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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 91. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 17:30:22
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone has gotten the impression that the attraction to your T is in fact mutual. If so, what has given you that impression (words, eye contact, etc...)? Does it affect your progress in therapy? Have you said anything to your T about it?
Any illumination on this would be most appreciated - thank you!
BigFish
Posted by Fallen4myT on April 13, 2004, at 17:52:12
In reply to Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 17:30:22
Hi yes and it IS mutual....I am in a rush and will detail this later but ummm yes :-)
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone has gotten the impression that the attraction to your T is in fact mutual. If so, what has given you that impression (words, eye contact, etc...)? Does it affect your progress in therapy? Have you said anything to your T about it?
>
> Any illumination on this would be most appreciated - thank you!
>
> BigFish
Posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 21:04:27
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4myT on April 13, 2004, at 17:52:12
Looking forward to hearing about it... Thanks!
BigFish
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 14, 2004, at 17:30:58
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 21:04:27
** PLEASE DON'T DIS MY T FOR THIS* That having been said...
Hey bigFish sorry I took so long have been very busy and now with the nice weather have been off line a lot more. My T has in short told me he thinks I am beautiful this had NOTHING to do with anything we were or have spoken about..so has said he wants to hold me I just sat like a dope and stared at him...duh...I should have said..PLEASE DO AND MORE :) Once out of the blue he said I was seductive.....I want this man and have for ages not a LOOKS thing more all the qualities I have wanted in a man all my life. We spend sometimes HOURS together...chatting not therapy NO FEE...He has made it clear ..and I have't :) I am kinda shy. Why do YOU ASK :)?????
INQUIRING T LOVERS WANT TO KNOW :p> Looking forward to hearing about it... Thanks!
>
> BigFish
Posted by toomuchpain on April 15, 2004, at 0:47:13
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 14, 2004, at 17:30:58
my ex t did have a attraction to me and had one to him .... but if i could change it i would in a new york minute ... the things the attraction brought to my life and the trouble it has gotten me into and him to is not worth it... unless u have a therapist who can handle it professionaly and not act on it will be fine but i wasnt so lucky
Posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 15:18:17
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 14, 2004, at 17:30:58
>>** PLEASE DON'T DIS MY T FOR THIS*
I definately won't...
This might be an incoherent jumble, but here it goes.
For three years I saw a pdoc for a once-a-month med check. Then at the very beginning of this year I had a severe depressive episode. I contemplated suicide. He suggested I come in twice a week for therapy. I said ok. A few weeks in, during one of the sessions, I noticed that he was looking at me in a different way. I looked away and then back at him. His eyes hadn't moved. He started to ask me repeatedly if, maybe, there was something else I'd like to tell him. I said no. I changed topics several times. Still the question - don't you want to tell me something? Exasperated, I said no. Finally he asked me, in a roundabout way, if I had a crush on him. This was completely out of the blue. We'd never broached the subject of feelings other than my own toward my family. I admitted that I did, though it was mortifying to do so. And then I instantly dropped the subject.
I never mentioned this again. I was too embarassed. Since then there have been, from him, lots of gazes [not all directed at my eyes] and a softening in his tone of voice. On a few occasions he double booked the time of my appointment. Also, he went through a period of starting our appointment late. If it had been me, we would have talked about my "avoidance" but since it's him he just says "sorry." This from a man who had been very punctual.
Then there's the boyfriend-like behavior. I arrived late once and appologized. He said "I called your work and home numbers" in an irritated tone. At one point I canceled the last appointments that we had scheduled because I'd grown overwhelmed with the situation. He left several messages. When I answered the phone later he asked "Why did you cancel? What has happened with this?" in a bewildered tone of voice. Not the "This seems sudden. Why don't you come in and we can talk about it." that everyone else I know has gotten when they have a therapy freak-out.
Then about a week ago, I was talking about an old friend of mine - saying that I love her and that she's important to me. He was staring out the window, paying no attention. This was the first time he'd ever done something like that. I called him on it. He stalled and became evasive - finally saying "the combination of you and love, well, it's difficult for me." I didn't know what to say or do. Since then my friend has come up, but he says "you were saying that you care for her." No, not exactly.
So here I am with a big crush on him [I know about transference. I've known him for too long - it can't account for all of this.]. Thanks for reading this. I needed to get this off my chest really badly.
BigFish
Posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 15:24:06
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by toomuchpain on April 15, 2004, at 0:47:13
I'm sorry to hear that you've been hurt. If it's too painfull a story to repeat, I understand. If you told the story more times that you'd like and don't want to do so again, I understand. I'd like to hear it, though.
BigFish
Posted by joslynn on April 15, 2004, at 16:13:50
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » toomuchpain, posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 15:24:06
Too Much Pain told the story a couple times and it did not have a good ending. (Sorry for speaking for you Too Much.)
