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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 11:22:32
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 18, 2005, at 17:44:23
(((F)))
Yes, posted, closed, and saw that I had opened, think, third post.
ALIVE, one moment feel so light wind could carry me away; another moment, and I'll try stay w/ this one, feel my feet on the floor ... and that's good for now, cf
Posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 11:29:47
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 19:47:37
(((Dinah)))
What is an IRL team?
In my DBT, we are not allowed to have any contact w/ others in DBT re: anything negative.
Did not tell P; would not know who I was anyway.
Did not tell T in DBT. Did not tell these people what I did. I've no $ for inpatient and do not; absolutely would not; trust state with my health.
I told my daughter and she came over yesterday w/ a meal, did dishes, picked up things; and we talked.
tks cf
Posted by fallsfall on February 19, 2005, at 13:12:06
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » fallsfall, posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 11:22:32
>My heart is overwhelmed w/ so much sadness. I only trust my children and this safe place. Not my therapist, not right now.
>My T 'rapped my knuckles', so to speak, about missing first DBT homework/group in module INTERPERSONAL EFFECTIVENESS after I'd told her it felt like mathematics and I felt very uncomfortable. Any understand?You sound like you could use some support!
I'm sorry that your therapist's reaction felt unhelpful to you. Can you tell her how that made you feel and react? You need to have her on your side. In order to feel like she is on your side, she needs to understand what you are going through.
I did the DBT skills training. There were sections that were completely foreign to me, and other sections that seemed so easy. I guess that my upbringing taught me some of the stuff, but skipped other stuff completely. It was hard to work on the sections that seemed so strange to me (Mindfullness was - and still is- completely beyond me). But I knew that the hardest sections, the ones that didn't make sense to me, or made me react with "Yeah, right! I'm going to do that???????" were the ones that I needed the most. It reminds me of when I used to help teach ice skating, the kids (or adults...) would say "But I can't do that!" and I would reply "That is why we are working on it".
I would bet that you aren't the only one in the group who feels uncomfortable with Interpersonal Effectiveness. I think that one thing that I saw work in my DBT group was that each person would start each section wherever *they* were. And people were at all different places. As we went through a section, some people would just barely get the general idea, whereas other people were working on the finer points. But it needs to be completely acceptable for you to say "I don't understand" or "I can't in a million years imagine doing that". And then you work from there. Even if you go to the group and listen and try to get it, but all you can say is "I don't understand, but I'm trying to listen". That is all they can expect sometimes. If you listen to the other people in the group, they might say something that makes it possible for you to understand.
As adults, we aren't used to learning brand new things. It has been really hard for me to look at something and say "I don't know about this" - I expect that since I'm grown up that I should know everything. Well, duh, it doesn't work that way! It has taken a lot for me to accept myself in times when I don't understand things. And I had to accept that myself before I could admit to others that I didn't understand. And, amazingly enough, when I say that I don't understand something, people are generally very willing to go through it again and help me understand it.
I really hope that you can let your therapist and DBT therapist know what is going on with you. If you are now safe - if the danger has passed - can't you tell them what happened? So they can help you figure out how to deal with a similar situation in the future? Is there one of your professional helpers who you know really does want what is best for you? Or at least talk to us. You can't keep this all inside yourself.
>Did not tell T in DBT. Did not tell these people what I did. I've no $ for inpatient and do not; absolutely would not; trust state with my health.
You need to talk to your therapists about the fact that you are not comfortable telling them certain things. I know that is really hard to do, but it is SO important.
>I told my daughter and she came over yesterday w/ a meal, did dishes, picked up things; and we talked.
I'm glad your daughter can help you. Let us help you, too.
Posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 17:34:17
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 19, 2005, at 13:12:06
Managed to watch movie, eat, go outside and smoke straight up to the lady that says 'smoke is coming into her house from mine' (I smoke inside) ... but if she wants me to stand outside and let it rise right to her front door, ... am I being mean?
Have appt. @ 5, just hair wash and style, but think your caring gives me strength to go.
