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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 126 to 150 of 150. Go back in thread:
Posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:24:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by stebby on August 31, 2004, at 20:32:28
I've been here on and off for awhile. Mainly after what happened to me with my pdoc, I was devastated and can only talk about it with very few people, but this group is very understanding, supportive and can relate.
Why do you cut? What's the underlying feeling. For me, with the eating disorder, I think it was kind of like cathartic - throwing up my emotions and frustrations with life, kind of a cleansing myself of the pain I felt. But after awile I couldn't stop and it was eventually out of control. And I'm talking really, really out of control. I threw up every single thing I ate. But somehow I was released. And God, I wish that everyone could experience that release from the things that bind them.
starlight
Posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:35:37
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? Starlight, posted by corafree on August 31, 2004, at 20:33:45
I agree with you. People have the power that you give them. So if you see them from that angle then they will fill that role for you. But that's all people in general, not just therapists. Some good/some bad, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I think therapy can be great, especially for people who need to gain a better understanding of how they operate and what is the underlying motivation for making the decisions they make. Therapy can increase their understanding of how others operate too. Maybe everybody should go through therapy at one time or another.
One approach that I'd like to see change though, is this 'you have to arrive at your own conclusions' thing instead of addressing things head on. Check this out: in my file my pdoc wrote that I behave in a sexually provocative way (which is hilarious since I'm actually quite conservative), so if he thought that, why didn't he come right out and say something like 'it seems to me that you relate to others from a sexually provocotive manner. Have you ever noticed or thought about this?"
I don't want to sit in a room with some doc week after week, who writes this stuff down in my chart and is thinking one way and pretending to help me. That doesn't help me, tell me what you see and then we can discuss my response. Seems like it would be faster and hella cheaper.
starlight
Posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 19:48:11
In reply to Re: Why Do I Have Racing Thoughts?, posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 2:40:11
So sorry about all of the racing thoughts with no one to turn to. that's the worst...to feel so alone in it. How was your first day of DBT? Are yu still having the racing thoughts?
Stebby
> Thoughts come quick, can't remember that one, another one comes, another, another, another. Scared. Can't write them all down. Don't remember. Light candle. Have cig. Wrap in fav' ole' hospital blanket. But get up and have to turn to you, need you. What is this?
Posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 20:10:30
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:24:19
Why do I cut? I wish I could answer that simply. It all started quite by accident when I was feeling very suicidal, but I discovered some sort of relief with it. First it was very mild and then it got more frequent and a little worse. But, I'm somewhat able to control it. Because I hold a fairly high profile job, have two kids, and what appears to be a very "normal" life from the outside, I know I can't let it get out of hand, or else my life will fall apart completely...it kind of keeps it in check. But, even when I'm not cutting, the desire can be very strong, especially when I'm in conflict with someone or feeling very low. It's something I CAN do when i'm feeling so badly. I can't take my life because of what it would do to my kids...so, it kind of keeps me going sometimes. Unfortunately, its so addictive...who would have thought? but I guess you understand that. From everything I've read, bulimia and SI are very similar.
That is so awful about your pDoc, writing those things and never even addressing them with you. You're right when you say that therapists should address things head on sometimes, instead of waiting for you to "discover" for yourself. There is value in self-discovery, but only to a point. If you were really behaving in a sexually provocative manner and you had no idea, shouldn't he tell you? In reality he was probably fantasizing that you were behaving in a sexually provocative manner. It was probably his own form of transference. When a therpaist scews up it is SO damaging! I am still getting over what my first therapist did to me and that was two and a half years ago.
best to you.
Stebby
been here on and off for awhile. Mainly after what happened to me with my pdoc, I was devastated and can only talk about it with very few people, but this group is very understanding, supportive and can relate.
>
> Why do you cut? What's the underlying feeling. For me, with the eating disorder, I think it was kind of like cathartic - throwing up my emotions and frustrations with life, kind of a cleansing myself of the pain I felt. But after awile I couldn't stop and it was eventually out of control. And I'm talking really, really out of control. I threw up every single thing I ate. But somehow I was released. And God, I wish that everyone could experience that release from the things that bind them.
> starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 2, 2004, at 20:52:43
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 2, 2004, at 16:35:37
Starlight,
Ditto ditto ditto. Yes this approach that they can waste our time by not telling us their interpretations really sucks, and is one of the biggest reasons I had to cut myself loose from therapy. I don't think my therapist was a dense person, but I think he acted it. I believe his approach was to let me come to my own conclusions.. and his honesty and forthrightness would have been so much better for me. Maybe that's a bad therapist/client fit, because other posters here have indicated their therapists can be quite up-front.
