![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 26 to 50 of 50. Go back in thread:
Posted by rayww on September 8, 2004, at 23:34:19
In reply to Re: Suicide 2 » rayww, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 8, 2004, at 21:35:59
PTSD_girl, thankyou for your kind reply. I can't give you advice on visiting the church in your neighborhood, but I encourage you to do so. I would hope they would have access to resources that might provide the support you are in need of.
We have an open door policy in our church and if there is one in your neighborhood it is easy to find using this link.
http://www.mormon.org/question/worship/extended/1,17893,3843-1-COUNTRY-UNITED+STATES,00.htmlWhen I needed help I visited my bishop and my doctor. It was the combination of spiritual direction and medical advice that helped me the most. Sometimes we need and need and need and it is so wonderful to have a Bishop who is responsible to you. He is considered the Father of the ward, and acts in God's name. Priesthood blessings have saved many lives. Bishops are assigned geographical areas, so everyone in and out of the church actually has one.
Posted by verne on September 9, 2004, at 0:01:23
In reply to Re: Suicide 2 » PTSD_Girl, posted by rayww on September 8, 2004, at 23:34:19
this is an advertisement for the mormon church. When will the commercials and spam stop?
verne
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 9, 2004, at 3:01:26
In reply to Re: Suicide » PTSD_Girl, posted by rayww on September 8, 2004, at 11:11:03
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 9:03:39
In reply to Re: Suicide 2 » rayww, posted by verne on September 9, 2004, at 0:01:23
verne,
You wrote,[...when will the commercials and the spam stop?...].
Could you redirect your question to the admin. board? If it is posted there, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 9, 2004, at 10:08:48
In reply to Re: Suicide 2 » rayww, posted by verne on September 9, 2004, at 0:01:23
verne, I have always liked to document my words with official doctrine. I use the church's web site because I love it and it has been created to be used as such. It is a marvelous resource in so many ways. I am sorry you don't see it. I have no reason to "advertise" for the mormon faith, but if there is anything in my belief that can help others I'll share in a moment.
People of my faith believe in the law of witnesses. In other words, there cannot arise a single original thought that doesn't also have a witness, or another person to verify it. It is my style, after I have "created" an original thought to include the scripture reference that comes to mind afterward. It gets back to the theory that answers to all life's problems can be found in scripture.
If I was familiar with other religion's writings, I assure you I would quote from them as well. My understanding and knowledge is limited to barely a HighSchool diploma, no college, not even an avid reader, can't focus on studying, the like. I am an artsy type, who learns through the spirit. I love to explore my own thought and create new ways of expression. When that expression can be verified by someone else's thought it makes me feel good. I don't write just to feel good, but it is part of it. I find it very theraputic.
Advertising would come from the other direction, outside in, rather than inside out. Wouldn't it? Don't advertisers try to hit us from the outside and then make it penetrate in? I try to connect to the inside of people. Spirit to spirit, because that is how I learn, teach, and communicate best. At best I am still a poor communicator.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 19:38:54
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 7, 2004, at 7:12:10
> So, what do you all think is the punishment for taking your own life? Because God is a just God, I can't believe that we can destroy the gift He has given us without some sort of repercussions. I still don't think we would lose our relationship with our Father, but maybe I'm horribly wrong.
>
> I believe the Bible says that we "earn" crowns for different actions on our part here in this world. Maybe God's punishment for suicide is to withdraw some crowns? Maybe I would live on the outskirts of town instead of with everyone else!! *laugh* Seriously, though, I think that maybe the result of killing one's own body is a lose of certain privledges??
>
> Any ideas on this?
>
> PTSD_GirlPTSD_Girl,
You asked,[...any ideas on this?...].
Let me start by saying what I see is important in this discussion.
A. What happens to you if you commit suicide
B. What happens to others that have already committed suicide
C. What does christiandom say about this in terms of its bible and their interpretations of what they say about suicide since you have written that,[...I believe the bible...].
