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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by DaisyM on April 20, 2004, at 19:01:31
Hey Karen,
I feel like somehow I've missed it somehow. When last we saw our Heroine (you), she was upset at her Therapist for cancelling a scheduled session. Group wasn't going well but she was still trying.
Is there a new chapter I am unaware of? I'm really sorry. I've been sort of under a cloud for weeks but I was thinking about you today. I missed you in Open Chat last night.
I'll try to pay attention and be more supportive, really. Just catch me up, OK?
Daisy
Posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 14:09:16
In reply to Karen, I need an update!, posted by DaisyM on April 20, 2004, at 19:01:31
i called to cancel my group session on tuesday morning. i called because i remembered that he really dislikes it when clients don't call to cancel and just neglect to show up. i couldn't make group as i had a project to work on with members from a class. i know, i scheduled it that way on purpoes. dont' say it out loud, ok? so , left a message saying, 'bubba, i won't be in group today. thank you.' he called back within two minutes. i didn't want to deal with the mess, so i ignored the call. i later checked the message and he said, 'i need a reason as to why you won't be in attendence today. also, i received your message last week, but i've been swamped with paperwork and forgot to return your call. i want to make sure you are ok.'
i later returned his call saying, 'i've been very busy with work for school. i had to do a project and that's why i wasn't able to attend the group meeting today. i'll been home all day working on a paper, if you need ot get in touch with me. i'm sorry i missed group. i hope you accomplished much there. blah blah blah. i hope you had a pleasant easter holiday.'
then, i started thinking, 'karen, grow a spine. with the help of a friend, i called him back and said, 'i know you are busy, but i don't think i made it clear in my last phone call that i need you to call me back. haope you have a great day bubba. thanks.'
he called me back. he said 'i knew you wanted me to call you back, but i was going to wait, as you were working on your paper. i know you are stressed right now with finals.' i told him, 'i havent' even begun to think of finals yet.' he said, 'so, what's on your mind?' i said, 'well, i can;'t talk about it right now.' he said, 'oh, is your old man home?' i said, 'no, it's just too long to get into on the phone.' (and why does everyone assume i'm having problems with my old man????) he said, 'can you give me a hint?'
wait, let's change the format a bit, ok..
me: it has to do with what you said after the last sesssionwell, i thought you were doing better, you were smiling
i was falling apart bubba.
i'm sorry i didn't recognize that
ok. and about group. i'm only there because i know you want me to be there. and i have a real problem with doing things to please others, as we have discussed. i know you need this group to succeed, and i know you need me there to challenge the other members. but,i'm only there becaues i feel like you need me there.
shhhh. (laughs) let's not talk about that. see you tuseday then? this is the only way to keep you as a client. and if i refer you to someone else in this office, you won't have as much fun as you do with me.
*so, i think i realize now, i'm basically doing volunteer work at this point. to help bubba's group succeed. but, i think that i will also pick up some good things from the group. i do have a problem with overanalyzing things at this point, and i fear the group will only contribute to this problem, as well analyze interactions and behaviors. but, i also think that the group will be benificial to me in noticing my own interactions and behaviors as well. this group will help me to change my own interactions that are causing me harm. so, i guess i'll have to see how it goes? i'm not thrilled about this mess, don't get me wrong. i'm just trying to see the good. and i do only have a year. i made my bed, i guess i have to lie in it. and besides, what's the harm in helping bubba and the other members of the group? i can put my own issues that i probably wouldn't deal with n individual sessions iwth a different therapist on hold for another year anyway, while i work on my interactions with people in a group setting. i'll give it a try.
thank you daisy for being concerned darling. i'm very sorry that you are going through what you are. and i'm very sorry that i've been self-involved right now and haven't been able to support you like i should. but, i have been thinking aobut you dear, even if i haven't been able to post. i'll be better about posting to you. take care of yourself daisy. i've missed you. i'll be better dear. promise.
Posted by fallsfall on April 21, 2004, at 17:38:31
In reply to As requested, but are you sure you want it hear? » DaisyM, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 14:09:16
>i'm basically doing volunteer work at this point. to help bubba's group succeed...i can put my own issues that i probably wouldn't deal with n individual sessions iwth a different therapist on hold for another year anyway,
Ummm, Karen?
What is with this???????
Posted by pegasus on April 21, 2004, at 18:10:17
In reply to Re: As requested, but are you sure you want it hear? » karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on April 21, 2004, at 17:38:31
Yeah, Karen, this does not sound good. Can you see some other therapist besides Bubba, and keep going to his group too? Most people who are in groups also have individual therapists. Besides, he sounds like he's more worried about keeping you as a client than about what's best for you. I don't get it. It's not like you to put up with this type of thing.