Posted by corafree on September 2, 2004, at 21:43:12
In reply to Re: Why Do I Have Racing Thoughts?, posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 19:48:11
No DBT group - cancelled! Racing thoughts much better. I always have racing thoughts a bit, but they were real clear, gone, real clear, and gone. Usually they are so fleeting they're not understandable. I was having break-through pain (c-spine & up). So, I had taken an extra Neurontin. Could that have caused racing thoughts? It was really scary, never like that before. Know much about Neurontin used in psychiatry vs physical medicine? Allways TU cf
So sorry about all of the racing thoughts with no one to turn to. that's the worst...to feel so alone in it. How was your first day of DBT? Are yu still having the racing thoughts?
>
> Stebby
>
> > Thoughts come quick, can't remember that one, another one comes, another, another, another. Scared. Can't write them all down. Don't remember. Light candle. Have cig. Wrap in fav' ole' hospital blanket. But get up and have to turn to you, need you. What is this?
>
>
Posted by Dinah on September 4, 2004, at 14:20:10
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on August 30, 2004, at 15:20:41
I think he's just plain disorganized. :) No need to put a finer face on it. He has many fine qualities. Organization isn't one of them. He's consistently late, his desk is a mess, he forgot to get his listing into the phone book. He's just disorganized. Luckily I'm not seeing him because *I* feel disorganized, or I'd have to quit. :)
He's not great on the phone, so I don't call him much. Or I do call him sometimes, but to leave a message or to ask a question that can be answered with a few words. I try to be very specific about what response I'm looking for, or I just feel worse after he returns my call. I guess I'd give up calling completely, except sometimes I'll be obsessing about something, and just leaving him a message keeps it from interfering with my life and productivity till the next session.
I still think I'm going to reduce sessions. We're just trying to work on the best way to do it. Have you given it any more thought? The intensity of my anger once I decided to go through with session reduction startled me.
Posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on September 2, 2004, at 20:10:30
Have you ever researched self flagellation? Cutting and bullimia seem to be a form of that behavior in a sense. A way to get the pain out of the body, throw it up, cut it out, drown it, etc. It's cathartic. Maybe it's finding a different way to release the pain. I think it's a lifetime struggle. I try to do a lot physically, walk, do intense yoga, exercise my creativity, work and stay very busy. But that too can be a form of cutting or throwing up.
I'm trying to aim for more balance in my life, but I still struggle, I've been through a lot of stressors this year but I seem to be coping fairly well, but have been doing a little too much self medicating that I'm keeping an eye on, but I try not to judge. Judging just makes me feel worse. I try to accept my circumstances and work harder on having good relationships with the people around me.
I look for the beauty in the world around me and give great thanks for it, even if I don't feel like giving thanks. And I feel much, much better when I do that, and it seems like I have many more grace and beauty filled moments. The book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron gives all sorts of practical tools to explore and discover your strengths and vulnerabilities and help channel your emotions in the right direction. I think it takes a lot of practical work and willingness to take on the responsibility because our relationships with people and our health are what makes this life really rich and fun. When you work really hard and come to new understandings of how to see love and really enjoy this life right now as you stand in it, it's still a struggle.
Whatever helps. I'm going to research self flagellation and see what's out there, both illnesses seem to be a type of that. Sometimes I wonder what it is in my personality that drives me to be that way.
starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 4, 2004, at 22:53:08
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
That was a really beautiful post Starlight. You're elegant; thank you.
Posted by allisonf on September 5, 2004, at 14:05:54
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on September 4, 2004, at 14:20:10
That's funny about your therapist being so disorganized. It's sort of a lovable quality when it doesn't interfere with you & your therapy!
I had thought I read once that you didn't call him on the phone too much. I hate leaving messages too, b/c sometimes it takes her longer than I want to get back to me.
That's great that you're feeling strong enough to reduce your sessions. I have been meaning to read thru that thread further down about termination angst. Why have you been feeling angry about it? What specifically--angry at him? How have you been feeling about it lately?
