![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 20 to 44 of 44. Go back in thread:
Posted by Speaker on March 2, 2005, at 9:04:23
In reply to Re: One step forward, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 0:51:17
Now that's a STRESSFUL thought...but it did enter my mind :).!!!
Marie
Posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
In reply to Re: One step forward » daisym, posted by Speaker on March 2, 2005, at 9:04:23
Is there anyone among us who HASN"T wondered if his/her T reads us here?
I figure mine wouldn't have the time - he's a busy guy.
:-)
ShortE
Posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 13:42:48
In reply to peeping T's, posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
the title was so very funny :-) I think mine wouldn't - just for the same reason I try not to go to discussion boards related to my work. Already I spend 8 hours with my work, so why spend more time with the same thing, I like going to other kind of discussion boards because it takes my mind away from my regular work. I know my ex T used to go to discussion boards completely unrelated to psychiatry/therapy - I think he wanted a change.
Posted by annierose on March 2, 2005, at 18:09:34
In reply to Re: peeping T's » Shortelise, posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 13:42:48
Wouldn't it be interesting if there was a similar psych board for therapists to ask questions about their clients? and for mutual support? Sure would be interesting to read what they say about us? ... although scary too ... especially if we see ourselves.
Posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 19:49:29
In reply to peeping T's, posted by Shortelise on March 2, 2005, at 12:13:20
I suspect many don't have the time; most, actually, I'll bet. I think if a therapist wants to be effective, though, and he knows his client is on something like this, he or she would be curious anyway. But finding the time and energy to go beyond curious is a huge stretch, really.
Posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 21:07:05
In reply to Re: peeping T's, posted by Susan47 on March 2, 2005, at 19:49:29
Are you guys kidding?!!!
I have three kids, a sick husband, a fulltime job running a business, I consult, teach and train on the side, travel for my job and go to therapy 3 or 4 times per week. I'm on two state level advocacy comittees and three local ones. And I have time to be here.
And yes, my house is reasonably clean, I grocery shop and do laundry each week, cook dinner every night (almost) and bake typically once per week.
And yes, I do sleep. Some.
So...I doubt "too busy" would be a reason to not visit.
Sorry, the too busy made me giggle.
Posted by Dinah on March 2, 2005, at 21:26:53
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 21:07:05
Posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 22:21:14
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 21:07:05
My God Daisy.. Are you some sort of a Super Woman? :-)
Posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 23:28:34
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy » daisym, posted by pinkeye on March 2, 2005, at 22:21:14
I hope that didn't sound like I was bragging. I've been told I'm "hyper" (by a pdoc) and I've been told I'm intense.
Actually I think I'm a prototype for a new cartoon character: Anxiety-Woman! Motivated to clean whole kitchens in the middle of the night...able to bake three types of muffins in a single sitting...anything, anything, anything to keep moving so it doesn't catch up with me.
I don't recommend it.
Posted by Susan47 on March 3, 2005, at 0:29:44
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 21:07:05
You have so much energy!
Posted by Susan47 on March 3, 2005, at 0:32:14
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy, posted by Susan47 on March 3, 2005, at 0:29:44
I'm exhausted, too, just reading all that. I really do not know how you do it. People like you have always amazed me and made me realize how far I could go if I picked myself up and dusted myself off... there goes the old boot-strap method talking again.
Posted by pinkeye on March 3, 2005, at 13:42:59
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy, posted by daisym on March 2, 2005, at 23:28:34
you were not bragging. why don't you stop some of the stuff that you are doing and take more time to relax?
Posted by littleone on March 3, 2005, at 14:39:26
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy » daisym, posted by pinkeye on March 3, 2005, at 13:42:59
> you were not bragging. why don't you stop some of the stuff that you are doing and take more time to relax?
Obviously I can't comment on Daisy's behalf, but I know from my own experience that often it isn't simply a case of taking time to relax pinkeye. It's more like you are driven relentlessly. I guess like a form of denial. Taking time to stop and relax would mean that the garbage in your head/past/whatever would catch up with you and that is simply not an option.
