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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 22:31:52
Given my penchant to emotionally divorce, or to run at trouble in a relationship, (although to be fair to myself I also tend to cling to good relationships forever and ever) why have I stayed with my therapist for going on nine years? The last four have been pretty uniformly terrific, the first five, not so much....
I quit several times but was back within a couple of weeks. The closest I ever came to actually leaving, when I made a genuine effort to find a new therapist but was sent back to work through my transference with my old one, was when my pdoc blurted out that I had schizotypal personality disorder. He hadn't seen me more than once or twice, so the information had to come from my therapist. It was really hard to live with that judgement from him.
But the time I really probably should have terminated with him, I didn't because I was just in too bad a place to find anyone. Perhaps I should have turned myself into the emergency room, but I think I'd have to have already tried to kill myself before I'd be that sure that I *would* try to kill myself. It was the first month postpartum. I was severely, hormonally, suicidally depressed. Not thinking terribly clearly. And having to fight terrible urges to do really stupid things to myself. And my therapist was just not there for me. He forgot to return phone calls when he said he would. When he did return them he could only talk for a minute, tho I had gone to great lengths to clear the room so that I could tell him all the things I was afraid I would do to myself. But he never had time to listen. I finally half yelled that I wasn't expecting him to talk to me for free, could we please schedule a phone session or two because I wasn't supposed to drive, etc. etc. And so we did, but he was typically for him really awful on the phone. At that period of time, it was actually dangerous for me to have him as a therapist, because I and my husband were relying on him to know when I needed help, and trusting his judgement. And he just wasn't willing to listen. I should have left then, but was in no shape to find another therapist. And I wasn't honest with my family about how serious it was, so they couldn't do anything either.
But after five years together, I finally learned to trust him. And now we have a pretty good relationship. (He still does bad phone, though). I still wonder though. Why did I stick it out? What was there about him that *did* cause me to uncharactistically continue to try? Why did I fight and battle my way to a relationship with him? Telling him when he hurt me, struggling to learn to relate to him, and to get him to relate back.
Why *did* it feel safe with him, when looking back I can see that there were times when it was far from safe with him. And I wasn't unaware of these things at the time.
At one time he didn't like me (he says he just didn't know me well enough yet), and I knew it. But he treated me well anyway. And so I trusted him. That's what I tell myself. That's my therapy relation story myth. But is that a good enough reason?
I suppose in some ways it doesn't matter now. We do have a good relationship. He is now someone who provides a good secure base. He understands me now, and tho he yells at me more now than he did then, he also understands me better and dislikes me less, maybe even likes me a teeny bit.
But still I wonder. And maybe this applies to marriages as well. For those of you in long term therapeutic (or other) relationships, what was it that kept you coming back when things weren't good?
Posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:29:35
In reply to So why have I stayed?, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 22:31:52
Was he your first therapist?
Posted by naiad on January 21, 2004, at 4:18:05
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:29:35
Hi Dinah,
I am much more likely to end relationships prematurely than to stay long term. Throughout my childhood and into my adlut life I have moved across the country every +/- five years (corporate stuff). My friendships are always interrupted and I haven't made the effort to stay connected once I have moved. However, I have been married for 22 years, so I guess that qualifies as a long term relationship. I have been with my therpaist for almost 10 months (a mere speck of sand compared with your longevity!) but can foresee a long term relationship with him, that is if the finances stay secure.
A question about your therapist -- Do you like him? I mean I know you like him and think he is terrific but can you remember back to your initial reaction to his personality? Is he warm, or chilly, does his syntax strike you in a particular way, etc. ? Just wondering if there is a basic personality attraction or if your attachment is based on his behavior/professional style.
It struck me that it took five years of discomfort before you really trusted him. I find it amazing that you would stick with him that long before bonding. So why did you stay? My speculation is that you were so depressed in the beginning that you knew you had to seek treatment. Sounds like it was a life preservation decision. Then slowly you realized you trusted him. HUGE! Once you trust someone there is an attachment that enables relationship and connection. Your therpaist provided the environment where you could experience those feelings in safety.
This, of course, is just my musings on your thought provoking post.
You aren't thinking of terminating, are you??? My recollection is that you will NEVER terminate. Sounds like a good plan to me.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 6:52:14
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » Dinah, posted by fallsfall on January 20, 2004, at 23:29:35
Technically, no. My psychiatrist in my early teens saw me once or twice a week for "talk therapy". We played cards while I mentally cursed him, my family, and most of the female student body of my school.
Does that count? :)
My therapist says he played an important role by drawing some of my anger onto him and away from my family. Glad he earned his fee.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 7:09:37
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed?, posted by naiad on January 21, 2004, at 4:18:05
Oh heavens, no. I'm not thinking of terminating, ever. I asked him yesterday if he was asking the question to find out how he got to be the lucky one who was stuck with me.