D. What has been revealed to me about suicide.
Lou
>
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 19:56:15
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 7, 2004, at 7:12:10
PTSD,
First, the bible does talk about suicide. It has examples of persons committing suicide. But as to what happens to them, which is the point of the discussion as I see it, is a topic that bible people are divided on. Some bible groups have those that commit suicide assigned to hell for torment for all eternity. Some bible groups have them assigned to hell for a period of time that is not eternal. Some groups say that their suicde is not a determining factor as to their eternal consequenses for them. Some bible groups have combinations of the above and some have something different from the above.
At your request, I could discuss biblical passages that speak to suicide . I am not a member of christiandom , but I can read the passage from your bible and give you what I can have any revelation to.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 20:02:01
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 7, 2004, at 7:12:10
PTSD,
The topic of what has happened to those that have already committed suicde could be relevant at some time, but I think that it could be more productive in this discussion to focus on arriving at something for you to have an answer to because it is you that are concerned.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 20:30:28
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 7, 2004, at 7:12:10
PTSD_Girl,
Last, is what has been revealed to me about suicide, in perspective to your concerns about what would happen to you, as to rerwards in heaven as such as you have written, if you committed suicide.
Lou
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 21:04:05
In reply to Lou's reply to PTSD_Girl -SU4 » PTSD_Girl, posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 20:30:28
PTSD_Girl,
I can only tell you what has been revealed to me. First, it has been revealed to me that ther is life after death. When I had my faith experiance, I was visited by a Rider on a White Horse. There was a discussion and He turned to me and said, "Have hope toward God, for there will be a resurrection of the dead. God Himself will dwell with them and shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow or crying, neither shall there be any more pain, for the former things have passed away and he that overcomes will inherit all things, and I will be His God and he shall be my son.".
Lou
Posted by tai daluna on September 10, 2004, at 4:46:54
In reply to Re: Suicide 2 » rayww, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 8, 2004, at 21:35:59
it sounds to me that you are really suffering right now. i too suffer from agonizing, enduring ptsd... i know that it helps me to go to holy places when i am hurting badly. eventho i am not christian, i have taken refuge in christian churches, as well as other holy places too (temples, etc). sometimes i just need sanctuary; a place to rest the weight that i carry. i recently was prayed over by a minister at a church during a particularly terrible time for me. i went there wanting to do drugs again, or cut myself, or hook-- anything to answer the powerlessness and rage i felt-- but the next morning i awoke as if reborn, refreshed.
you do not have to carry the weight of your history alone. it was not your fault. it is alright to ask someone, to ask god, to come into you and fill you with love, and to keep you safe.
i have attempted suicide multiple times and been in the hospital for it, but that was a long time ago: now i can hardly think of it, because people do really love me, and i am sure that people do really love you too. i know now when i need sanctuary, and can ask for it. i hope if you did, maybe it would help you like it helps me sometimes.
imho, it is not so wrong to be alive for others. i am alive for those around me to love, and so that i may love. that is my purpose here. i am not sure what the other purpose is? perhaps others have different purposes, but at the core, that is why i live. when i am in the dark of ptsd hell, this consoles me. that i love. i love. i love. i make it a mantra. it was what i am good at; that and music.
i am thinking of you, and praying for your safe passage through these times.
peace.
tai
Posted by Dr. Bob on September 10, 2004, at 10:33:59
In reply to Lou's response to verne's post » verne, posted by Lou Pilder on September 9, 2004, at 9:03:39
> Could you redirect your question to the admin. board?
Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20040902/msgs/388658.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by Jai Narayan on September 10, 2004, at 13:33:27
In reply to plese call your church, posted by tai daluna on September 10, 2004, at 4:46:54
Posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 15:28:26
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 7, 2004, at 7:12:10
I think you are correct when you say we may lose crowns. The Bible refers to crowns of glory. http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=bodies+celestial&search.x=31&search.y=10 which indicates there is more to heaven than one degree of glory.