These stories worry me. I hope everyone stays emotionally safe. We've heard too many bad endings to these kinds of things. I recall seeing cautionary tales from the posters Judy1 and Too Much Pain.
Maybe people should search for the stories? Or read "In Session."
Posted by toomuchpain on April 15, 2004, at 17:40:15
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by joslynn on April 15, 2004, at 16:13:50
if anyone on hear that knows my post and would like to speak 4 me go for it cus i dont think i can repeat but wont mind anyone else sayin basically what i went through thanx ....
Posted by EmmyS on April 15, 2004, at 17:54:43
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by toomuchpain on April 15, 2004, at 17:40:15
It's TMP's story. If she's not ready to tell it, it ain't ready to be heard! :-)
TMP's story is all in the recent archives. In my never humble opinion, I don't think it's a good idea to repeat it here right now. I think this is the best way to keep TMP nice and safe. ((((TMP))))
But, please don't let this dampen the conversation. It's definately a good topic to hash out!!
Emmy
Posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 18:13:32
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by toomuchpain on April 15, 2004, at 17:40:15
No sweat toomuchpain. I understand why you wouldn't want to talk about it again. I'll check the archives. And again, I'm sorry that you had a bad experience.
Posted by EmmyS on April 15, 2004, at 18:48:04
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 18:13:32
From now on, please refer to me as Mother Hen Emily. :-)
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 15, 2004, at 19:26:44
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » Fallen4MyT, posted by BigFish on April 15, 2004, at 15:18:17
Hey BigFish :) Thanks for not dissing my T...I do not care if he is unethical or any of that and like yourself and well aware of transferance and all it implies. It simply isn't the case for me, even my T said so :) I do think sometimes you can love or be in love with a client or T and NOT have it be transferance. For me I am a big girl and am oddly stable enough for the rough waters that COULD come up when/if we cross anymore lines....and can weather it I feel as I have had a broken heart in the past (say it came to that) and may again in the future for ANYONE. I AM willing to go ALL the way with this and my T...I am waiting on his bigger move if you get my drift. I guess what you need to ask yourself is can you take whatever comes no matter what? I know I can. I am also ready to be open to a good long lasting relationship with him. Many do get hurt in these situations sadly and many go on to become Mrs T...I have known of some cases. YOU had a opening with him on the friend and love deal..Can you ask for him to expound on that?? Can you toss out you care for him??? There is so much I could say and share but I feel like a target on the boards because I have a more relaxed attitude on this subject. I do not debate the issue with well meaning people who are RIGHT in MANY though not MY case....so I say little and am to be honest happy with my budding relationship with my T...I do know I am shy and missed a few moves ...gimme time and :) How about you? You less shy?
Posted by joslynn on April 16, 2004, at 9:23:46
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 15, 2004, at 19:26:44
Personally, I don't think I would want to be a Mrs. T in those situations. I would always wonder, if he could not honor the ethics of his own profession (by not coming on to a patient), then how will he honor the marriage vows? When he is with an attractive client, is he going to make overtures to her like he did with me when I was a client? I would always wonder about that. Also, if it came out how/when the relationship w/ me started, he could lose his career.
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 16, 2004, at 10:24:25
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by joslynn on April 16, 2004, at 9:23:46
For me if I became Mrs T I would have done so after the two year period they have thus he would still have his job. As to looking over my back for other women that I believe holds in any and ALL relationships...will they cheat, will they go with someone more attracrtive more this or that. I guess I am too solid in my self esteem to worry on that. But again I know the man I am talking about and many T's who decide tio cross well your are right SOME can and will use people and mis-use them. My situation and I say this not because I am naive but because not every person fits every mold. I know the person I am speaking of so I will and do feel safe with this :)
> Personally, I don't think I would want to be a Mrs. T in those situations. I would always wonder, if he could not honor the ethics of his own profession (by not coming on to a patient), then how will he honor the marriage vows? When he is with an attractive client, is he going to make overtures to her like he did with me when I was a client? I would always wonder about that. Also, if it came out how/when the relationship w/ me started, he could lose his career.
>
>
>
Posted by terrics on April 16, 2004, at 18:12:23
In reply to Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 17:30:22
I think It is mutual, but probably not sexual. terrics
Posted by BigFish on April 16, 2004, at 20:40:22
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 16, 2004, at 10:24:25
>>As to looking over my back for other women that I believe holds in any and ALL relationships...will they cheat, will they go with someone more attracrtive more this or that.
Yeah, that's anywhere and everywhere. I think the strong reaction people have to this topic is due to the exploitation that can and does occur in many cases. If, for example, someone has had a break with reality or has gone to a therapist for help dealing with a traumatic event, then a therapist making a move on them is taking advantage of a vulnerable person. That's pretty sick. However, it is possible to have two consenting adults participating in the therapist/patient relationship. It's not just the patient having emotional reactions in the relationship. It's a two way street. Therapists are people and susceptible to falling in love just like anyone else. The heart knows no reason. Here's an interesting page on John Haule's work...
