 31st to finish out the first year, he said that he understood that was a huge financial deal to me and that he didn't think even that would be necessary.

Now my SO just told me that the letter from the rental agent says that we are responsible for the rent for the entire 15 months left PLUS the commission. A year's more than the owner said wouldn't be necessary!!!

He is freaking out- said he will leave the state and they can just TRY to find him to sue him for his half...

Meanwhile, I sent an email to the rental agent telling her what the landlord had told me and that now she (the rental agent) is saying something even WORSE... I asked her to let me know what was going on- why am I getting two different answers from the two of them- and what exactly is the meeting supposed to be for, then, if it isn't to negotiate as I had been told...

I'm freaking out... that's $22,100 she's talking about!!! PLUS she's demanding that we continue paying utilities through the end of the lease unless they find someone else to rent it...

I am going to have a nervous breakdown now.....

 

Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!

Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:32:44

In reply to Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!, posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 13:17:26

Go to a women's shelter. Get their advice. Pronto. You may have to live there without your SO, get a roommate .. they'll help you. At least with direction. Also seek immediate legal advice, can you get it free? Now is the time to Open your eyes, Open your world, don't shut down by needless fear. Your fear will blind you to possibility. Get the keys away from your SO and move back in, cancel the new place. Get the cops involved, at least so they have a report of what happened, you don't need proof, you just need to talk dammit. And not to us. To someone in your Real World, right now.

 

Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!

Posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:46:32

In reply to Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:32:44

I realize you can't afford the rent by yourself. Which is why a roomie is a good idea, plus it will afford you a measure of protection, insulation that is, from your SO.. because he's not your SO, not RIGHT NOW. He's significant, yes. But your Other that has to be someone else. A support team you develop. Do it. And don't talk to me until you've taken the first step. Others here can help you. I'm only withdrawing temporarily until you get back to me. Please please please get back to me!!!!

 

Re: He said, She said (nm) Susan47

Posted by sunny10 on April 15, 2005, at 13:59:30

In reply to Re: Susan47 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Please read!!!, posted by Susan47 on April 15, 2005, at 13:46:32


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