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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by littleone on November 24, 2004, at 14:59:41
> By the way, I had an interesting disussion with my current T about how different approaches to therapy put a different amount of emphasis on that attachment between client and therapist. My old T used a form that particularly encouraged attachment, which made the termination really hard. My new T uses a more egalitarian, collaborative mode, that does indeed make me feel less attached.
Hello again pegasus! I didn't want to hijac the other thread, so I thought I would pop this down here.I was really interested in what you wrote above. Are you able to expand on it at all?
I have a real problem getting some sort of healthy attachment up and running with my T. I tend to run away at the first opportunity. I actually had to sign an agreement we wrote up together saying that I wouldn't up and cancel all my appointments. If I do want to leave, I have to attend two final sessions. Without that agreement I would have run away long ago.
I guess I'm really interested in hearing about the methods used to build a strong attachment. Thanks.
Posted by pegasus on November 24, 2004, at 23:39:35
In reply to Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus, posted by littleone on November 24, 2004, at 14:59:41
Hmm, interesting. Just when I was concluding that I wanted a less strong attachment this time around. But I agree that some attachment does seem necessary to facilitate good therapy.
Well, what we discussed in that conversation was that my old T had a more heirarchical style, where he was taking a role as a teacher or guide. So, I took a role as a student or follower. I think this set us up to have a more parent-child type of relationship, which led to a lot of attachment. Because, children need to be attached to their parents after all (and vice versa I suppose).
So, my new therapist believes in a model where the tone feels more like a collaboration. I don't get the feeling from her so much that she knows that much more than I do. We're both figuring it out together. For me, part of that is physical: we tend to sit on the floor together on different sides of a coffee table, where I do my art projects. To me, that feels more grounded, and intimate, and less formal, and more like girlfriends talking things through. Which is a lot different than my old T who always sat in his special chair (and I in a much inferior chair or on the floor or couch), and tended to go into lectures about things, and always seemed to know more than I did.
I don't know whether it's the different styles that have made me feel differently about these two Ts, but I do know that with my old T, I felt painfully dependent. With my new T, I look forward to seeing her, but it's mainly for the work, not as much for her (although I do like her). I am much less obsessed with her, less touchy about exactly what she says, more ok about missing a session here and there. It feels a lot more healthy. And it seems to me that we're still doing some really big work in therapy.
I'd be interested in any other theories about why this might feel different. But I do think their different styles is part of it.
pegasus
Posted by lifeworthliving on November 24, 2004, at 23:56:11
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » littleone, posted by pegasus on November 24, 2004, at 23:39:35
i don't post much but i read here almost daily. i hope nobody minds me jumping in when i can... attachment is of interest to me. i assume that my interest in, longing for, the wanting of, my therapist is about attachment? if so, it's driving me crazy. it used to be more intense so i'm almost grateful for the current level, however, i still find it distracting, but not so much that it affects functioning. i'm just always thinking about my therapist. i wish i could find more reading material on this subject. to "appear" so normal but to be so conflicted internally is unsettling to me. i'm always thinking that if anyone that knows me could see inside my therapists office during one of my appts that they would be appalled by what they see. i'm under a blanket, usually crying (very politely, and feeling very otherwordly. it seems so incongruent with my other life... the one where i take care of kids, go to school, socialize, etc. i wonder if everyone does this (feels like they are of two or more minds) or am i nuts? i am not very nice to myself to feeling so needy. i have the luxury of being very near my therapist and could see her daily if i wanted to (by walking past her office, etc) and it's all i can do to stay away. it isn't unusual for me to show up to be hug and i feel so completely ridiculous for doing/wanting this. anybody else?
is this attachment?
Posted by Shortelise on November 25, 2004, at 16:00:45
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus, posted by lifeworthliving on November 24, 2004, at 23:56:11
I'd say that's attachment.
It sounds like you're right in there with the child in you, looking at old hurts, living with your feelings. It's part of therapy.
Would you want to come out from under the blanket to talk with your T about your feelings toward her and your worries about them? She is the person who will understand and help you work through them.
It sounds like you are doing some really deep work. For me, that work is awfully painful, and my feelings about my T get really painful too. But deep work gets results.
I don't think you're weird at all. The person I am with my therapist is the side of me I need to open up in order to work through the crap I have to work through. And it's the appropriate place to do that.
We are many-faceted creatures, rich in apsects.