I am still planning to go down to every other week from every week. I went last week and I have to go this week again to get on the right schedule with my therapist's appts. But the week of the 13th I'm still planning to go without it...we'll see. I'm not sure how long this will last. I haven't been feeling a lot related to it, I think in part b/c my therapist didn't initiate it (I think I would've felt angry or disconnected or something if she did). I don't know. I've also been totally preoccupied by this issue with my boss lately, so I haven't been thinking a lot about therapy. But still, thinking about terminating completely gives me total angst. I'm still very attached to my T. I guess you have to take these things slowly.
Keep me posted on what you decide to do.
Posted by Dinah on September 5, 2004, at 14:14:24
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on September 5, 2004, at 14:05:54
I'm angry with myself, because it's all my idea. :) My therapist is neutral in that he says he just wants what's best for me.
I'm feeling strong enough that I think I can reduce to once a week therapy without influencing my mental health overly much. So since I can, I think I should.
But I'm utterly furious with myself for doing the right thing. :(
Silly, I know.
Posted by corafree on September 5, 2004, at 16:27:17
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
You really should be a writer, or maybe you are? So you swing from hurting yourself to pushing yourself into a world of beauty (cannot speak as eloquently as you.)
In DBT, it is my understanding thus far that there is a middle ground to be found. It is where your pain and your grace work together to create wisdom (or maybe should say freedom.)
Wish you well cf
> Have you ever researched self flagellation? Cutting and bullimia seem to be a form of that behavior in a sense. A way to get the pain out of the body, throw it up, cut it out, drown it, etc. It's cathartic. Maybe it's finding a different way to release the pain. I think it's a lifetime struggle. I try to do a lot physically, walk, do intense yoga, exercise my creativity, work and stay very busy. But that too can be a form of cutting or throwing up.
>
> I'm trying to aim for more balance in my life, but I still struggle, I've been through a lot of stressors this year but I seem to be coping fairly well, but have been doing a little too much self medicating that I'm keeping an eye on, but I try not to judge. Judging just makes me feel worse. I try to accept my circumstances and work harder on having good relationships with the people around me.
>
> I look for the beauty in the world around me and give great thanks for it, even if I don't feel like giving thanks. And I feel much, much better when I do that, and it seems like I have many more grace and beauty filled moments. The book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron gives all sorts of practical tools to explore and discover your strengths and vulnerabilities and help channel your emotions in the right direction. I think it takes a lot of practical work and willingness to take on the responsibility because our relationships with people and our health are what makes this life really rich and fun. When you work really hard and come to new understandings of how to see love and really enjoy this life right now as you stand in it, it's still a struggle.
>
> Whatever helps. I'm going to research self flagellation and see what's out there, both illnesses seem to be a type of that. Sometimes I wonder what it is in my personality that drives me to be that way.
>
> starlight
Posted by stebby on September 6, 2004, at 8:14:00
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by starlight on September 4, 2004, at 19:08:19
Hi Starlight,
No I haven't researched self-flagellation, but certainly what you say about cutting out the pain, or thowing it up makes a lot of sense. Anything to stop it...today I feel that way. Anyway, I also agree that working on relationships and focusing on and giving thanks for the beauty in the world is helpful. I'm getting there more and more, but mostly what I do is keep busy and that distracts me, but it doesn't make it go away. Thanks for the book recommendation.
stebby> Have you ever researched self flagellation? Cutting and bullimia seem to be a form of that behavior in a sense. A way to get the pain out of the body, throw it up, cut it out, drown it, etc. It's cathartic. Maybe it's finding a different way to release the pain. I think it's a lifetime struggle. I try to do a lot physically, walk, do intense yoga, exercise my creativity, work and stay very busy. But that too can be a form of cutting or throwing up.
>
> I'm trying to aim for more balance in my life, but I still struggle, I've been through a lot of stressors this year but I seem to be coping fairly well, but have been doing a little too much self medicating that I'm keeping an eye on, but I try not to judge. Judging just makes me feel worse. I try to accept my circumstances and work harder on having good relationships with the people around me.
>
> I look for the beauty in the world around me and give great thanks for it, even if I don't feel like giving thanks. And I feel much, much better when I do that, and it seems like I have many more grace and beauty filled moments. The book "The Artist's Way" by Julia Cameron gives all sorts of practical tools to explore and discover your strengths and vulnerabilities and help channel your emotions in the right direction. I think it takes a lot of practical work and willingness to take on the responsibility because our relationships with people and our health are what makes this life really rich and fun. When you work really hard and come to new understandings of how to see love and really enjoy this life right now as you stand in it, it's still a struggle.
