![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 25 of 34. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Therapy was a disaster. I was trying to do what he wanted me to do. I came up with an ADL (Activities of Daily Living) plan that he doesn't have to monitor. So I will focus on taking care of myself, but I'll only give him a 1 sentance update each week.
I did some journalling yesterday when I was feeling needy and searching for him on the internet. I read it to him - except for the first line which said "I was searching for my new therapist. At least I wasn't searching for my old therapist". I paraphrased that to be "I was feeling very needy, but I was looking for you, not my old therapist. That's progress". When I finished reading he asked "What do you mean you were looking for me?". The whole point was that I wanted to talk about WHY I was feeling needy - not what I did because I was feeling needy. If I fix what makes me needy, then I won't have to worry about *doing* anything. I said "I'd rather talk about that on another day". Guess what he said? (answer: "Why"). "Because I told myself that I could tell you the rest of this if I didn't have to talk about that". "Why don't you want to talk about that?" and "You realize that talking about things like this is the reason we are here?" and "You really want to sit with this for three days until your next appointment?" (answer: "Yes, that would be easier than talking about it") and (when I tried to just talk about something else) "It's hard to talk about other things when you aren't talking about what needs to be talked about" and "What will you do next time?" (answer: I'll talk about something else and hope you don't bring it up") and "I'm not telling you that you have to talk about it. You can talk about whatever you want" (yeah, right) and on and on and on.
I never did tell him, but he knows. He knows I searched (this wasn't the first time, but this time I tried a different search engine in hopes of getting different results). I told him that I think he'll punish me. I told him that I didn't do anything wrong - I am afraid of being punished even though I didn't do anything wrong (and no, this isn't a theme in my life). He asked if there was more to this than the connection with my old therapist (answer: "No").
I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I'm needy. I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I can't keep my kitchen clean and do my laundry (the ADL stuff was to convince him that I can take care of that stuff, so that we'll be able to do "real" stuff in therapy). I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I searched for him. I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I read Psychology books before bed instead of novels.
Gee, does this seem like frantic efforts to avoid abandonment?
I know it isn't rational. I told him all about my searching for my old therapist the first time I met with him - if he didn't like patients who search he shouldn't have agreed to work with me. I bet he's loving it - all this tension in the relationship. Why couldn't he say "OK, we can talk about that some other time. So the reason you can't get your laundry done is...?" That sounds trivial, but it isn't - I couldn't do my laundry because I am afraid of getting better because the last time I was starting to feel better was the beginning of the end with my old therapist. Can't we work on why it is OK for me to get better? Because if I can feel OK about getting better, then I can take care of myself and he can do the "real" therapy work and then I could be permanently better.
I know this is ridiculous. What *am* I going to do until Thursday?
Posted by Dinah on October 6, 2003, at 14:04:42
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
((((Fallsfall)))
Ouch. I can tell you're hurting. Don't let it overwhelm you. Or at least try not to. Here's the time for some self-soothing skills. Distraction maybe?
My approach when this sort of thing happens, and yes, it happens to me too, is to write a long long letter to him telling him all the things I want to tell him. Slightly different than journalling because it's addressed to him. Then I take a klonopin, fall to sleep, and call him once or twice to demand reassurance that everything will be ok. All right, so my way isn't all that healthy.
For what it's worth, it doesn't sound like he's angry about the searching. I think he just wanted to talk about it, and about the why, and what you were thinking, etc. He knows that it was central to losing your last therapeutic relationship, so I'm sure he just wants to process it. And he does press when he wants you to address something, doesn't he. :) That's not altogether a bad thing.
Don't worry. We all search for our therapists. I search for my doctors too. And other people in authority over me. I always want to make sure there are no axe murderers among them. Who among us hasn't searched on Dr. Bob? He won't fire you for that. Or if he does, he'll have to fire everyone. It's public record.
(P.S. That's why we all use pseudonyms on Babble. It shows up in Google searches too. Do a search on Fallsfall and prepare to be dismayed. :) )
Posted by DaisyM on October 6, 2003, at 19:22:49
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Take heart! You are soooo not alone.
When, after almost 6 months, I finally told my therapist something I had never, ever told anyone...I flipped out(internally, silently) after the session. I felt like I HAD to keep tabs on him so that 1) he wouldn't leave me, and 2) he wouldn't tell anyone. Now, HOW I was going to do this was well beyond me (stalking seemed like a bad idea :))so I just stewed about it for several days and finally wrote a long email to him, which of course I wouldn't, couldn't send. But, I felt better.