Keep getting out of bed, stay up as long as can, then back, so much anxiety; curl up w/ my late Dad's blanket.
Cannot reach children yet.
No, there isn't anyone who 'really knows me and cares' that I can truly trust, besides the children.
I'm sandwiched in this condo between a 'your smoke is coming in my house' lady above; and a 'guy turned bad' next to me!
I guess I'm paranoid, but I'd never hurt them, they'd never hurt me, why should I care, I know all that; still feels like I fear them.
cf
Posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 21:48:11
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 19, 2005, at 13:12:06
I asked my daughter to come over and spend the night w/ me. I think I'm in shock because she said 'I'm Done!' I must be in shock. I don't know what to do. I feel nothing. She must have thought this attempt was a cry for help; it was not. cf
Posted by fallsfall on February 19, 2005, at 23:45:14
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » fallsfall, posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 21:48:11
Cora,
It is important that you find a way to get professional help. You need to work towards being able to have resources who can help you.
Friends and family are wonderful and essential, but they do not replace the professionals. There are things that friends and family cannot do that you need. They can't do these things because they love you. I have tried to be the ultimate support for a friend, but I cannot do it - it isn't good for me, and it isn't good for her, either. You need to have someone helping you who understands what you are going through, and understands what you need to get to the other side of it.
If you are in DBT, then there should be a 24 hour phone number that you can call. DBT stresses that they want you to call so that they can help you use the skills that you are learning in the group. They know that you won't always know how to use those skills - that you will need help in figuring out what skill to use how in each situation. So they encourage you to call them when you are having trouble.
Right now you are having trouble. Please let them help you. I understand that you are scared that they can't be trusted, but in actuality, they are the people who are best able to help you. You may not always *like* the help that they give all the time, but there are reasons that they do what they do.
Have you read "Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder"? It is the text that goes with the Skills training manual for DBT. I found it really helpful in understanding what some of my own struggles were about.
I am worried about you. If you are not safe, then you need to do something to keep yourself safe. I understand that you want your daughter to keep you company, but it sounds like she is finding that a bit overwhelming. She loves you, and wants you to be OK. So, please, do what you need to do to be OK - for your daughter, if not for yourself. Either call the DBT number, or go to the hospital. Or at least make a promise that you will be OK until tomorrow. Watch a movie, go to bed, chat with a friend online.
You are reaching out (you posted here...) - please reach out to professionals who can help you.
Falls.
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 0:32:12
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 19, 2005, at 23:45:14
Falls - The phone # at DBT is 911. I also have chronic pain and am not entitled to receive my pain meds in any of the hospitals that I know of ... I've gone through this before. I tried to get into one that I know of that has a detox unit where prescriptions can be dispensed, pain meds - narcotics; then you spend your days attending behav. health unit, just get your meds at detox unit. But when I call re: this problem, I get the run around. I will try call CONTACT again, for about the 3rd time in a couple years ... all other times beds full at this particular center, and the person who answers is confused re: pain med dispensation. I'll be paying $800.00 out of my SSD of $800 for the rest of this year and into next. There are no behav.health/chronic pain ctrs. and if there were I could not afford them. Thank you so much. I know you are right. It's just not so easy when I have to deal w/ chronic pain - well, it's impossible ... cf
Posted by gardenergirl on February 20, 2005, at 6:51:26
In reply to Re: (((((Corafree))))) » Speaker, posted by corafree on February 19, 2005, at 11:09:06
I do understand, cf. I've been using some of the DBT skills modules with clients, and I feel embarrassed sometimes that they seem very simple. I try to keep reminding myself and the clients that these are skills to be *built*, and some of the foundation stuff maybe stuff they already know, but we have to lay the foundation anyway.
I'm sorry your T came down hard. I suppose maybe she was concerned that this might become a pattern and she wanted to nip this in the bud?
Or is she a nun? ;-) (sorry, Catholic school image)
Take care. Is your family still around, or did they return home?
gg
Posted by fallsfall on February 20, 2005, at 9:31:43
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » fallsfall, posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 0:32:12
I'm sorry that your DBT program doesn't have an emergency phone number. Calling 911 is *not* the same.
