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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by HannahW on September 24, 2003, at 21:10:37
I had my session today. We talked about the "wall" I throw up whenever I feel someone has rejected me. And that led to talking about rejection in general. This is a very soft and sensitive spot for me, and as she talked (she spent almost the whole time talking--shut UP already!) my body grew increasingly tense, and I felt more and more sick to my stomach.
How can I talk about rejection with someone who rejected me? (Before she was my therapist, just my pdoc, and I asked her out for coffee?) I know I'll have to talk to her about it, and I have, to some degree, but I certainly don't feel resolved. I'm actually a little ticked because I think she sees me as merely a patient, rather than a whole person.
Yuck. I wish she was more empathethic, rather than clinical. This could be a really emotional topic for me, and I imagine it's tough to be the only one in the room experiencing any emotion. I wish I felt like she actually cared. She helps me make good connections, and asks good questions, so I think she's a good therapist. But I never feel good when I leave her office. After she rejected me, I put up one of those walls so she won't have another opportunity to reject me, which I know is going to prevent me from connecting with her again. That could very well account for my not feeling good when I leave.
I had an impulse today to get up and walk out of her office, saying that I wasn't ready to talk about it. But that would be stupid. If we've touched on what may be the core of my depression, I need to face it. But can I face it with her? Experiencing the rejection from her is probably the best thing that could happen to me, therapy-wise, but it's so painful when she's directly involved, instead of me just telling her about other situations in which I've felt rejected.
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 24, 2003, at 22:21:21
In reply to I really don't want to talk about this, posted by HannahW on September 24, 2003, at 21:10:37
Hi Hannah..it's good that you're aware that the initial attempt to be a casual friend, and go out for coffee, is still affecting the way that you feel about her in sessions. I think you do have to discuss it, but there's also the larger question of whether you feel she is a good, empathic fit with you. Having had a poor fit with a previous therapist before my present analyst, with whom I am really "well-fitting", I do think it is crucial. I am embarrassed to admit that I remained for FOUR years with the previous one, even though I really knew something wasn't as it should be. I can't explain why I did that- it was as though I HAD to make it work.
The whole question of how one feels leaving a session: many times, I think, everyone does feel very shaken and upset, but I think that most times one should feel, not necessarily good, but that we are doing the right work in the right way with our therapists. It might have been stressful as hell, but it should also have some feeling of hope and rightness about it.The hardest times occur, for those of us who dissociate, when we have done just that, and don't have a self capable of relating to the therapist at that moment- leaving after those sessions can be excruciatingly lonely. From what you have said, it doesn't sound as though dissociating is an issue, at least for now- making a deep and meaningful connection to her is obviously paramount, as it should be when you are beginning therapy. You know I am always saying to follow your gut instincts- and you can see that I wish I had followed my own advice a lot sooner!
Pfinstegg
Posted by HannahW on September 25, 2003, at 14:51:52
In reply to Re: I really don't want to talk about this » HannahW, posted by Pfinstegg on September 24, 2003, at 22:21:21
Honestly, I don't know what my gut is telling me about her. When I think about how therapy might be easier with someone else, I'm also reminded that I am currently in the perfect situation to work through my issues. It would be nice if she felt more emotionally "there" rather than intellectually there, but a lot of people find it easier if their therapist doesn't give them warm fuzzies.
I don't know if my urge to run out the door is my gut saying this isn't right, or if it's just me being defensive and avoiding my issues. I love and hate therapy at the same time. I've been with other therapists over the years (always men) but they have never made me feel that they were getting too close to my tender spots. The fact that she's gotten there so quickly, after only 4 sessions, makes me think she's good. She may be both the best and the worst person in the world for me to talk about rejection with. The reasons for "best" and the "worst" is the same--my history with her. I'm having a really hard time differentiating between what my head, my heart, and my gut are telling me.
What was it that made you finally decide that your therapist wasn't right for you?
Posted by Pfinstegg on September 25, 2003, at 16:49:21
In reply to Re: I really don't want to talk about this » Pfinstegg, posted by HannahW on September 25, 2003, at 14:51:52
Oh, these things are so complicated, aren't they? With my previous therapist, it felt, from the beginning, that things were sort of superficial. But I think the real test is: are you getting better? I actually got worse with her, but feel I am really making progress with the analyst I have now. Things are very tough in his office, but increasingly satisfying and pleasurable outside. Also, I feel things much more deeply with him, and I think it's the emotional re-experiencing and re-learning which really is the way we get healthier. I've been going to him seven months.
As to your situation- because she has gotten right to the heart of things so quickly, maybe she's going to be good for you. I think a reasonable test is to have a feeling of rightness and the beginnings of improvement after about six months. If you still have real doubts and uncertainties by then, it might be time to re-evaluate.
Pfinstegg
Posted by Adia on September 25, 2003, at 17:32:02
In reply to I really don't want to talk about this, posted by HannahW on September 24, 2003, at 21:10:37
Dear Hannah,
Hi...
I just wanted to reach out and let you know I am thinking of you.
I have read what Pfinstegg has shared and I agree that maybe you can give her some more time to see if she's right for you..or not...
I am not quite sure..In my case I feel that I need my therapist to be emotionally there with me and to feel she cares and is involved and shows empathy...I don't feel I would be able to make progress at all, or share things if she wasn't like that. But I know not everyone needs the same...
I am not sure about your therapist, I would like you to feel she's more involved...
But maybe it's just a matter of building more trust and you will be able to make progress with her..