I've read that there are primitive parts of the brain that will internalize experiences, even day-dreams in such a way that the body feels like they actually occured. It is a stress release technique...imagine doing what you want...in the way you want (tell him)...and it may bring some relief. Imagine the acceptance I'm sure you would get, not blame or judgement. Go back and read parts of In Session. It will remind you that everyone is apt to be needy and express it in different ways. Imagine yourself saying "I'm afraid of feeling better because..."
Sometimes I notice that I'm having a "good" day, no bad feelings, no pressing sadness. And then I think, "hmmm, wonder where they (those feelings) went, and when are they going to clobber me again." There are also parts of me that don't want to give up these feelings because I have spent most of my life ignoring feelings...just pushing through. Maybe you are wondering the same? Does feeling better now mean feeling worse later? Just a thought...
-D
Posted by jay on October 7, 2003, at 9:05:54
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Hi:
From my experience, the ADL aspect should be a bit lower on the list. There are other goals and actions that may have to first be looked after.
It's like this...imagine if you had a broken back and they tried to make you adhere to completing ADL's. Simply ridiculous. Now, there are variations, and you could start out with just one...yes one thing on a daily basis (or as often as you can.) If you have problems with frustration and anger, then it may be best to get back to your doctor about that. There are good meds that can help with these things. I don't know how you feel about them, but a number of the newer antipsychotics have worked wonder in many people I know. Many have had anger, frustration issues, and antidepressants and even just benzos, sometimes can cause this whole new slew of problems.
For myself, even as a former social worker, I knew all of the things that had to be done, but my mind, body, etc was in such a state of shock and pain, I couldn't accomplish even the smallest of tasks.
So, tell your therapist you want to break down your ADL's into much, much smaller fragments, and speak with your doctor about your intense frustration.
Best wishes,
Jay
Posted by Poet on October 7, 2003, at 9:28:10
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Fallsfall,
I sympathize with you, here, you were being honest and admitted you were searching for information on your therapist and he demanded to know why.
Maybe he was genuinely surpised that you would do that, but I doubt it, I think he was more curious about what you found out, then why you wanted to find it out.
Unfortunately he doesn't seem like he's going to let go of this issue. I have heard the "you are in control" line so much I can say it along with her. We know who's really in control, don't we?
If I were you, I would just stick to talking about why you feel needy and your fear of abandonment. You are right that what you did isn't important, it's why you did it that is. He should see that.
I don't think he would mind that you read psychology books. My therapist recommends and even lends me books on psychology/self-esteem, your therapist shouldn't be threatened by your choice in reading.
Poet
Posted by Adia on October 7, 2003, at 11:56:27
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Dear fallsfall,
Thinking of you and sending you support till Thrusday...
He won't leave you because of that...I know the fear of being abandoned and I struggle with that all the time, every time I admit I am needy, every time I share something and every time I keep quiet.
What I do if I feel it will be hard to get through till next session, is maybe write a letter, explaining what I feel or what I want to say and couldn't...
Maybe you could write him a letter and explain why you didn't want to talk about that or thought that it would be better to discuss the reasons...?
I am sure it will all work out...
Don't worry about having searched...I did the same with my t :-) but didn't find anything. Just her daughter's ICQ number! and I told her and we even end up laughing about it.Your therapist won't leave you because of this...
I hope you can talk about all your fears with him next time...I know how hard it is to wait in-between sessions, maybe you can write to him ...
I made a drawing for my therapist these days in-between sessions and it helped me get through..:-)Sending you my support,
Adia.
> Therapy was a disaster. I was trying to do what he wanted me to do. I came up with an ADL (Activities of Daily Living) plan that he doesn't have to monitor. So I will focus on taking care of myself, but I'll only give him a 1 sentance update each week.