ShortE
Posted by Shortelise on November 25, 2004, at 16:01:31
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » lifeworthliving, posted by Shortelise on November 25, 2004, at 16:00:45
Posted by lifeworthliving on November 25, 2004, at 22:02:57
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » lifeworthliving, posted by Shortelise on November 25, 2004, at 16:00:45
i've been afraid that if my t knew how intense this is for me, it would scare her? then i'm reminded how "easy" she has been about many things regarding my attachment to her (tho we've never called it that, i don't think?)and she doesn't seem overly concerned. i think it's a conversation that needs to happen tho. i guess i'm surprised that after all this time (3 years in april) that we've never talked about it the way i think it needs to be talked about now? or maybe i've never needed to know as bad as i need to know now that this is ok? i thought i might be getting "worse" because she is about to be gone for 5 weeks. this has happened before (not quite this long) and she has been gracious enough to make herself accessible to me, even when she is on the other side of the world!!! i have this thing about being able to find her... i don't have to call, just knowing i could if i wanna? it is so odd (or maybe just unfamiliar) to be so dependent for something i can't identify. what am i so dependent on her for? i wouldn't mind it if i thought it was ok, but mostly it makes me miserable, all this wanting... and of what????
Posted by Dinah on November 26, 2004, at 7:19:07
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus, posted by lifeworthliving on November 24, 2004, at 23:56:11
Have you read "In Session: The Bond Between Women and Their Therapists" by Deborah Lott? It's a really good book for sorting out those feelings.
And it is possible to get through to the other side. It just takes a good therapist and some time. And honesty on your part. Things just got worse and worse with me until I was honest with my therapist. But now things are a whole lot better.
(It didn't link for some reason, but there's a link at the top of this page.)
Posted by Dinah on November 26, 2004, at 7:25:23
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » littleone, posted by pegasus on November 24, 2004, at 23:39:35
But maybe it's also got something to do with you and what you need, as well as with your therapist.
My therapist does mainly CBT, and he's honest that attachment isn't a whole lot of what he does. But attachment was what I needed, so attach I did. And what was supposed to be a short term CBT therapy on anxiety control and dysfunctional thinking turned into this. :)
Which isn't to say that he never does attachment work, it's just that in today's climate, CBT is what's normally done. And I suspect from what he's said indirectly that at the time I started to see him, he was a bit burned out from the more in depth work. I think he might have been a bit discouraging of attachment even.
So maybe you've chosen what you need this time, while last time you chose what you needed then.
And while it's easier to attach to some therapists than others, I'm living proof that sometimes attachment need from the client outweighs therapist style. :)
Posted by lifeworthliving on November 26, 2004, at 13:48:56
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » pegasus, posted by Dinah on November 26, 2004, at 7:25:23
yes, dinah, i've read the book (on your recommend!) and also refer to it off and on, hoping to find something that wasn't there before? to understand myself/situation better. i understand the why of attachment, i think? i guess i don't understand how it applies to me. i'm so shocked sometimes to find out i'm a regular joe (so to speak) and was left with scars from childhood... like i should've been above that somehow, because i already knew it was bad and compensated well?) it's just so not me, ya know? so, am i to understand that because of childhood experiences and lack of attachment to mother that i was ripe for this kind of thing? i was sort of insightful before therapy and recognized certain patterns in my life. specifically that i was drawn to older woman and had relationships where i was mothered to some degree. i CRAVED it more than anything and alwayd felt so fortunate to have some older, nurturing woman in my life. all good learning, as usual. i hope this makes me a better counselor.
Posted by pegasus on November 28, 2004, at 18:53:09
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » pegasus, posted by Dinah on November 26, 2004, at 7:25:23
Hi Dinah,
Good point. I should have remembered this about your relationship with your therapist, as a good contrary example. I think you're absolutely right about finding what you need at the time, and how that can change.
I was talking about this with my new T the other day, and she said that she thought I was developing an attachment to her, but that I was a lot less dependent than I had been with my old T. Which I think is correct. I think dependency and attachment are not necessarily the same thing. And it feels great to be finding the one, which is helpful, without so much of the other.
pegasus
Posted by littleone on November 28, 2004, at 21:15:22
In reply to Re: Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus » pegasus, posted by Dinah on November 26, 2004, at 7:25:23
> And I suspect from what he's said indirectly that at the time I started to see him, he was a bit burned out from the more in depth work. I think he might have been a bit discouraging of attachment even.
YIKES! I had thought that doing heaps of short term CBT would induce more burn outs than the longer in depth work. I always thought that T's must love the human mind and how it works and love having the chance to *look* into other people and fiddle with all their cogs and bolts and whatnot.
I always kind of wonder how doing therapy affects them emotionally. I know they would be able to see when an emotional outburst was a reflection on the client rather on them, but still, I often wonder how it affects them.
Posted by littleone on November 28, 2004, at 21:16:12
In reply to Different emphasis on attachment - pegusus, posted by littleone on November 24, 2004, at 14:59:41
Posted by Dinah on December 1, 2004, at 9:23:04
In reply to Burn out » Dinah, posted by littleone on November 28, 2004, at 21:15:22
He used to work in conjunction with a hospital, and he had some rather intense clients. Lots of unreimbursed outside calls, tons of boundary testing. I think it took me a long time to get over the legacy of that.
I think CBT is relatively undemanding in comparison.
Well, just think how hard it is to build and maintain a relationship. Having a ton of superficial relationships designed to convey information would be lots easier.
This is the end of the thread.
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