>
> Whatever helps. I'm going to research self flagellation and see what's out there, both illnesses seem to be a type of that. Sometimes I wonder what it is in my personality that drives me to be that way.
>
> starlight
Posted by allisonf on September 8, 2004, at 15:41:55
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on September 5, 2004, at 14:14:24
How come you are feeling so angry when you know it is the right thing? Maybe you are feeling strong enough to cut down, but it still isn't the right time to do it if it's causing a lot of angry emotion? What does your therapist say about the anger?
Tho I totally understand the feeling of being ok enough to cut down on therapy and not liking the idea of cutting down b/c it's less time you get to spend with your therapist. Is that kind of what's going on?
Good luck with it.
P.S. Sorry if you explained this already in another thread.
Posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 18:30:02
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Dinah, posted by allisonf on September 8, 2004, at 15:41:55
I guess I feel angry because even though it's my choice, I'm making the choice because I think I "should". You "should" not go to therapy any more than you need to to function well. You "should" not be self indulgent and go just because you want to. You "should" be prudent with money.
As it turns out, he finally spoke his mind and told me that he thinks I'm too depressed to make a truly free decision right now, and too depressed for it to be a good time to reduce therapy. Which lifts some of the "should" thinking and gives me more time to consider the matter.
Posted by allisonf on September 9, 2004, at 9:13:09
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » allisonf, posted by Dinah on September 8, 2004, at 18:30:02
Oh, I understand better what you were thinking. I can see why you would feel upset with yourself even if you were doing what you thought was the right thing.
That's good about what your therapist said. I would agree if you are feeling conflicted about changing your routine, this might not be the time to change it. Let me know how it works out.
Posted by Starlight on September 10, 2004, at 17:55:42
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? ? starlight, posted by corafree on September 5, 2004, at 16:27:17
It's kind of like having two separate selves. The part that's self destructive and the part that's trying to see things differently. It's kind of like still trying to find the middle ground by swinging too far one way and then the other. Eventually you figure it out hopefully. I think a lot of us probably struggle with this. Mother Theresa said once that depression is the deepest form of compassion.
I do a lot of writing. I write about everyday, but lately it's been a bit harder.
Cheers,
Starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 19:04:01
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 10, 2004, at 17:55:42
I like what Mother Theresa allegedly said. It feels right doesn't it.
Posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 19:08:53
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 10, 2004, at 17:55:42
I'll bet therapists get depressed.
Posted by starlight on September 12, 2004, at 12:11:37
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy? » Starlight, posted by Susan47 on September 10, 2004, at 19:04:01
It does, it's kind of like we take the world of hurt and turn it inwards rather than outwards. But in the end both ways end up hurting others and the only way to not hurt others is to be healthy.
starlight
Posted by stebby on September 12, 2004, at 18:29:28
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by starlight on September 12, 2004, at 12:11:37
Unfortunately, I am beginning to see that turning hurt inwards still harms others. My SI is really stressing my marriage. But how can I just say..."Okay. I'm going to be healthy now!"? Its not that easy.
> It does, it's kind of like we take the world of hurt and turn it inwards rather than outwards. But in the end both ways end up hurting others and the only way to not hurt others is to be healthy.
> starlight
Posted by Susan47 on September 12, 2004, at 19:44:17
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on September 12, 2004, at 18:29:28
It's not easy at all, it's horrible. All we can hope for is understanding. I get a lot of mine here, no place else to get it.
Posted by Starlight on September 13, 2004, at 15:47:30
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on September 12, 2004, at 18:29:28
You really have to work at it. It's not easy, but when you start to feel happier, it's much better and easier than feeling depressed, that's for darn shure.
I totally recommend the tools provided and explained in "the Artists Way". I've preached this book all over the place, but I have avidly followed her suggestions and my life is filled with magical synchronistic experiences that have really enriched my life.
starlight
Posted by stebby on September 14, 2004, at 21:55:08
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by Starlight on September 13, 2004, at 15:47:30
I Look into that book. It would be so much easier to just end it now. But I can't, I have two little boys. my depressive thoughts for the night...
Posted by corafree on September 16, 2004, at 17:56:46
In reply to Re: Why bother with therapy?, posted by stebby on September 12, 2004, at 18:29:28
All of you, this is really getting a bit ridiculous. I'm sorry for offending you, guess it is my personality disorder (excuse?!). I feel thankful that people to their time to educate themselves to help others. They help me sort out the stressors in my life, and I am thankful for he/she. What is the problem you are all having? cf
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