>
> I did some journalling yesterday when I was feeling needy and searching for him on the internet. I read it to him - except for the first line which said "I was searching for my new therapist. At least I wasn't searching for my old therapist". I paraphrased that to be "I was feeling very needy, but I was looking for you, not my old therapist. That's progress". When I finished reading he asked "What do you mean you were looking for me?". The whole point was that I wanted to talk about WHY I was feeling needy - not what I did because I was feeling needy. If I fix what makes me needy, then I won't have to worry about *doing* anything. I said "I'd rather talk about that on another day". Guess what he said? (answer: "Why"). "Because I told myself that I could tell you the rest of this if I didn't have to talk about that". "Why don't you want to talk about that?" and "You realize that talking about things like this is the reason we are here?" and "You really want to sit with this for three days until your next appointment?" (answer: "Yes, that would be easier than talking about it") and (when I tried to just talk about something else) "It's hard to talk about other things when you aren't talking about what needs to be talked about" and "What will you do next time?" (answer: I'll talk about something else and hope you don't bring it up") and "I'm not telling you that you have to talk about it. You can talk about whatever you want" (yeah, right) and on and on and on.
>
> I never did tell him, but he knows. He knows I searched (this wasn't the first time, but this time I tried a different search engine in hopes of getting different results). I told him that I think he'll punish me. I told him that I didn't do anything wrong - I am afraid of being punished even though I didn't do anything wrong (and no, this isn't a theme in my life). He asked if there was more to this than the connection with my old therapist (answer: "No").
>
> I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I'm needy. I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I can't keep my kitchen clean and do my laundry (the ADL stuff was to convince him that I can take care of that stuff, so that we'll be able to do "real" stuff in therapy). I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I searched for him. I'm afraid he'll throw me out because I read Psychology books before bed instead of novels.
>
> Gee, does this seem like frantic efforts to avoid abandonment?
>
> I know it isn't rational. I told him all about my searching for my old therapist the first time I met with him - if he didn't like patients who search he shouldn't have agreed to work with me. I bet he's loving it - all this tension in the relationship. Why couldn't he say "OK, we can talk about that some other time. So the reason you can't get your laundry done is...?" That sounds trivial, but it isn't - I couldn't do my laundry because I am afraid of getting better because the last time I was starting to feel better was the beginning of the end with my old therapist. Can't we work on why it is OK for me to get better? Because if I can feel OK about getting better, then I can take care of myself and he can do the "real" therapy work and then I could be permanently better.
>
> I know this is ridiculous. What *am* I going to do until Thursday?
Posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him » fallsfall, posted by Adia on October 7, 2003, at 11:56:27
Thank you for your support.
I have called him, and I'm waiting for him to call me back. The pain anticipating abaondonment is more than I can deal with. Whether or not I searched on him is a trivial detail at this point. Even why I was needy is trivial.
I know that what I did isn't bad. But, in essence, my last therapist threw me out for exactly that. I'm trying to believe that she is the exception, but I guess I won't know until I find out how he reacts.
I may try writing - it often helps me sort things out. I'm just afraid that I would simply obsess "He's going to throw me out, he's going to throw me out." That wouldn't be very theraputic.
Trying to breathe deeply and relax...
Posted by kara lynne on October 7, 2003, at 18:57:26
In reply to I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 6, 2003, at 13:51:07
Hi fallsfall,
I'm sorry you're feeling so bad. You're right; your therapist knew about the searching from the beginning, so I don't know why it would shock him now--or be any cause to abandon you.What did you mean when you said your other therapist abandoned you for searching? Sorry if I've missed a huge chunk, but I didn't know that was what triggered the end of the therapy. It seemed like you were aware that you were too dependent and realized you needed to get out of the relationship--maybe it was over a similar incident.
When you say you are searching--what exactly are you searching for? Just any information that will bring you closer to knowing your therapist? Details about their lives? And here's a bad question: do you ever find anything? I think it's perfectly natural to want to find things out about a person you have that much contact with--you're probably the only patient that admits it. There's so much shame around everything--now searching equals stalking or something because of the secrecy about it. And like everything else coated with shame and secrecy, it intensifies the compulsion. Do you ever ask him questions directly or doesn't he go there?
I'm glad you have a call into him. Good move. Please let us know what happens. I hate to sound trite, but maybe this is progress--and therefore very painful.
((((fallsfall))))
Posted by kara lynne on October 7, 2003, at 19:01:27
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
Sorry if I focused too much on the searching; I just read your last post and saw that you said it was a trivial detail by now.
Hang in there!
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:05:50
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
FallsFall,
I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.
Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.
Dee.
Posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:06:41
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 12:53:09
FallsFall,
I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.
Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.
Dee.
Posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 20:56:40
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by kara lynne on October 7, 2003, at 18:57:26
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20030407/msgs/221129.html
After that I spent months feeling that she was mad at me and frantically trying to do the right thing. I was suicidal and the only thing that made me feel better was thinking about switching therapists. She thought it was a good idea. I did interviews and gave her a summary of what people said (like they thought I should work it out with her). She asked what I told them was the reason I was leaving. I told her because she was mad at me and I couldn't do it anymore. She said "gee, I thought you were leaving because I had taught you all I know". Then she said that she wasn't aware that I was miserable for the past 4 months. That was the end. I never went back. So, did she kick me out for searching? Not really, but from my perspective I had to leave because of a problem that began with my searching.
I just wanted comfort. To feel connected. I didn't want to invade her privacy. I was lonely.
I still just want comfort.
My therapist called back. He said that we'd have to talk about why I keep doing things that make me unhappy on Thursday. Somehow, that isn't comfort. He did say that he wasn't going to repeat history (I haven't said I'm searching, but he knows - so he is saying that he won't be mad. I should interpret that to mean that he won't abandon me, but there is more to the abandonment fear than the searching. Everything I do seems wrong - and therefore everything I do seems like it would be cause for him to abandon me.)
I feel like everytime I have a problem and ask him for help he says that I should go fix the problem myself. I'm not seeing the help. If I could fix everything myself, I wouldn't have to see him.
Feeling very hopeless and alone. And I have no idea what to say on Thursday. No idea.
Thanks, Kara.
Posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 21:01:42
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » fallsfall, posted by deirdrehbrt on October 7, 2003, at 19:05:50
> FallsFall,
> I don't know which is more true, but I think that both of these are:
> You are so incredibly hard on yourself that you have little chance of success in your eyes while others are simply amazed.Possible. But if I'm so wonderful, why is it that I can't get better?
> Your need for connection, especially with people who are there to help you, leads to a need for reassurance for which you are desperate.
Yes.
> Most likely, your therapist has seen nothing for which he will want to drop you as a patient. Maybe you are worried about what you did, and maybe what is going on is the fear of the last time this happened.
This is not the only time I have feared abandonment, and I worry about more than just the searching. Everything that I do seems bad, so everything could be cause for him to abandon me.
> I have seen quite a few different therapists. I have even had a therapist that had me sign a treatment contract. I have never seen or heard a therapist say that it was impropper for me to find a phone number in a book, to look for information that they may have published, or placed in a public forum.
> I think that if they did state rules that forbade that, then I would be obligated to do so, but if they didn't, then they there is no harm in looking.
> Please take care of yourself sweety. Please stop looking for reasons to beat yourself up.But they are so easy to find.
> Dee.
You are sweet, Dee. Thank you.
Posted by HannahW on October 7, 2003, at 22:16:40
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » deirdrehbrt, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 21:01:42
I'm glad for the opportunity to reach out to you, for a change. But I wish you weren't feeling so badly.
I think you're right that in the grand scheme of this mysterious thing we call therapy and healing, the searching is trivial. (Except in my case, where it's unforgiveable. I'm amazed that people have the courage to admit it to their therapists. I doubt I EVER will! Maybe I wouldn't feel so guilty if I didn't find so much stuff!) :)
You truly amaze me, and I'm hard to impress. You're a faithful and giving poster, not to mention very insightful and intelligent. You've set me straight more than once, and it has literally set my life on a new and better course. I know that praise from other people doesn't fix anything when you feel crummy about yourself, but try to believe in the sincerity of the people who admire and are grateful to you. I've done a lot of reading on this board, including the archives--especially lately :( --It's so easy to see how loved you are by people on this board. Try to accept and internalize that. Feel it and embrace it as the result of who you are and all you have to give.
Posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 0:45:02
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him, posted by fallsfall on October 7, 2003, at 20:56:40
Oh fallsfall,
I'm reading and reading and just with I could comfort you. It's so easy for me to see it in you, that you are torturing yourself and you didn't do anything to deserve it. Agonizing over details and memories, trying madly for clarity-- the booby traps of the mind. I share that fear of abandonment so it's easy for me to get caught there too, and once your there it's like quicksand. But if you think your way in, there must be a way out (or so I'm told).I don't think anything replaces comfort except comfort. I think if you got that, in one form or another, you might stop beating yourself up. Teddy bears? Friends? A nice hot bath? An extra Sonata?
I wish I could give it to you. I hope you hear Hannah's words--you have given so much here. You deserve it back with many extra scoops.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:05:10
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » fallsfall, posted by HannahW on October 7, 2003, at 22:16:40
Hannah,
You did get through to me (a little). For a moment I feel like there might be hope that I am worthwhile. I'll go to the library this afternoon - they love me, too. So for a little while today, I'll be OK.