You believe "in" Christ, but do you also "believe" Christ, and trust His word? Trust life, and know that you were placed in a situation that you could handle/deal with/master. There is important, eternal reasons for being. People of my faith believe we started exercising our right of choice long before we were born. (referenced earlier in this thread)
Some religions worship the spirit of mother earth, the sun, moon, and stars. Some have discovered ways of communicating with natural things. All things are possible. Explore new thought and see where it takes you. Begin with your own religion, and try talking to those nearest to you.
If you have sincere questions, you will find the answers. God loves and cares for the sparrow, and He will most certainly care for His children. (who) Come unto Him in sincere prayer...... "having faith in Christ, and He will manifest His truth unto you by the power of the Holy Ghost, and by the power of the Holy Ghost you may know the truth of all things."
I firmly believe God will hear your prayers and help you find help and answers. Being in heaven separated from God's presence would not be very much fun, even if it only lasted 2000 years. No one knows the whole answer to your question because only God knows your circumstances. Trust in something.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2004, at 16:44:32
In reply to Re: Suicide » PTSD_Girl, posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 15:28:26
rayww,
You wrote,[...God loves and cares for the sparrriw, and He will...care for His children.(who)Come unto Him in sincere prayer..."having faith in Christ....].
Could you clarify if you are saying:
It is necessary to have faith in Christ for God to come unto someone?
If you could, then i could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 18:39:03
In reply to Lou's request for clarification » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2004, at 16:44:32
You always ask good questions Lou, but they are not easy to answer. If I would have said God cares for the sparrow and He will care for His children, someone may have questioned the suffering going on in the world.
People of my faith don't separate God from Christ or the Holy Ghost in prayer. We approach God the Father through the spirit (Holy Ghost), having faith in Christ. "Our Father in Heaven, da da da da, In the Name of Jesus Christ, Amen.
God can come unto anyone He chooses whether one has faith in Christ or not, but without faith they may not see, hear, or understand. God is ever near to every one, yet some will feel His presence, and others will deny His existance.
There is an example in scripture when God spoke and some heard the message distinctly while others thought they heard a wind, and some heard nothing. (I can't find it!)
The only accounts that I'm aware of in the Bible where people actually heard the voice of God "the Father" from the heavens have been to introduce His Son. http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=%22this+is+my+beloved+son%22&search.x=31&search.y=10
You heard a voice and saw a messenger who was riding a white horse. Whose voice did you hear?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2004, at 18:47:14
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification, posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 18:39:03
rayww,
You wrote,[...God can come into anyone He chooses whether one has faith in Christ or not, but without faith , they may not see hear or understand...].
Are you saying that God could come into a person {but if tht person does not have faith in Christ} that he may not hear, see or understand?
If ypoucould clarify that for me, then I could respond accordingly.
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 22:05:33
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification2 » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on September 10, 2004, at 18:47:14
"unto"
For me, yes I would say faith in Christ because that is how people of my faith believe, but for a person who has another definition of God, I would say faith in God.From what I observe, God works in the life of everyone through their own understanding and knowledge and language. We will be judged mercifully according to our circumstances and the law we know. How else could God be just or merciful?
Thankfully, resurrection doesn't happen the minute we die. There is a space between death and resurrection. So if a person dies without law, they will have a chance to prepare accordingly. That space will be longer for some than for others. suicide will fit in there somewhere, as will everything else. But the resurrection is final. So the more we can do now to prepare to meet God, the better off we will be then. At least, that is what I assume I believe. Or what I of my own faith believe. The best way to prepare is first of all, stay here and keep trying to do your best with what you have, and don't be afraid to approach God.
Lou are you trying to believe in Christ?
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 7:25:20
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification2 » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 22:05:33
rayww,
You wrote,[...there is a space between death and ressurection...if a person dies without law...].