If it really was as simple as taking time to relax, don't you think she would have already tried that instead of forking out big $'s on her T.
Sorry, obviously this is an sore spot for me. I don't like feeling like my problems are minimised.
Posted by pinkeye on March 3, 2005, at 14:45:54
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy » pinkeye, posted by littleone on March 3, 2005, at 14:39:26
I see. I was not aware of it. lately I seem not to be able to understand people. maybe I have never been able to.
I thought she was doing it because she had to take care of several stuff - kids, business etc. So I was suggesting trading something off for some relaxing time.
>
> Obviously I can't comment on Daisy's behalf, but I know from my own experience that often it isn't simply a case of taking time to relax pinkeye. It's more like you are driven relentlessly. I guess like a form of denial. Taking time to stop and relax would mean that the garbage in your head/past/whatever would catch up with you and that is simply not an option.
>
> If it really was as simple as taking time to relax, don't you think she would have already tried that instead of forking out big $'s on her T.
>
> Sorry, obviously this is an sore spot for me. I don't like feeling like my problems are minimised.
Posted by littleone on March 3, 2005, at 20:05:02
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy » littleone, posted by pinkeye on March 3, 2005, at 14:45:54
I really sorry I jumped down your throat. It was really horrid and uncalled for on my part. I guess it's apparent that's one of my buttons and I didn't think before posting. My mistake.
Posted by daisym on March 4, 2005, at 0:20:03
In reply to Re: peeping T's/being busy » pinkeye, posted by littleone on March 3, 2005, at 20:05:02
This is a common response that I get from "the world" so to speak. It is easy to look at someone and suggest that they would be happier or less stressed if they were doing less. By the same token, I freely admit that I have no idea how to relax. I can hide from stuff or myself, but I don't remember how to have fun anymore.
I actually entered therapy to try to figure out how to get my joy back and relax more. I remember saying "if one more person tells me to take a bath, I'll scream!"
Don't feel bad pinkeye, and littleone, thank you for defending me. It was sweet.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 13:04:45
In reply to Peace Please, posted by daisym on March 4, 2005, at 0:20:03
No I didn't feel bad. Just that I am not able to understand what people are going through more. It feels so very sad.
Posted by antigua on March 4, 2005, at 13:29:03
In reply to Session - Stuck?, posted by Speaker on February 26, 2005, at 13:34:04
I was "stuck" for almost six months. What a pain. Just going around and around again, feeling like I wasn't making any progress. Turned out it WAS my relationship w/my T. I tested her, pulled back, thought I was smarter than her and knew better, blamed her for just doing her "job", she didn't care about me, etc. etc. Bottom line: didn't trust her anymore and very seriously considered ending or switchings Ts.
Turned out it was all me and really had nothing to do w/her IRL; it was my mother and childhood issues relating to csa. I can't even remember how it was resolved, but we talked the issue to death and as much as I never, ever wanted to, I do trust her again.
Not explaining it very well. But if you keep working at it w/your T maybe it will become clearer. for me, it worked.
antigua
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 14:50:45
In reply to Re: Peace Please » daisym, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 13:04:45
(((Pinkeye)))
I think it's hard to see other people in pain, and if you see something that might help them be in less pain, you want to share that with them. That's perfectly normal.
But as you know from your feelings about your ex-therapist, feelings don't respond all that well to logic. And as much as there is an impulse to problem solve, sometimes the best we can do is sit down next to someone, put an arm around their shoulders, and tell them that we hear what they're saying and we're sorry they hurt.
Since my therapist currently thinks I have every reason to be depressed, that's pretty much all he's doing. Except nagging me to work. And it's astonishing how much hearing that it's ok to feel rotten makes me feel better. And the nagging doesn't work at all. But knowing that I can please him by working harder works sometimes.
It never hurts to point out other ways of looking at things, but it helps a lot to first acknowledge the way that person looks at things right now.