I guess I would try to explain to her how I'm feeling...what you have shared here...
I wouldn't want to keep all that to myself.
I hope you can soon start leaving the sessions feeling more hopeful...it concerns me that you say you never feel good after sessions..Have you shared that with her....?
I am thinking of you and I wish you the best with your therapy. I hope you can soon find out or feel sure in your heart if she's good for you or not.
Sending you my support,
Adia.> I had my session today. We talked about the "wall" I throw up whenever I feel someone has rejected me. And that led to talking about rejection in general. This is a very soft and sensitive spot for me, and as she talked (she spent almost the whole time talking--shut UP already!) my body grew increasingly tense, and I felt more and more sick to my stomach.
>
> How can I talk about rejection with someone who rejected me? (Before she was my therapist, just my pdoc, and I asked her out for coffee?) I know I'll have to talk to her about it, and I have, to some degree, but I certainly don't feel resolved. I'm actually a little ticked because I think she sees me as merely a patient, rather than a whole person.
>
> Yuck. I wish she was more empathethic, rather than clinical. This could be a really emotional topic for me, and I imagine it's tough to be the only one in the room experiencing any emotion. I wish I felt like she actually cared. She helps me make good connections, and asks good questions, so I think she's a good therapist. But I never feel good when I leave her office. After she rejected me, I put up one of those walls so she won't have another opportunity to reject me, which I know is going to prevent me from connecting with her again. That could very well account for my not feeling good when I leave.
>
> I had an impulse today to get up and walk out of her office, saying that I wasn't ready to talk about it. But that would be stupid. If we've touched on what may be the core of my depression, I need to face it. But can I face it with her? Experiencing the rejection from her is probably the best thing that could happen to me, therapy-wise, but it's so painful when she's directly involved, instead of me just telling her about other situations in which I've felt rejected.
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2003, at 17:52:00
In reply to I really don't want to talk about this, posted by HannahW on September 24, 2003, at 21:10:37
In my own experience, intimacy followed disclosure on my part. If you find that you have been completely open with her, yet she still feels distant and clinical. And if you examine yourself closely and make sure that you're not just thinking she's distant and clinical when really she's not, then you might want to think again about your relationship. I'm not sure it's possible to work through fears of rejection with someone incapable of giving you the opposite of rejection, acceptance. And not all therapists are capable of that...
Posted by Dinah on September 25, 2003, at 17:56:31
In reply to Re: I really don't want to talk about this » HannahW, posted by Dinah on September 25, 2003, at 17:52:00
Actually, my experience was that disclosure on my part was followed by a period of turbulence and discord, and then intimacy. I'm a stubborn soul, though, and I always had faith in my therapist. Faith that was borne out in the end.
Posted by Eggy on September 28, 2003, at 21:04:17
In reply to Re: I really don't want to talk about this » Pfinstegg, posted by HannahW on September 25, 2003, at 14:51:52
You Say..."I've been with other therapists over the years (always men) but they have never made me feel that they were getting too close to my tender spots. The fact that she's gotten there so quickly, after only 4 sessions, makes me think she's good."
I say...I can feel your confusion more than you will ever know. The statement above are the words I have been trying to spit out of my mouth for weeks! My "old" therapist (which I may go back to) was awesome but never did "get there". He was really good but just didn't go to those places that I needed to go. I have seen this female therapist 3 times and she is so good. I walk in and she is pulling words out of me like pages in a book. Things I need to talk about and have needed to talk about for years; she just opens her mouth and out comes the conversation. And I really do think she is a great therapist but, I have never felt so depressed. I leave her office so sad. I can't function at home. I can't eat. I am going downhill so fast. I don't know if it is because I am talking about things that hurt or I am not ready to face that yet.
So like you I have to consider whether the relationship with my new therapist is helping me or not. Is this what I need? Am I staying for the right reasons? We both know that our new therapist is really really good. It is how we feel when we are not with them that matters.
I wish you all the luck. ~~This whole therapist thing is like picking a puppy out of a litter of 20. You never know what your going to get. And if you go back to trade it for another one, all the good ones are gone!~~
Posted by bucky on October 3, 2003, at 6:38:53
In reply to I really don't want to talk about this, posted by HannahW on September 24, 2003, at 21:10:37
Hannah----first off, good work that you are staying so true to your "gut" feelings, as confusing as they may be sometimes. When you mentioned that you feel sick to your stomach after your sessions, well....that's a lotta information. I think our body "radar" picks up on what does and does not resonate for us. I agree that giving this gal a few more goes at it, or even telling her what bodily sensations you are experiencing after working with her may open a door. If not, your tummy will continue to crawl into fetal position inside of you and broadcast out to you the "this doesn't feel right" sense of the whole relationship. These things take time and require us to practice some patience and the ability to just "hang out" with ambiguous feelings that arise. I have been in therapy with many different folks over the last 20 years. And finding a good fit is a gift to be celebrated. Sometimes difficult relationships at first end up evolving into good fits. But if that clenched gut/queasy feeling continues, take from one who put up with that for TWO years before breaking from one therapist. She just wasn't for me, no slight meant towards her. I kept thinking my issues were being "lit up" around her, and that is why my gut tweaked. Came to find out, no, I just didn't feel safe or properly partnered with this gal. I wish you luck here...you will find someone to help you deal with that "soft spot" inside that we all have, whether you call it your core stuff or inner child, whatever. And yes, all the abandonment/rejection stuff will come floating up, because these things "guard the castle" so to speak. Wish you the best....stay true to yourself and what your body tells you.
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