In my area, there is a therapy organization that has a 24 hour number called "Emergency Services". This is the same group that sends a therapist to the hospital if you go to the ER. Anyone can call this number - whether you get therapy from them or not. They can talk to you on the phone a little and give you suggestions, rather than just send an ambulance to pick you up. Is there any such thing in your area?
I think you need to discuss with your therapist the fact that you don't have a reasonable emergency plan. Knowing what to do in an emergency is a critical part of a safety plan. If you have no options, then you have no safety plan. Please work with your therapist to figure out what makes sense for you and your situation.
How are you doing today?
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 16:35:54
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 20, 2005, at 9:31:43
I called my State insurer's behavioral health organization. While speaking with a woman about my situation, two policemen woke up my section of six part condominium complex. You know, they pound on the door, push on it, then shine a flashlight, and start speaking loudly. I quickly asked them to please be quiet as my neighbors, I feel, are very nosey.
It's alright; guess I didn't use the correct wording in speaking on the phone. She must have felt that I was currently giving thought to harm myself.
I am still tired.
The BIG PROBLEM here is as follows:
I have chronic back pain and have a prescription for Percocet three times a day.
I live in one of biggest cities in United States. The woman I spoke with did not know of ANY unit that would allow me to take my narcotic. She said I would just have to go and find out. Some of you may know how that goes.
A day or so w/o maintenance Percocet and I would be in certain withdrawal.
There are some centers in the states that treat both, but I live alone, on Social Security Disability alone.
thankyousoforlookingoutforme ((F))
cf
Posted by B2chica on February 20, 2005, at 18:24:41
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » fallsfall, posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 16:35:54
Cf,
i am so sorry to hear you in so much pain (physically and emotionally). i am very glad it was 'thwarted'. good for you. you are strong.
please hang in there, help IS out there.
please keep us posted.
b2c.
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 21:23:47
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt, posted by B2chica on February 20, 2005, at 18:24:41
I hope you are right ((B2chica)).
No interest in my physical or emotional health; my family of origin, and now, at my utter devastation, MY OWN CHILDREN; BREAKS MY HEART.
This site really is keeping me going. I'm wiped out. I don't know what I'd do w/o it.
I haven't rec'd a call from anyone this long weekend, getting dark, starting to feel bad again. I really am wondering what to do now.
I don't think we have exchanged posts before ... appreciated, especially under such circumstance.
cf
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 21:27:38
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by Dinah on February 18, 2005, at 19:47:37
Hey again Dinah.
Did you answer and I missed it? See I am repeating myself here and there.
The IRL team? (IRL?) You will not hurt my feelings if there is something that I am not receiving w/ my therapy, that maybe I need.
againthanks, cf
Posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 21:40:45
In reply to Re: (((((Corafree))))) » corafree, posted by gardenergirl on February 20, 2005, at 6:51:26
Oh gg; Sun eve and feeling bad.
My mother spoke w/ me just a minute at my call two eves back. She started to talk down to me and I hung up on her. If she says something negative about me personally, I wouldn't be able to forget it.
She owns three properties here. One was my Dad's. It is in a 55+ park, a single wide. At this particular community, when I've been there, no one even comes out of their houses!
Today, as I was listening to classic rock; I don't think I'd fit in gg!!
See, the thing is, she bought it, she didn't like it, plainly wasn't good enough for her, and then my Dad bought it from her, but of course it is hers now.
When I called her, I said pls help me w/ some security mother; crying after Raina (my daughter and sweetest supporter) had just told me 'No more!'
I/m afraid my daughter, Raina, and her husband blame me for an early miscarriage a couple mos back.
GG, believe me, I don't know why, but I don't look my age, look early 40s ... pls don't think I'm being vain ... it's just weird - maybe because I haven't laughed enough in my life!
I am scared to feel I'm being put out to pasture.
(((((((gg))))))
I know you'll forgive my verbage, punctuation, etc.