Which sounds horribly preachy, I know. But I don't think you really have any more trouble understanding what people are going through than anyone else. In the end, it's impossible to really fully understand what someone else is going through. I think it's just hard for you to see people in pain without wanting to help. That's no sin. And it's not sad, it's lovely. It might be a bit sad to realize that there's a big limit to what we can do to help.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 16:09:58
In reply to Re: Peace Please » pinkeye, posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 14:50:45
You had put that very well.
Yeah, sometimes we say something trying to help and in the end it confuses the person or hurts the person even more. That is the hardest And sometimes, I just don't know how to help. It is impossible to come up with some nice words which will alleviate the pain.
And the limits of helping is true.. I really admire therapists so much now. They really do the work of God. But it is just impossible for any one person to give so much of themselves to others, be emotionally available, not be afraid of the dependancy, and keep the optimism alive till the end both for them and for the patient. And I think they feel bad too when they have to let go... they have got ohters to take care of. After staring to help out here, I am able to appreciate so much more what my ex therapist must have gone through. Both with me and with others. And somehow I think I will never ever be able to repay him for what he did. And I think many of us feel that way.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 4, 2005, at 16:44:33
In reply to Re: Peace Please » Dinah, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 16:09:58
I know I used to never, ever be able to imagine a way to repay my ex-T. And with the ways things are progressing with current T., I'm guessing in the end, I may feel in a similar way about him one day. Not the same emotional attachment or type of love I have for ex-T. - that is just unique - but likely a deep debt of gratitude for skill, patience, humor, empathy and all that great stuff. And endurance with me - 'cause like Dinah's recent thread, I have been told (and wholeheartedly agree) that I am a "challenging" client. They've had to stay alert and work hard to keep up with me. I can't help it.
So, how can we live with that sense of inequailty? Of never being able to repay? Well, there's no perfect answer, but I think of it this way now with my ex-T. First, I know I've told him in every way possible, with utter sincerity from the depths of my heart and soul (a card, emails, in person, and hopefully by some of my actions) what a blessing he's been in my life. (I still tell him now, when the chance comes up. But if I never said it again, I know he knows and nothing can erase that.) Apparently some clients never are able or choose to share such feelings of thankfulness, whether they have them or not, and T's do notice. So when some do, it sounds to me like it's a huge deal - bigger than we realize.
Even more, pinkeye, the best thing of all we do is what you've written so simply and beautifully about here. For that T. to know you've learned, grown, healed, and changed because of your work together - what could be better? That must be immensely satisfying - the ultimate even. So we've already repaid them in full, really. Look at you and what you do here, and how you still struggle with your own pain over him, yet at the exact same time don't stop pouring out the great stuff he helped bring out in you onto others who need it.
A healthy, thriving present and future life is more than adaquate repayment. I truly believe that.
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 17:03:31
In reply to Repayment » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on March 4, 2005, at 16:44:33
10derHeart, you do really have a way of presenting things so beautifully. I remember your post to I think it was messadivoce a while back, and I was struck in awe by your writing capacity.
Again now, I am struck. It brought me tears to my eyes - when I read your post. That is exactly what I am hoping for.. that by living well and helping others, one day I will be able to repay him. I have told him my thanks too, but I feel it is not enough.
If anything, I wish I had been a more easier client - not have bugged him too much with my emails and my dependancy. And he didn't take any payment from me, because I was kind of a known person to him. So that made it so much the harder.
I hope one day he will realize how much I have grown. I think he won't be realizing it now. I haven't seen him for more than a year. So all my growth has not really been commicated to him. Only a few mails that I had written.