Are you saying:
A. there is a space of time between death and the ressurection of the body of a person?
B. There is a space in time between death and the ressurection of the spirit of a person.
C. There is a space of time between both the resurrection of the body and the spirit of a person.
D. People are resurrected to be given a second chance to obey the laws of God .
E. something else which is...
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 11, 2004, at 10:47:12
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification3 » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 7:25:20
First of all Lou, I have to say you reallly liven things up here on PBF. I am glad you are back.
> rayww,
> You wrote,[...there is a space between death and ressurection...if a person dies without law...].
> Are you saying:
> A. there is a space of time between death and the ressurection of the body of a person?
> B. There is a space in time between death and the ressurection of the spirit of a person.
> C. There is a space of time between both the resurrection of the body and the spirit of a person.
> D. People are resurrected to be given a second chance to obey the laws of God .
> E. something else which is...
> LouIn answer to your question Lou: people of my faith believe
E. something else which is,
Resurrection means restoration. Complete 100% restoration of a whole person, not missing even a hair on their head. Restored, reunited, inseparably connected, spirit to body of a person. The second chance will come in the space between death and resurrection (spirit). You will always be you, so take care of yourself today while it is called today. Today by definition is the day for men to prepare to meet God.How can this be? Was the tombe of Jesus empty after 3 days? Were the graves opened and were people seen being raised from the dead at that time? Yes, on both continents.http://scriptures.lds.org/gsg/grave
Did David's remains remain? Yes, because he was not yet permitted resurrection because of his plot to murder Uraiah in order to marry Bathsheba.http://scriptures.lds.org/query?words=bathsheba&search.x=31&search.y=10
I find it comforting to know that even David is promised not to be left in hell forever. His space will be seriously longer than most, about 4000 years of our time, or longer. It is interesting to note that David and Bathsheba are the ancestors of Christ, proving we all have skeletons in our closets. (no pun intended) although maybe that is where that saying stemmed from, who knows?Frankly Lou, I look at the New Testament as evidence and witnesses of the reality and divinity of Jesus Christ because of his resurrection from the dead. Count me a believer.
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:20:05
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification2 » Lou Pilder, posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 22:05:33
rayww, You wrote,[...if a person dies {without law}, they will have a chance to prepare...].
Could you clarify the following? If you could, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What is {the law} that people could die {without}?
B. What is this { chance} and what do they do to {prepare} and what are they preparing for?
Lou
Posted by rayww on September 11, 2004, at 20:03:41
In reply to Re: Lou's request for clarification4 LW » rayww, posted by Lou Pilder on September 11, 2004, at 13:20:05
Law=covenants
Chance=opportunity on earth or in another space provided.
How=repent
What for = eternal life in the presence of God
Covenant = agreement between God and man
Opportunity = something in your face that you can either choose to look at or ignore
Repent = overcome temptation and change behavior
Temptation = wanting to do wrong when you know better
Wrong = unlimited definitions to choose from, quest to find the right one.
Be true to yourself, once you are satisfied with your definition of right and wrong.
Right = to do what God would have you do
God = Jesus Christ, God the Father, and the Holy GhostI can see the definitions and clarifications could go on forever in circles. People of my faith honor the whole Abrahamic covenant. We look forward, as you do, to its fulfillment.
Posted by PTSD_Girl on September 13, 2004, at 21:12:52
In reply to Re: Suicide » PTSD_Girl, posted by rayww on September 10, 2004, at 15:28:26
I have been speaking with a pastor about suicide. He believes that "suicide is an evil presence or spirit that can work, possibly with other lieing spirits, to contrary the truth and counsel of the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. Thus there is often a lot of lies and deceit that one "believes" as truth and these take them captive leading to despair, destruction, and hopelessness. The spiritual battle is the Holy Spirit within you working against these lieing destroying spirits to get you to believe His counsel to you and not theirs. This war is raging within you now and these forces of darkness have further isolated and insulated you"
Posted by rayww on September 14, 2004, at 9:26:20
In reply to Re: Suicide, posted by PTSD_Girl on September 13, 2004, at 21:12:52
That is a good explanation of the battle we face within, but lest we forget, we are stronger than evil. Sometimes all we have to do is lift ourselves just a little, and as soon as we make the attempt we discover forces beyond our own are there to help carry us. It has been said that there is lift in opposition (law of aeronautics). It is true in spiritual matters as well.