Why am I so convinced the rest of the time that I am so bad? Why, if I detect unhappiness from someone does every subsequent action grow exponentially in importance? Once I think I am failing someone, any miniscule fault I see makes me spiral into evilness.
I'm going to print your post and carry it with me.
Thank you.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:17:25
In reply to (((fallsfall))), posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 0:45:02
Oh Kara,
Thank you for caring and understanding.
Teddy bears and ice cream comfort me, but they don't comfort my soul.
Yes, I am torturing myself. A kind of self injury? I don't know how to stop.
Hugs help
Posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 12:17:01
In reply to Re: I wouldn't (couldn't) tell him - All » HannahW, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:05:10
When I was really struggling with my self esteem, which I did for a long, long time, one of the things that helped me (although I hated the exercise) was to list ten things about me that I sorta liked--and here's the scary part--and then I shared them with someone I trusted. (In my case, it was my husband.) He affirmed everything on the list, one at a time, and even talked about each item and gave examples of how it was obviously true. Although self-esteem doesn't come from the accolades of other people, it was very affirming for me to have someone acknowledge and agree with the things that I *thought* might be true about me, but needed someone to help me fully embrace those things as absolutely true. We did that several times, and I eventually came to believe that the qualities I *sorta* liked but thought might not be true, really were true.
This probably wouldn't work for everyone, but it did for me. If you don't have anyone you trust enough to do that with, and you wanted to do it, you could post here. Some of them we wouldn't be able to affirm or discredit--like what great hair you have--but other things we could definitely affirm for you.
I really hope you figure this one out. Is it your primary focus in therapy right now? So many other problems stem from self-esteem issues that it's important to resolve. And you WILL resolve it and come to know what a terrific person you are, and how much you have to offer.
Posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 18:23:39
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))) » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 7:17:25
I'm sorry I can't comfort your soul. I thought since you've offered teddies and ice cream to me they might work for you. :(
I hope your feeling better today, though. Yes, well put: that kind of torture is self injury. I was there myself last night after the incident at the doctor's office. My counselor pointed out today that who I should have been angry was with him. Funny, that never occured to me.
Posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 21:44:10
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))), posted by kara lynne on October 8, 2003, at 18:23:39
Yes, Kara. Today is a little better. Think of me at 3PM EDT tomorrow, though. Maybe I'll line up a ride home in case I can't drive. There are TWO ice cream places within walking distance from his office. But I have to move my car every two hours.
It's hard to be angry at others (like your doctor) when we are so close and convenient (and, an expression I heard at work was "Round up the usual suspects" - we have to get our names off that list).
Posted by Adia on October 8, 2003, at 22:58:21
In reply to Re: (((fallsfall))) » kara lynne, posted by fallsfall on October 8, 2003, at 21:44:10
Dear fallsfall,
Just wanted to wish you the best for your session tomorrow...
Lots of support and a safe hug,
Adia.> Yes, Kara. Today is a little better. Think of me at 3PM EDT tomorrow, though. Maybe I'll line up a ride home in case I can't drive. There are TWO ice cream places within walking distance from his office. But I have to move my car every two hours.
>
> It's hard to be angry at others (like your doctor) when we are so close and convenient (and, an expression I heard at work was "Round up the usual suspects" - we have to get our names off that list).
>
>
Posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 23:13:30
In reply to To fallsfall... , posted by Adia on October 8, 2003, at 22:58:21
You've probably been reading over in Social, but just in case, check it out. You are so LOVED!
Posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
In reply to More to you, Falls..., posted by HannahW on October 8, 2003, at 23:13:30
Thanks for your support guys.
I brought Ativan with me, and two friend's phone numbers in case I couldn't drive home.
I think everything is OK. He isn't mad.
His dog's name was Skipper (because he has a boat - the doctor does, not the dog)
My head is still spinning. I'll post more tomorrow.
Babblers are wonderful.
Posted by HannahW on October 9, 2003, at 19:09:36
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
As soon as you're ready, I'm all ears. (or eyes!)
Posted by Dinah on October 9, 2003, at 19:23:12
In reply to I survived therapy, posted by fallsfall on October 9, 2003, at 19:01:13
That's wonderful. And I told you it would be. :)
Babblers are wonderful, you especially included.
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