I think you're right. The problems didn't start right off. I didn't know what to do in therapy of course, and was nervous. But he did some CBT work that helped my panic attacks. I laughed at how much he sounded like Stuart Smalley sometimes, with pscho-babbley words. But he had helped me. And his voice was very soothing, his demeanor gentle and calm. Although he fell asleep an awful lot.
So there was early relief. Then the depression set in, and I knew I did need help and just didn't know what else to do when the problems started. And once the meds started, my moods were all over the place (or maybe that was meds + hormones + depression). I think he was totally bewildered a lot of times by me. But when I quit, he didn't show any anger, and when I came back he was calm and nonjudgmental. That was an act, I later learned. (I originally wrote that "When he quit, he didn't show my anger..." Freudian slip?)
So there was something inherently calming and safety producing about his voice and manner. And there was the fact that he had helped me early on for me to hold onto in hope that he could help me. And I was in too much trouble in the worst of times to do much to find a new therapist.
Is it that simple? It's astonishing really. That I held on for five years without trust. That he was later able to get past the feelings that I had evoked in him during those five years. Once, after the five years, when he was yet again quoting something I had said to him when I left, I wrote him a letter asking him if he could ever get past the memory of who I had been to see who was sitting in front of him now. And to his eternal credit, he tried. And I think managed to a large extent.
And of course, if he had yelled at me as much then as he does now, I probably wouldn't have stayed. So I should see his yelling as a sign of his connection and comfort with me, I guess. :) Because when he didn't like me, he didn't yell. He fell asleep instead.
I just thought the question was one of those that he either deliberately or inadvertantly sets me to thinking about. Not only about the relationship between us, but how I handle relationships in general.
Posted by lookdownfish on January 21, 2004, at 7:27:34
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » naiad, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 7:09:37
Dinah, when you say he yells at you, do you mean figuratively rather than literally? He gets annoyed with you or does he actually raise his voice? I don't like the sound of that, it upsets me if my therapist even gets slightly frustrated with me.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 7:51:18
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » Dinah, posted by lookdownfish on January 21, 2004, at 7:27:34
Well, yelling might be an overstatement, but he does raise his voice.
And I've even gotten him to admit when he's angry instead of using the "frustrated" euphemism. :)
Posted by tabitha on January 21, 2004, at 8:34:55
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » naiad, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 7:09:37
>I think you're right. The problems didn't start right off. I didn't know what to do in therapy of course, and was nervous. But he did some CBT work that helped my panic attacks. I laughed at how much he sounded like Stuart Smalley sometimes, with pscho-babbley words. But he had helped me. And his voice was very soothing, his demeanor gentle and calm. Although he fell asleep an awful lot.
That paints a sweet picture to me-- even the falling asleep part. No wonder you stayed with him.
> Once, after the five years, when he was yet again quoting something I had said to him when I left, I wrote him a letter asking him if he could ever get past the memory of who I had been to see who was sitting in front of him now. And to his eternal credit, he tried.
That is so awesome. I love your stories of how you've bravely confronted him. Maybe you could do a few sessions with mine and shape her up a bit? I'm not so good at identifying her failings.
Posted by judy1 on January 21, 2004, at 10:49:49
In reply to So why have I stayed?, posted by Dinah on January 20, 2004, at 22:31:52
I think you have already identified the reason why you stay (and most of us) in your relationship- trust. for me that is an extremely difficult emotion to establish, one that takes years. once that's in place you can handle anything (except of course a betrayal of that trust). it sounds like your therapist has never given you a reason NOT to trust him, and that's why you continue on. I'm happy for you that you have such an important relationship like that in your life- judy
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 12:25:47
In reply to Re: So why have I stayed? » Dinah, posted by judy1 on January 21, 2004, at 10:49:49
Posted by naiad on January 21, 2004, at 13:20:37
In reply to Re: Now... How do I generalize? :) (nm) » judy1, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 12:25:47
Dinah,
How do you generalize trust? I don't think that is possible or even necessarily a goal for me, at least. I certainly don't trust very many people but I do trust a few. In therapy I 'm learning to communicate better by understanding my feelings, so the people I let into my life know the real me. If they know me and let me know them, then there is a basis for trust (unless, of course, when I get to know them I find out they are despicable). Maybe this is too simplistic.
One thing you know, is that for you it takes a lot of history to establish trust. I bet the quality of the trust is pretty extraordinary, though.
Posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 18:58:54
In reply to Re: Now... How do I generalize? :), posted by naiad on January 21, 2004, at 13:20:37
True enough, once I attach, you can call me Barnacle Dinah. I still have a friend from middle school. :)
Posted by naiad on January 22, 2004, at 6:46:45
In reply to Re: Now... How do I generalize? :) » naiad, posted by Dinah on January 21, 2004, at 18:58:54
This is the end of the thread.
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