With much concern for you,
pegasus
Posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 22:02:57
In reply to Re: As requested, but are you sure you want it hear? » karen_kay, posted by fallsfall on April 21, 2004, at 17:38:31
ok, i had a major (possibly stupid, don't get me wrong here) idea while walking home from the library today. so, i'm thinking that possibly, maybe even perhaps!!!! the way to solve my own problems is through helping others solve their own? what do you think? maybe if i continue to help others and give it my all (and i mean really give it a go) then maybe my problems will somehow work their own way out?
ok, so i have this constant need to help people. and it is coming from somewhere, right? so, why not do it? and, if i continue to do it, and put myself on hold, possibly my problems will work out too. like karma. see, i'll get what i give. and if i only give out good energy (and god knows, i'm trying and i think that it's been better lately, but not good enough of course) then good energy will come back.
so, does this sound like a crock, or am i on to something here? so, i'm thinking, by participating in this group (and i'm not doing it with the intention of getting good things for myself, or with the hopes of receiving good things, you know? i'm not being selfish in any way. i'm doing it so that i can help bubba. so i can help the people involved. you know?) so, by participating in this group, and giving out good energy, possibly maybe perhaps, good energy will come back to me as well? or did i blow it by hoping for it?
good god! i'm so confused at this point i don't know if i'm sitting or standing. i just want the world to be happy. and i don't want my dog to have nightmares anymore. and i don't want little kids to fall off their bicycles either. see, i overanalyze everything falls. i need a therapist to tell me it's ok..... but, i'm too busy trying to help his group succeed and worrying that he's ill whne he doesn't return my phone calls to talk to him about my problems. shesh i'm stuck! i'm just a bad bad person. no, i just have no spine. no, falls, what's my problem? i need someone to take care of me. that's my problem. so, what is it????? do you have an answer? anyone? speak up...
oh, one more thing he said, and this one goes in the list of stupid commmments too... he said, "as your psychologist, i say you are thinking too much."
oh, bubba,,,why me?
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 21, 2004, at 22:14:35
In reply to wait, you mean i'm not all better? » fallsfall, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 22:02:57
You have a wonderful, warm heart, and a really lovely personality, but don't you still have important issues of your own which you want to work through?
Posted by Dinah on April 21, 2004, at 23:28:01
In reply to wait, you mean i'm not all better? » fallsfall, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 22:02:57
I think it's wonderful to want to help others. I also think a lot of people do it to avoid their own problems. The stereotypical people-helper (minister, social worker, etc.) whose own life is a shambles. It makes you feel better, granted.
I'm not of course saying that applies to you. I'm just saying that some people use it as an escape. Escape is well and fine, and I like it myself. But it just covers the festering problems underneath, not solves them.
Not that I'm saying you in particular have festering problems. It's just a general observation on some people who feel driven to help others, certainly not all. For all I know, Mother Theresa was a perfectly well adjusted individual living up to her full potential.
Posted by DaisyM on April 21, 2004, at 23:31:10
In reply to Re: wait, you mean i'm not all better? » karen_kay, posted by Pfinstegg on April 21, 2004, at 22:14:35
Karen, I'm not sure which hat to put on for you. I think I will start with my "professional caregiver" hat:
Taking care of other people is a wonderful, warm thing to do. But to do so "instead" of taking care of yourself is simply postponing paying attention to your own issues. I know...look at me at 42! They will eventually DEMAND your attention, or get triggered off by some life event. Wishing them away doesn't work.That said, consciously taking a break from therapy is fine. But if you are in a theraputic setting, maybe you can take advantage of it, this group, and learn something about yourself. Maybe you can work on other issues for awhile.
I just don't want you to continue to try to please your therapist at your own detriment. You will only end up being resentful and this will set you back in the long run.
My "mommy" hat:
Occasionally we have to do what feels selfish but is really best for ourselves. You tell me that I can't take care of others if I don't take care of myself. I will say the same to you.How to do that, only you can decide. But it is NOT your job to make your therapist successful. Even as much as you care about him. Consider that you might provide a false sense of accomplishment for him and he isn't learning and growing for his next patient.
Ok - lecture over. I care about you and just want you to be emotionally healthy and happy.
Hugs from me.