What things do you use to lift yourself? Anything that "touches" reality will do. Smile at a child. Spend 10 minutes in each room of your house (or area of interest) doing all you can, and move on to the next when the timer beeps. Be kind to a person who is close to you. Welcome the sunshine. Eat something healthy. The list is endless. Breathe, and feel your breath. Do a little exercise. Have a hot bath and pamper yourself. Write a story and make a happy ending.
When you write a story anything you want to can happen in it, and it gives you something to read later on. I like to write about emotional pain and help the person in the story work their way through it in unique ways. This is a form of journaling, where you are actually writing about your own life and pain, but hiding behind another character, and mixing truth with fiction. You can draw amazing characters from people you already know, exagerating whatever you want. I'm no writer, but certainly have fun with that one.
Just pick an emotion and run with it. Jump on a motorcycle and run away from the city, and see where you end up. Or run into the eye of a storm. Start with a dream, or put a dream in the middle of a story. I'm rambling here because last night I sat and read a few of my own and decided they weren't all that bad after all. I feel the most lift in the really bad ones, the ones that succeed in releasing the most emotional pain. Strange, I haven't had a lot of that deep emotional pain since I last wrote. What does that say?
Keep in mind that I am a person of faith, who clings to Jesus Christ through daily prayer and scriptures. That is the most sure way of overcoming and lifting ourselves away from despair. Without that hope, there might not be lift in opposition. I don't know because I have never been without that aspect of life. But I know God is no respector of persons, and what He says to one He says to all, so what is available to me is available to everyone, and it is very real. When I say touch something, I also mean touch God and He will be there to lift you over your despair.
Posted by corafree on October 16, 2004, at 16:17:55
In reply to Re: Suicide » PTSD_Girl, posted by rayww on September 14, 2004, at 9:26:20
I felt suicidal last evening and it carried on to this midday Sat. I have PTSD and have been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. I thank god I have no psychotic features. I also have no feelings of hurting anyone, that is except me. I have just begun DBT, therapy to help me discern what my emotions are doing for me,...just now beginning to understand that they may be doing or showing me something good, not bad. Your sharing is so true. The things I am thinking when I am suicidal are like 'lying to myself'. That's when I pray to denounce evil and for God, Jesus, and my father who passed away months ago, to be in me, walk for me, talk for me, think for me. I am not to the point that you are tho' w/ this clear understanding of these lies we are telling ourselves or evil is telling us. If uncomfortable do not, but my email is [xxx], and I would like it if you would share a funny story. It begins with a mother wanting to be a part of her first child's birth and the child becoming angry because she is just trying so hard that she is doing and saying all the wrong things. Then a boyfriend comes to see her and she hopes it will be a comforting evening. Instead, it gets to a point where he gathers his things, and slams her door behind him.
That's what brought on these feelings. I've lost a lot since my father died...he was my best friend and the person I loved the most in life. The rest of my fam of origin have somewhat deserted me in my grief and just plain in my life, because, they haven't experienced a mental illness, don't want to admit someone in their fam' suffers from one, and were a bit jealous of the relationship I had with my father. Forgive me if your PTSD has anything to do w/ one of your parents, as it may draw you away a bit from my story. I have three grown children that are successful and strong. Only one is my advocate. She is gone for the weekend. I do have one friend I can talk w/ but she spends weekends w/ her fiance. The birth of the daughter that just had a baby brought back so many painful memories to me...maybe they misdirected my intentions. I'm wondering if my feeling of rejection from she and this boyfriend are signs, a sign that my daughter and her boyfriend can make a life w/o me, and that this man is not for me, and if that is so I should celebrate that I have learned that early,...but instead I am a whimpering 'nobody loves me' mess! Thank you for your posts. Glad I found them this Sat. best wishes corafree
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Faith | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.org
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.