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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 8 of 8. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 10:00:08
Hi All,
Would love to get your take on this. Briefly, I've had "boundary issues" with my therapist--her admission, she got "lost" with me.
Yesterday, I come in and there's a bouquet of flowers--still with a ribbon on them--not on a desk or table *but* sitting on the floor with a little bucket with water. Note: her office is large, with a large desk in the back area where these could have easily been placed. But they're nearly in the middle of she and I. So I ask, "Is it your birthday?" and she nods, coyly, nearly bursting, 'no' so then, "Your anniversay?" again another nod no, smiling, and then I say, "You can't tell me?" and she nods, Yes.
Like how Grammar School is that? I feel like I was baited or something. She had several minutes to go put them away but why leave them there for me to ask?
Then we went through some difficult stuff and at the end she says, "I'm afraid we'll have to end now" and I say,"Thank god." And she looks all hurt that I said this--gives me this pitiful look and I sorta feel like I have to apologize for having said this which I do (dumb, I know.)
Finally, she never used to wear revealing clothes. The last few sessions she's taken to wearing a rather tight sweater--unusual I thought but of course I kind of liked it (I'm gay, she used to be but is now married.) I've remarked that I like the color so she wore it again yesterday. Is this a coincidence? Am I being ultrasensitive and paranoid?
What do you guys think?
Thanks.
Rigby
Posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:05:59
In reply to Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed, posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 10:00:08
What does it mean to "get lost" with you? That she forgot her role as therapist and thought of herself as something else? I'm not catching the meaning of the phrase. And how long ago was her declaration? Have there been other boundary crossings since then?
The flowers do seem very odd. If she wanted them right smack in the middle so she could be reminded of them, that's inappropriate because she's not fully paying attention to you. If she wanted them there in the middle either so you would ask her about them, or so you would know that somebody thought she was special enough to send her flowers, that's also inappropriate. Weird. You should ask her about it. It's very "grammar school" to draw attention to something and then say you can't talk about it. Oh, Please! Even if the flowers were for something intimate, like thanks from her husband for a sexual favor, she could have just told you they were for a thank you. Even if you pressed and said, "What for?" She could still have just said, "I made him feel special" or something. There's no reason to be coy, I don't think.
I wouldn't read too much into the sweater just yet, unless she wore it twice in one week. If it shows up again, I'd get suspicious. It's possible that her more revealing clothing is just a new look for her, if she's feeling suddenly more confident about her body, or if she just got bored with a more modest look.
Do you have other reasons to think she might be trying to entice you?
Posted by Poet on October 3, 2003, at 16:06:17
In reply to Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed, posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 10:00:08
Rigby,
If she wears the sweater three weeks in a row it's not coincidence. Then again Carl Jung thought nothing is coincidence.
The flowers placed where they were, to me, says "look at my pretty flowers. Aren't you jealous someone else likes me?" Very teenage girlish behavior in my opinion.
If she does the flower thing again, just look her in the eye and say "shouldn't those be on a table, so no one trips over them?"
Poet
Posted by fallsfall on October 3, 2003, at 17:27:59
In reply to Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed, posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 10:00:08
This is a tough one.
I think that the correct answer is that you should tell her what you have told us. It is possible that she is behaving inappropriately (and doesn't know it?), or you could be wishing that she would behave that way, or you could just be seeing things that aren't there. I don't know. But I think that in all three events, it would be best to talk about it with her.
That said, I don't know if I could bring it up (and I talk about most anything). You would want to bring it up sooner rather than later - later it might be much too emotional a topic to really explore. Sometimes you can bring up a hard topic by talking about the fact that you have a topic to discuss, but you aren't comfortable discussing it. Therapists seem to do well with this - it lets them know you have something on your mind, and you can tell them a little bit at a time, as you feel comfortable. You could say "I'm feeling something strange in our relationship". You could say that you would like to feel special to her (if this is true - I always want to feel special with everyone), but you know that there are boundaries in a theraputic relationship and you don't quite know how to think about all of this. You can always stop giving details, and tell her that you'll bring it up later. She might ask a couple more questions on why you want to stop talking about it, but she should let you change the subject (I would think).