Daisy
Posted by All Done on April 22, 2004, at 1:38:44
In reply to wait, you mean i'm not all better? » fallsfall, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 22:02:57
Hey, kk. I must say, I was really hoping you would get an individual session from Bubba, but since it doesn't seem he will do that, I wish you would discuss it with his supervisor or perhaps seek advice from a different therapist. Going to group for Bubba doesn't seem like a good idea to me and therapy is supposed to be for YOU and about YOU.
About helping others to solve your own problems, I can only tell you my own experience. I spent about 25 years putting others before myself. I did everything I could to make everyone else happy. Two noticeable things came out of that behavior. One, everyone wasn't happy. Two, I had a breakdown that resulted in severe depression and I have never been quite the same. Don't bury your problems. I can assure you, they will *not* just go away.
Please take care of yourself, sweetie.
L
Posted by Miss Honeychurch on April 22, 2004, at 8:41:51
In reply to As requested, but are you sure you want it hear? » DaisyM, posted by karen_kay on April 21, 2004, at 14:09:16
KAren,
The "you won't have as much fun as you do with me" comment of Bubba's makes my stomach turn. I think that's really unprofessional. And really unprofessional of him to be having to convince you to stay in his therapy group every week.
Several months ago you were feeling so good about your work with Bubba and how you felt you had changed for the better, etc. Do you still feel this way?
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 18:40:48
In reply to Re: As requested, but are you sure you want it hear?, posted by pegasus on April 21, 2004, at 18:10:17
he claims that he learned it's best not to have seperate and individual sessions during group. and seeing a different therapist while seeing him would probably be out of the question. i realize this mess is rather silly, on both of our parts. but, i've been thinking lately....oh, dear god, when karen starts thinking, it's trouble. but, this would be a great opportunity to address certain issues i have, such as my idea (or rather fact as i see it) that i'm going to die young. and, the idea (also fact as i see it) that i can't bear children. so, i think it's a wonderful chance to accomplish or overcome these particular fears i have....
i know that it doesn't sound like me to put up with this type of thing. but, i've also decided that i should put some issues on hold for a while. i do realize that some of the traits i possess (the need to help people stems from my need to be taken care of, due to my neglect as a child) are interferring with my life to a certain extent. but, at the same time, i just wonder if it's now a bad thing? is it really a bad thing to want and need to help people?
i know that in the past i wouldn't stand for this. and i know that in the past i would have marched into his office and said, "well sir, you are fired. and, i'd like to speak with your supervisor about your lack of professionalism and incompetence." but, i think that perhaps this is a chance for both of us to learn. or, then again, perhaps i just have no spine. or, then again, maybe i have the ability to form emotional attachments and i have one with bubba? i wish i had an analyst in my brain to figure out my own thoughts, you know? i'm following my gut on this one and seeing where it takes me. i just don't think i'mready yet to open a door again that will be slammed in my face once more, you know? it wasn't pleasant the first time it happened and i don't want it to happen again. i'm not ready to start talking about my father, only to have someone say, "well, you're moving, so we have to stop." and then try to find yet another therapist i'm comfortable with... i'll wait until i have plenty of time.
and i do agree that he sounds like he's more invested in his interests than mine. but,i think that in his heart he believes this is what is best for me. and i always go with hearts more than brains. i've trusted him this long. if something bad is to happen, then i'm sure to learn from it, you know? and i like to think that when bad things happen i'm pretty good and learnign from then and putting a positve spin on it.... however, on the other hand, i do wonder about having yet another man in my life controlling me and using me for hisown perosnal gain. of course, that's in the back of my mind. but, i try to keep it back there. i keep my eyes open, don't worry. if i'm not learning from the group at all, i'll not go. or maybe i will... oh good grief! see, i'm indecisive and i overanalyze. and i try to look at things from all angles. good lord,i wish i had someone telling me what to do, and doing it for me. and i wish i could just ride the bus all day long, and just talk to people... sorry, you had to listen to all of this :)
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 18:49:18
In reply to Re: wait, you mean i'm not all better? » karen_kay, posted by Pfinstegg on April 21, 2004, at 22:14:35
will you marry me? and you should be honored, as i don't ask often :)
i think that i have some issues to work on. and i think i'd be more comfortable working on them individually. however, due to time constraints (and the fact that i'm stubborn and will be very resistant to a new therapist) it would be difficult for me to open up with a new therapist. i've just decided to make the group work to my advatage. i think it will be a good place to work on the less 'serious' (???) issues, such as worrying, etc. and hopefully i can find a way to come to a happy medium about this blasted guilt and worry for not doing much and my purpose, blah blah blah..
and me, issues? never, ever, ever... :)
yes, in fact i do have a few.... thank you so very much for your kind words darling, but i pale in comparison to you and your wonderful and compassionate wisdom and charm dear. thank you again for your kind words. they are very much appreciated.