Posted by 10derHeart on March 4, 2005, at 17:55:55
In reply to Re: Repayment » 10derHeart, posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 17:03:31
Pinkeye,
Thank you for your words about my writing. I'm blushing. I'm thinking it may be a key to something I'm supposed to do in my future (currently not working and not knowing what to do - long story for Social sometime maybe) work-life, so I really appreciate the reinforcement. Three or four Babblers have said that - oh my goodness I am so honored. I like to write, although here it hurts while I'm liking it. That sounds *nuts*, but I think you understand. I try to realize it's fairly good, but the old lack of self-confidence jumps in. And this is a tough crowd, NOT meaning anyone criticizes the writing style of others - just meaning there are so many wonderful, articulate writers, I feel I can never keep up! But then I remember, from the heart is all that really matters. Wish I could be more brief, though. My ex-T. is a master at saying amazing things in one or two sentences. I'm in awe of him but can't quite get there.
Thank you very much for remembering a post to Voce, too. For thinking a positive thing and then taking time to say it. You never know when you might just trigger a forward step in a person by that kind of encouragement. Hope this does not offend in any way, but you post in a loving way that reminds me of the level of kindness I try (repeart: try) to strive for as a Christian. You set a wonderful example.
Oh, yes, I had forgotten your old T. doesn't necessarily know what place you're in now. Well, maybe there's a way to tell him some time. I wish I could print out a bunch of posts of yours -and people's reaction to you and send to him. I'll bet he'd be the one with tears in his eyes then. Tears of joy at this young woman transforming into a more peaceful, better human being every day. So there!
Just one more thought and I have to leave. We may not have been the "easy" ones for our T's. I feel exactly the same. I am fighting all that right now with new T., trying to not be so hard on myself about bothering and frustrating old T. I still can't believe sometimes he supported me for months before I started with new T. And he's now letting me detach so slowly, with no pressure from him. It makes you feel guilty, grateful, amazed - so much.
Here's what helps me. My T. told me no one had ever, in 16 years, challenged him like I did in the areas of bonding, attachment and healthy termination. He said his training in that area was terrible, and it always bothered him (he'a pdoc. I was the first to ask for contact after "official" therapy was over. He said he learned a tremendous amount from me. I know these things are true, and so I'm not sure being too "easy" is the best thing. That's us trying to be "good clients." But if I'd not reached out for help and written to him, he would never have learned all this. And he did learn because he said it was all a bit scary for him, too, and fear goes along with learning, IMO. So pinkeye, even when we were needy, we must have done some good. Even if you never had these comments I've just mentioned, I KNOW your T. learned from you and grew as a person. It's impossible not to touch someone like that in return with all he did for you. So I'm saying it isn't as one way as we first see it. Hope that's comforting also. I really must go now.
Many hugs to you - 10der
Posted by Dinah on March 4, 2005, at 18:18:50
In reply to Re: Repayment (long) » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on March 4, 2005, at 17:55:55
My therapist has said the same thing. That all he knows of the proper way to let a client leave and come back and leave and come back and... he learned from me. And other things as well. I *know* my therapist is a better therapist now than when I started with him, and I like to think my "challengingness" is one of the things that helped him grow.
I've grown too of course. :)
Posted by pinkeye on March 4, 2005, at 18:34:51
In reply to Re: Repayment (long) » pinkeye, posted by 10derHeart on March 4, 2005, at 17:55:55
Yeah, maybe you should take up some sort of writing as a hobby. Maybe since you say you are a christian, you can write some nice things and read it in your church gatherings or something like that. You don't have to leave what you are doing, but maybe kind of do it side by side. OR write in church circulars kind of thing.
I am not a christian, but I think the message of all the religions is the same. And for that matter, any form of spirituality - not necessarily associated with even God - maybe even just social causes, is the same. That inspires us a lot doesn't it. And believing in God is the easiest way to visualize the good in us.
I wish I could send him a few of my posts.. but I think it will be like nagging him further. And I am trying to break the pattern of doing things and trying to get pats on my back from others myself - I am so used to it with my father. I am trying to learn to do things just to satisfy myself, and not expect approval all the time. He does know that I find this helping here extremely rewarding and satisfying, only not in real detail.
It always touches us so much when someone does a lot for us isn't it. I am glad you had a wonderful T yourself. And I do hope that somehow in some way I helped my ex T too. If not for anything, only to make him realize the power he has to change a person.
Pinkeye
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Psychology | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.