You're the best. cf
Posted by fallsfall on February 20, 2005, at 22:26:18
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » fallsfall, posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 16:35:54
You can call the places to find out where you can be properly taken care of. I am certainly not advocating that you get admitted somewhere and *then* find out if you can take the Percocet. Clearly any benefits for your mental health would be undermined by the physical issues if you cannot continue the Percocet. I have to believe that there are places that can help you. Perhaps if you found a Partial Hospitalization program - where you would be home in the evenings, but have support during the day - you could be in charge of your own medications but still get the emotional help you need? I don't know. But somebody does. You could call your local NAMI (National Alliance for the Mentally Ill), perhaps they would know of a resource. Certainly ask every therapist and psychiatrist you meet with.
It is so clear that you want help. Your determination will be an invaluable resource.
Hoping you can find the answer,
Falls.P.S. IRL = In Real Life - meaning real people in your life, not online people
Posted by anastasia56 on February 20, 2005, at 22:57:39
In reply to Re: (((((Corafree))))) » gardenergirl, posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 21:40:45
i'm so sorry you are going thru this period. i thought i had read a long time ago that you were in phoenix. if that is indeed where you are phoenix has a program called "Access' which i believe is fairly all inclusive for lower income individuals. just thought i'd throw that out there just in case you live there.
ana
Posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 8:00:24
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by fallsfall on February 20, 2005, at 22:26:18
Great ideas/explanation.
I do know of some partial hospitalization programs, and will give NAMI a call.
As far as IRL peeps (Where have I not been?), taking time to try properly express and/or correct myself is not one of my better skills. So, not a lot of 'IRL' going on here, and that brings interpersonal effectiveness to mind.
Maybe while reviewing my people skills, I'll rely on my determination to carry me forward.
Thank you so very much, cf
Posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 8:49:42
In reply to Re: (((((Corafree))))), posted by anastasia56 on February 20, 2005, at 22:57:39
THANKS ... and I have been sitting here so long; it's hot in here, so I can really feel that hug! cf
Posted by Dinah on February 21, 2005, at 19:05:41
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » Dinah, posted by corafree on February 20, 2005, at 21:27:38
Sorry, I haven't been online much.
IRL = in real life
As much as we want to help you as much as we can, in an emergency online help just isn't enough - as I'm sure you know. You need your doctor and DBT therapist on your side. If your DBT therapist doesn't allow any outside calls, she's not following DBT procedure very well. Under Linehan's model all clients need both the DBT team leader and a personal therapist for just this reason.
Your daughter loves you very much, you know. If she didn't she wouldn't be this upset.
Posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 19:48:37
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » corafree, posted by Dinah on February 21, 2005, at 19:05:41
Guess you saw where I posted re: my State P. He is only there to write meds, the words from the mouth of my caseworker today. I am in my 7th mo DBT, prob' missed 4 or 5 visits with T or Group in total. I did call her today. I told her that it was hindering my desire to go and learn; her constantly nagging at me about attendance and being kicked out, but told this to her answering machine. This afternoon and eve I have had a nonstop, severe, anxiety attack; hard to type. Called caseworker again. He is going to schedule an appt w/ a P, but they do not know you there, they just look at your dx and write meds. I think that I have a may have, subconsiously, an angry or fearful attitude towards these people that I need help from ... and know I'm going to be seeing both in next few days, may be causing this horrible, disabling anxiety ... I can hear and feel my heart, whole body shaking, hot, then cold, gasping for big gulps or air, and I wrap my arms around my ribcage tightly to try stop the feeling my heart will literally break out! Xanax is not working. Dang Eff-XR - don't know what it's doing. Only other thing I take during day is 75mg levothyroxine - could it be too much? Dinah - Not asking you to answer all these questions/ideas ... just needed to get out and all I can do is hypothesize. Something is so wrong. I wish I could afford to get off this State health system. Yep, pretty sure I am not very happy w/ P or T! Did not call NAMI, forgot, but will tomorrow. Tks for concern this eve, cf
Posted by fallsfall on February 21, 2005, at 20:55:39
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » Dinah, posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 19:48:37
It sounds like you are trying so hard!! I hope that things can get easier for you soon.