Posted by fallsfall on April 23, 2004, at 18:56:15
In reply to sorry about delay.. » pegasus, posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 18:40:48
FYI - Two different times I was in a group with one therapist and individual sessions with a second therapist. My individual therapist set the groups up for me.
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 19:01:11
In reply to Re: wait, you mean i'm not all better? » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on April 21, 2004, at 23:28:01
well, i can see your point. and i realize that there are certain things that i'm avoiding at this point. but, it's not that i'm necessarily avoiding them, per se, it's jsut that i know i don't have time to really delve into them. so, does that mean i'm avoiding, or am i playing it smart?
if i begin the process (yet again) of talking about such issues, then i run the risk (yet again) of running out of time. and i really don't want that to happen (yet again). so, i think i'd rather play it smart and go with the group. i really don't want to run the risk of opening up, trying to heal this issue, and then not resolving it once and for all. i know, third time's a charm but i don't want to try my luck.
i just remember how extremely painful the nightmares were, and i finally got them to stop. and i remember how painful the flashback was, and i don't want to go back there jsut yet, not without confidence that i can and will get this finally resolved. and i have a feeling that a year jsut won't do it. so, i'd rather put it on hold and wait it out until after school. sorry, i know y ou didn't really ask specifically, but i jsut wanted you to know that i'm not just avoiding it, i just don't want to do it until i'm confident it will finally be finished. and i don't have to take another break to find another therapist and have to start all over again. it's extremely painful, and i'm not willing to put myself through it.
i will address issues that i worry about, like dying young, and children, ect. i'll be an active participant in the group. but, i also realize that i'm there to help the group as well. that i'm a very important member, as they don't challenge eachother. and i do. so, i suppose it's a win-win situation for all?
i'd prefer individual, but i now that it'd take me nearly 4 months to warmup to a new therapist, asssuming i found a good fit. and time is short for me here. and then, what if they really wanted to focus on my past? and i didn't? whewww... this is getting to be a hassle.
Posted by Dinah on April 23, 2004, at 19:23:08
In reply to hmmmm....*possible trigger?* » Dinah, posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 19:01:11
You never heard *me* fussing at you, Karen. While I suspect that Bubba turned on the charm, I perfectly understand your decision, and may well have made the same one. As long as you're getting the support you need and as long as you feel ok and functional, you won't catch me fussing at you.
I want to try a group. I'd love to be in yours. Do you think Bubba would let me join?
Posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 21:57:46
In reply to Re: hmmmm....*possible trigger?* » karen_kay, posted by Dinah on April 23, 2004, at 19:23:08
i didn't mean to make it sound like i assumed you were fussing at me darling. i'm sorry if i did. i know you weren't fussing dear. i think i was just thinking aobut it too much and just began 'spilling my guts' you know? i'm sorry dear, you just got the brunt of my guts...
i tend to start a story and then continue telling it as i respond to posts... my style, i assume. i've still never really gotten the hang of replying. i'm sorry dear..
and of course you could join. it would be my pleasure, as well as bubba's.. be careful though, ha can be very charming!!!
Posted by Dinah on April 24, 2004, at 2:24:25
In reply to ahhh, sweetie.. » Dinah, posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 21:57:46
No need to apologize. I just wanted to let you know I wasn't disapproving. :) As long as you're safe and well.
Posted by Pfinstegg on May 16, 2004, at 16:15:12
In reply to you are SO VERY sweet! » Pfinstegg, posted by karen_kay on April 23, 2004, at 18:49:18
Awww, thanks! I accept the proposal, as i know they are rare and valuable! My husband (that's OK, as, really, the more the better, don't you think?) and I have been away hiking with a group in northern Greece who birdwatch and photograph mountain flowers, so I just got back to Babble.
I just wanted to express my personal thought that I think you got an awful lot out of your sessions with Bubba, and that you have grown a tremendous amount since last fall, which I think was when you first began posting here. It seems like such a positive sign that you were able to move over to group and maintain your gains. I agree, too, that when you are working on abuse and PTSD issues (those are mine, also), you do need to work one-to-one, and you do need plenty of time. I never know when the flashbacks and very painful times are going to come, so I really count on having a long-term relationship with my T. I think it's wise to wait until you know where you are going to be for more than a year. You know that you can get and give important things in group, but perhaps not everything.
Anyway, when you graduate, be sure not to *graduate* from Babble! We'd REALLY miss you if you did!
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