Posted by BigFish on April 16, 2004, at 20:52:02
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 15, 2004, at 19:26:44
>YOU had a opening with him on the friend and love deal..Can you ask for him to expound on that?? Can you toss out you care for him???
I'm so shy on the topic of attraction. I'm trying to get up the nerve... Don't know quite what to do!
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 13:10:06
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 16, 2004, at 10:24:25
Do you think something will really happen with him? That is just mind-blowing for someone like me who is not in a situation remotely like that. Would you go so far as to terminate to get started on the two-year period?
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 22, 2004, at 0:26:33
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 16, 2004, at 20:52:02
That shy deal held me back a lot too still can but you can talk in a sly not shy way and say how frustrated you are when you want a man...and cannot say it, how you hope he will make it easier for you...worked for me :D
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 22, 2004, at 0:29:21
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » Fallen4MyT, posted by Pfinstegg on April 18, 2004, at 13:10:06
Lol P....YES...AND YES. :D It is more so a when as to will we SUPER :D
> Do you think something will really happen with him? That is just mind-blowing for someone like me who is not in a situation remotely like that. Would you go so far as to terminate to get started on the two-year period?
Posted by Pfinstegg on April 22, 2004, at 10:13:27
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » Pfinstegg, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 22, 2004, at 0:29:21
This is just amazing! From what you've said previously, you have done a lot a good therapeutic work with him, also, and are feeling much better. Do you feel well now, or would you want additional therapy, perhaps from someone else, for your own issues? Do you worry at all that the therapeutic encounter intensifies love and sexual feelings tremendously, sometimes, for both people - and that they might wane in an ordinary setting?
Posted by BigFish on April 22, 2004, at 16:13:05
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » BigFish, posted by Fallen4MyT on April 22, 2004, at 0:26:33
Thanks for the idea, Fallen4MyT. I just need to get up my courage... There have been openings to bring it up and I'm so nervous that I don't see them until I reflect on our appointments. Not too keen on the idea of rejection, either.
> That shy deal held me back a lot too still can but you can talk in a sly not shy way and say how frustrated you are when you want a man...and cannot say it, how you hope he will make it easier for you...worked for me :D
Posted by Fallen4MyT on April 26, 2004, at 1:03:41
In reply to Re: Is the attraction mutual? » Fallen4MyT, posted by Pfinstegg on April 22, 2004, at 10:13:27
I do not think I would seek additional therapy...I will never be what we think of as "well" because of my past but I am OK for ME...if that makes sense...so no I would not see anyone else....and well I always think no matter what, a relationship is always at the high point of the rollercoaster...in the beginning..I really dont think I will/do/would feel the relationship is more intense cause he is my T...I am not in denial either I just feel about him as I have others I have been in love with and if it ends badly so be it it won't be the first or last time I didnt get a fairybook ending...We are both old enough to deal with the loss should it come to pass. I am simply in love with a man who happens to be my T..,he could have been my car mechainic and I would feel the same.
> This is just amazing! From what you've said previously, you have done a lot a good therapeutic work with him, also, and are feeling much better. Do you feel well now, or would you want additional therapy, perhaps from someone else, for your own issues? Do you worry at all that the therapeutic encounter intensifies love and sexual feelings tremendously, sometimes, for both people - and that they might wane in an ordinary setting?
Posted by shadows721 on April 26, 2004, at 20:20:05
In reply to Is the attraction mutual?, posted by BigFish on April 13, 2004, at 17:30:22
I know I am going to be jumped on about this. Yes, it's human nature to be "attracted" to another person. However, in the t setting, no one should cross the boundary line. Clients get obsessed with their t with their own self created fantasy. If a t responds, that's considered abuse. A client is considered vunerable to a t. They share their most personal information. If a t says they were in love with me, I would get out of the treatment.
I saw a t do this in an outpatient clinic setting with several female clients. He would outright flirt with them. Interesting enough, none of the clients reported him. I guess they thought they were the "only" ones. I confronted one of the women. She told me how wonderful this guy was and that she was "in love" with him. I said, "yeah, you and 4 other women here." It was outright abuse in my eyes. He was taking advantage of these women with sex abuse history. I reported this joker and he was gone.
There are abusers in every field. Therapy isn't any different. My brother was in therapy and his t asked him out on a date. Again, that's totally inappropriate behavior. Unfortunately, he never went back to therapy. Perpetrators are infact attracted to the vunerable.
I have heard about therapist and clients having sex in their "so called" therapy sessions. Again, it was people who were vunerable. Don't fool yourselves. This is abuse in a very ugly way.
If a therapist is saying he is in love or attracted to a patient, he has crossed the line. He isn't being a therapist anymore. They need to pull themselves out of this setting. It's not right, but there are many of them out there. If they tell you that, how many other vunerable clients do you think they will do this too? Stop this cycle of abuse to yourself and others.
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