Please consider reading "Cognitive-Behavioral Treatment of Borderline Personality Disorder". You are very aware of *what* is going on with you, and this book could help you to understand *why*. Based on your posts, I don't think you would find it too hard to get through (but do feel free to skim the sections that feel over your head). Your local library isn't likely to have the book, but if you ask, they could get it through InterLibrary Loan for you.
The book explains things like why attendance is so important to DBT: The therapy can't help you if you aren't there. That's why they take such a hard line with it. I found that when I understood better *why* they were saying particular things that I fought less.
Keep in touch here, I'd like to know how things are going for you.
Posted by TammySue on February 22, 2005, at 9:55:59
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt » Dinah, posted by corafree on February 21, 2005, at 19:48:37
cf,
I am new here, but I just had to write because I know the brutal feeling of being post-attempt--the depletion of body, soul and spirit--so please be gentle with yourself.I had limited experience with DBT but is a suicide attempt a "treatment-resistant behavior" that could get a person "kicked out"? I only had limited inpatient experience with DBT so I'm not sure but it seems to me that there are things about it that make it difficult to stay with it and be honest. but I might be remembering wrong . . .
I know it's far from easy but I hope that you can find people and a place to go to get real "flesh and bones" "IRL" support . . .
my prayers are with you (oops, am I allowed to say that here?!)
Tammy
Posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 10:31:44
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt, posted by TammySue on February 22, 2005, at 9:55:59
...where are you sweetie? Are you okay right now? What's going on?
Posted by corafree on February 22, 2005, at 11:52:36
In reply to Corafree,, posted by Susan47 on February 22, 2005, at 10:31:44
Susan47:
Hi. I'm okay. I'm trying to find out what other resources may be available to me. I wonder if I will be dismissed from DBT today. I called to ask if I should prepare myself for that; awaiting return call.
The blazing high anxiety, think have figured out. In past, was up to 8 Xanax a day. Went to hospital and admitted myself for detox.
I think my body recognizes the Xanax and wants more, like it wants as much as it had before.
I will get an emergency P visit w/ I don't know who at this State organization.
Because my SSD benefit is $40 over poverty level, I cannot get a lot of benefits that are free to others, but I did qualify for a State health insurance that is not the one I speak of above.
I also will be calling them today to see if maybe I could squeeze out enough money to switch to their organization so that maybe could have a 'good relationship w/ a P and a T in the same organization.'
I cannot find the phone number for NAMI. I called directory assistance.
Didn't respond to earlier two posts yet, as have only one phone line.
I am concerned about Effexor-XR. I wonder what to do. I will not burden my daughter any further. I am very alone here. As I look back, when I was working, I was taking Effexor, plain Effexor. I may have been on a very low dose benzo. Situations around me brought me to seek SSD.
Do you, or anyone here, take Eff-XR, or took it? I cannot afford all the alternative drug therapy. I would 'practically' wish to be in a hospital and switch to WHAT??? WHAT would I switch to?
It seems like I am generally more anxious than I am depressed. I need to find someone who will really look at me, get to know me, and re-evaluate medication.
Today, see DBT T @ 3p mountain time. love, cf
(Oh, have decided to quit checking the 'add name of previous poster' box, as don't want peeps to feel they must respond to me. I wonder if anyone thinks that may be best, or if that has worked best for them?)
Posted by 10derHeart on February 22, 2005, at 13:34:41
In reply to Re: Buckled @ Knees Thwarted Suicide Attempt, posted by TammySue on February 22, 2005, at 9:55:59
TammySue,
Welcome to this board and Babble. I think yours is a good and caring post. And, yes, you are most certainly allowed to say you are praying for someone here.
All types of warm thoughts, positive vibes, prayers and other similar sentiments are appropriate and much appreciated, IMO.
Hope to "see" you often. - 10derHeart
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