Please let us know how it goes. I'm really trying to understand Transference and Countertransference, but it is pretty confusing. The more I hear, the more I understand.
Posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 23:18:26
In reply to Re: Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed, posted by HannahW on October 3, 2003, at 14:05:59
Hi Hannah,
Thank you for your thoughts. "Got lost" are the words she used back in July when referring to her forgetting her boundaries with me. She said she's made a lot of "exceptions" for me (one was reducing my rate by 30%) and I guess another was her accepting a book and a plant I gave to her. She has also admitted that I am special to her and she feels closer to me than any of her other clients. She says that we are alot "alike" and in some cases that can be a problem--that we connect too well. Since then the boundaries seem to have been okay but then this latest thing made me feel that she's "getting lost" again.
> What does it mean to "get lost" with you? That she forgot her role as therapist and thought of herself as something else? I'm not catching the meaning of the phrase. And how long ago was her declaration? Have there been other boundary crossings since then?I feel like she was mind-f-cking me a bit on this.
> The flowers do seem very odd. If she wanted them right smack in the middle so she could be reminded of them, that's inappropriate because she's not fully paying attention to you. If she wanted them there in the middle either so you would ask her about them, or so you would know that somebody thought she was special enough to send her flowers, that's also inappropriate. Weird. You should ask her about it. It's very "grammar school" to draw attention to something and then say you can't talk about it.It's been two weeks--I see her weekly. So we'll see what's up next week.
> I wouldn't read too much into the sweater just yet, unless she wore it twice in one week. If it shows up again, I'd get suspicious. It'sMy only guess is that she knows there's some transference and attraction there and she enjoys it--consciously or not.
> Do you have other reasons to think she might be trying to entice you?
Posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 23:21:19
In reply to Re: Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed » Rigby, posted by Poet on October 3, 2003, at 16:06:17
Hi Poet,
I'll let you know what she wears next week! Man, it was so strange to see her twice in this really snug sweater after 18 months of TherapyWear!
> If she wears the sweater three weeks in a row it's not coincidence. Then again Carl Jung thought nothing is coincidence.I think so. Ugh. Yuck.
> The flowers placed where they were, to me, says "look at my pretty flowers. Aren't you jealous someone else likes me?" Very teenage girlish behavior in my opinion.I was going to bring in a bouquet next time and say nothing--just let it sit there and let her ask me questions and react the same way she did!!
> If she does the flower thing again, just look her in the eye and say "shouldn't those be on a table, so no one trips over them?"
Posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 23:27:18
In reply to Re: Flowers In Office/More/Opinions Needed » Rigby, posted by fallsfall on October 3, 2003, at 17:27:59
Hi Falls,
I think I will ask her about the flowers. Asking her about the sweater might be beyond me though!
> I think that the correct answer is that you should tell her what you have told us. It is possible that she is behaving inappropriately (and doesn't know it?), or you could be wishingShe absolutely did the flower thing--just as mentioned, not as wished. I hear you though--there have been times when I've wanted her to behave a certain way but in this case she simply *did.*
>that she would behave that way, or you could just be seeing things that aren't there. I don't know. But I think that in all three events, it would be best to talk about it with her.I've found her to be difficult to talk to when it comes to feeling uncomfortable about her. She acts defensively. To the point where I finally said, "Fine. You win. That's it. You're right" at which point she said, "Well, that sounds like a big f-you" and I said, "Well, yeah." And then she got all sullen and introspective and said, "I've never thought I was defensive." And then the next week she came back and apologized for not listening to me. So maybe she'll be better able to "hear" me if/when I confront her.
> That said, I don't know if I could bring it up (and I talk about most anything). You would want to bring it up sooner rather than later - later it might be much too emotional a topic to really explore. Sometimes you can bring up a
Posted by fallsfall on October 4, 2003, at 8:22:43
In reply to Re: Flowers In Office/More/-Falls, posted by Rigby on October 3, 2003, at 23:27:18
You could ask her if she's talked about boundaries with you in her supervision. You can also ask for a consultation with another therapist (or you can just go see someone else, which is what I did - it was very helpful).
Good luck.
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